Obama Extends Drone Assassinations to Somalia
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/30/us-drone-strikes-somalia

Quote :

"I intend to remove all U.S. troops from Iraq by the end of 2011. —President Obama, February 27, 2009"

That deadline is about to come and go with thousands of active duty still there, perhaps to stay until 2013.

Total War Cost: $4.4 Trillion

We are currently at war in six countries: Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia.

I think the cost of these operations is about $1 billion per day. It's very difficult to find studies that keep up with this amount of escalation.

[Edited on July 25, 2011 at 8:22 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2011 8:12:47 PM

The beginning tone of his speech tonight is more of the same its all Bush's fault and none of it is mine.

7/25/2011 9:07:34 PM

haha

John Boehner just introduced his job as if no one had ever heard of it before

7/25/2011 9:19:52 PM

I've never posted in Soap Box as far as I believe. There has been zero progress from both sides, both holding on to their own plans and no compromise, both are right and both are wrong. Democrats can't have all the programs they want, and Republicans can't cut everything right away. I'm very frustrated by all of this and just want some real progress made.

7/25/2011 9:30:02 PM

Quote :

"John Boehner just introduced his job as if no one had ever heard of it before"

I loved at the end of his speech, Shepard Smith just goes "bi-partisan support? I guess by bi-partisan support he means 5 Democrats"

7/25/2011 10:17:14 PM

Quote :

"both holding on to their own plans and no compromise"

You're half right.


(D): Raise the debt ceiling, no strings attached
(R): Nope
(D): Okay

(D): We'll accept spending cuts along with raising the debt ceiling, but we need revenue, too.
(R): Nope
(D): Okay

(D): Here's our plan to raise the debt ceiling, cut spending, without revenue
(R): Nope
(D): Hrmmm.

7/25/2011 10:21:11 PM

I can't wait to see what kind of half-baked compromise comes out in the eleventh hour.

7/25/2011 10:40:24 PM

It's certain to be the worst of all possible worlds.

7/25/2011 10:42:24 PM

I guarantee you taxes will not be raised which means the republicans are playing obama like the puppet he is yet again. They get whatever they want. Long live Chancellor Boehner.

7/25/2011 10:46:18 PM

Quote :

"I guarantee you taxes will not be raised which means the republicans are playing obama like the puppet he is yet again. They get whatever they want. Long live Chancellor Boehner."

What else is he supposed to do? He is trying to take it public and sway their opinion by moving through the people. I kind of want him to just play hardball now and see what happens.

7/25/2011 11:39:10 PM

He's supposed to play his role as the last man and veto and call their bluff, put them in line and make them play the role of congress while he plays the veto role. So far its been the other way around.

Boehner truly believes he is in charge. The speakers job is to bring forth legislation that can be approved by the president. Instead they are bringing what they want and telling the president this is what it is take it or let the country go to shit.

7/25/2011 11:43:20 PM

He should veto, the GOP will take all of the blame.

Why do they refuse to increase taxes on the top 1%? is their some corruption there?

7/25/2011 11:45:41 PM

its not corruption at all. As a matter of fact, the republicans are as transparent as glass and are simply doing what they promised they would do, having their lips read.

The corruption is in the minds of the people who vote republican for reasons I don't understand. Poor people vote republican to keep gays from getting married, even if it means the country goes to shit they are fine as long as gays don't hold marriage licenses.

7/25/2011 11:58:28 PM

This is a very conservative country with a very strong Christian base. That is going to be hard to change when people believe that they will go to hell if they don't follow God's wishes. Damn hard considering that they outnumber the logical types.

Like JUST LOOK AT FUCKING ENGLAND! Do the Gays run everything over there? What in the hell do the conservatives think is going to happen, rape little boys?

I am 90% certain that I will just GTFO and go to Europe after graduate school.

7/26/2011 12:05:01 AM

And why exactly is raising taxes a requirement for the country to not go to shit? Was not federal spending at the level of 2007 (which would balance the budget) good enough to run the country and wage two wars?

Democrats want to tax the rich just because they are jealous. Republicans are merely in favor of good policy on this issue. Meanwhile, the Republicans want to ban gay marriage because they are jealous. Democrats are merely in favor of good policy on this issue.

And if Obama vetoes the only bill that could prevent things from going to shit, then I will personally blame him if things go to shit. What good would it do that the Republicans would feel bad about their actions after things have gone to shit? Are you that spiteful that you would rather kill us all than suffer a gay person to marry, I mean, a rich person to keep his income?

7/26/2011 12:05:02 AM

Quote :

"Democrats want to tax the rich just because they are jealous. Republicans are merely in favor of good policy on this issue."

Not True. Dems want to improve health care and GOP doesn't want anything to do with giving more tax dollars to "immigrants" and blacks. But, obviously, they are the scapegoats. As has been pointed out, the amount that the wealthy get taxed is not fair to the lower mid class. Too many loopholes. You may disagree with me all you want about aiding the poor, but they are the working class. They get screwed over by the system, not the rich.

[Edited on July 26, 2011 at 12:13 AM. Reason : sd]

7/26/2011 12:11:53 AM

It would be as simple as you think if the proportion of old people wasn't ever increasing. This is about making the old and poor foot the bill for our problems out of the money they need to survive or the rich making disposable income or not.

Its not like there is enough money to pay for all these programs and democrats just want to increase them with the money of the rich. There isn't enough money to pay for these programs and the democrats want to keep them with money from the rich.

Quote :

"Are you that spiteful that you would rather kill us all than suffer a gay person to marry, I mean, a rich person to keep his income?"

Things would be much better in the long term if we could go ahead and set republicans straight right now or purge them out of the government via public opinion.

7/26/2011 12:12:45 AM

Quote :

"The speakers job is to bring forth legislation that can be approved by the president."

Then why even have a Congress? Just let the President make up the laws, because surely he would approve them if he made them. what a stupid fucking argument. We have the two branches involved for a reason: they don't agree, it doesn't get passed. One is not a fucking rubber stamp for the other.

Quote :

"Damn hard considering that they outnumber the logical types."

Demonizing a large segment of the population doesn't help you win elections. I'm just saying...

Quote :

"Dems want to improve health care"

BULLSHIT. They want to CONTROL health care. there's a fucking difference.

Quote :

"As has been pointed out, the amount that the wealthy get taxed is not fair to the lower mid class"

How the fuck do you figure? What is "fair"? The top 1% are paying 30% of the god damn taxes! What the fuck is fair? 95%? 105%?

Quote :

"This is about making the old and poor foot the bill for our problems out of the money they need to survive or the rich making disposable income or not. "

In some respects, the old helped create the mess we are in by voting for all of these entitlements. Democrats like to champion them as some poor group of people who had no control over their lot, but they made their god damned bed, and ours, too!

Quote :

"Its not like there is enough money to pay for all these programs and democrats just want to increase them with the money of the rich. There isn't enough money to pay for these programs and the democrats want to keep them with money from the rich. "

No, the problem is that EVEN WITH THE MONEY FROM THE RICH, we can't afford this shit.

7/26/2011 1:26:46 AM

Quote :

"Then why even have a Congress? Just let the President make up the laws, because surely he would approve them if he made them. what a stupid fucking argument. We have the two branches involved for a reason: they don't agree, it doesn't get passed. One is not a fucking rubber stamp for the other."

no the president can't make laws the congress makes laws that the president would find acceptable. This means everything should end up on the right end of obama's acceptability spectrum, not outside of it and not in the middle either.

Quote :

" BULLSHIT. They want to CONTROL health care. there's a fucking difference."

Both of you are wrong. They want to spread health care to more people.

Quote :

"How the fuck do you figure? What is "fair"? The top 1% are paying 30% of the god damn taxes! What the fuck is fair? 95%? 105%"

Fair is to cover everyones basic needs before you start giving people money for a 3rd yacht and 2nd vacation home.

Quote :

"In some respects, the old helped create the mess we are in by voting for all of these entitlements"

Entitlements are actually a good thing and a marker of a first world society.

Quote :

"No, the problem is that EVEN WITH THE MONEY FROM THE RICH, we can't afford this shit."

Thats why a balance of budget cuts, reform and tax hikes are required. Get rid of the wars, Spay the military, raise the SS age, close tax loop holes, increase the progressiveness of taxes and raise taxes all together.

7/26/2011 2:06:01 AM

Quote :

"What the fuck is fair? 95%? "

Actually, at this rate someone making 10 million a year would still have a take home pay 15 times greater then the average income in the nation.

7/26/2011 4:00:32 AM

Quote :

"How the fuck do you figure? What is "fair"? The top 1% are paying 30% of the god damn taxes! What the fuck is fair? 95%? 105%"

also, the top 1% make 23.5% of the income of the country.

ALSO, since SS taxes are capped and some other federal taxes are capped, the top 1% only pay somewhere between 22.5 and 29% the share of federal taxes. that certainly seems fair considering the amount they're getting paid.

links:
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2908
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/18/michele-bachmann/michele-bachmann-says-top-1-percent-pay-40-percent/

[Edited on July 26, 2011 at 8:08 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on July 26, 2011 at 8:11 AM. Reason : their they're]

7/26/2011 8:07:40 AM

We don't need more revenue. Certainly the poor can make do with $3 trillion a year. You just need to make it happen. Slash the military and remove the rich from SS and Medicare payrolls. That would free up plenty of money to balance to budget and pay for whatever the progressives want to do.

Taxes distort the economy. Eliminating entitlements do not. As such, raise the money by eliminating the entitlements of the rich !

7/26/2011 8:17:50 AM

Quote :

"I loved at the end of his speech, Shepard Smith just goes "bi-partisan support? I guess by bi-partisan support he means 5 Democrats""

Wow...someone must not remember El Presidente and Madame Speaker claiming how bipartisan the Obamacare vote was in the House...all because ONE Republican voted for it (that would be former Representative Joseph Cao, or NOL).

So, by the Democratic definition, they had BROAD bipartisan support.

7/26/2011 8:57:34 AM

Quote :

"Democrats want to tax the rich just because they are jealous. Republicans are merely in favor of good policy on this issue. "

How is it good policy? How in the fuck can you say/type this with a straight face? Tax rates on the rich have NEVER been lower in this country. According to Republican thinking we should be in an economic boom. But we aren't. The only part of their stupid theory that came true was that businesses are making more money. US corporate profits have never been higher, yet unemployment is getting worse and the US government is about to default on it's debt. What's wrong here? Why can't people see that Republican economic policy is flawed to the point of being an outright FACTUAL LIE.

[Edited on July 26, 2011 at 9:54 AM. Reason : :]

7/26/2011 9:54:24 AM

Quote :

"BULLSHIT. They want to CONTROL health care. there's a fucking difference"

Look, the conservatives can debate all they want about welfare and SS, because there is some major issues in those programs. But I don't see how you can argue against a national health care plan that gives americans a basic level of health insurance. Sure, if you want to pay extra for a premium package then go for it. But the fact that many working american do not have health care is a little absurd, don't you think?

I am all for Obamacare 100%: It is a step in the right direction and we should as a people insure that it sticks around. Now, if you want to argue about welfare then fine, but don't lump the two together as they are different entirely.

Honestly, I think that welfare for the most part propagates poverty and provides people with a means to survive so that they can limp along; it needs major adjustment.

7/26/2011 10:04:30 AM

Quote :

"Wow...someone must not remember El Presidente and Madame Speaker claiming how bipartisan the Obamacare vote was in the House...all because ONE Republican voted for it (that would be former Representative Joseph Cao, or NOL). So, by the Democratic definition, they had BROAD bipartisan support."

bait and switch. republicans ruined the bill by incorporating thier compromises into it and then didn't even vote for it. we could've actually had a solid single payer system (the real obamacare) but instead we got compramisecare

7/26/2011 10:06:33 AM

You have to give the guy credit.

So far he's threatened to veto everything Boehner has managed to pass in the House.

7/26/2011 3:38:27 PM

Quote :

"In 2009, the median net worth of white households was $113,149, compared with $6,325 for Hispanics and $5,677 for blacks. That gap is about twice as large as the 1 to 10 white-to-minority wealth ratio that prevailed during the two decades before the recession. "

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0726/Wealth-gap-widens-Whites-net-worth-is-20-times-that-of-blacks

7/26/2011 7:03:56 PM

Obama's going to do to the GOP what he did to the Somali pirates and bin Laden.

7/26/2011 7:07:17 PM

Who would have thought after all the tea party bitching over the past few years, it would be the Conservatives to pussy-foot around solving the debt issues? in the back of my mind, i think i believed they were serious that their issues were not political, but practical, but it's pretty obvious now they have just been practicing spineless electioneering this whole time.

7/26/2011 7:15:13 PM

Quote :

"Both of you are wrong. They want to spread health care to more people. "

If they actually wanted to do that, then they'd stop doing things that only make it more expensive.

Quote :

"Fair is to cover everyones basic needs"

That's not the job of the gov't.

Quote :

"Entitlements are actually a good thing"

Is that why we can't afford them?

Quote :

"But I don't see how you can argue against a national health care plan that gives americans a basic level of health insurance."

Then you aren't fucking looking. As well, you aren't comprehending that INSURANCE doesn't give you HEALTH CARE. If you still can't pay the doctor, then your insurance is just a boat anchor.

Quote :

"But the fact that many working american do not have health care is a little absurd, don't you think?"

Considering that they still have access to it, no, I don't think it's absurd. Many working Americans choose not to buy insurance or to budget for healthcare. I have no sympathy for them.

7/26/2011 7:27:33 PM

Quote :

"If they actually wanted to do that, then they'd stop doing things that only make it more expensive."

Making everyone buy it makes it cheaper. It may make it more expensive for you because you want more than just basic coverage. Your job may make it more expensive also, because private companies have become greedy in this country.

Quote :

"That's not the job of the gov't."

blank liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Quote :

"Is that why we can't afford them?"

Affording them and wanting to afford them are two diffferent things.

Quote :

"Many working Americans choose not to buy insurance or to budget for healthcare. I have no sympathy for them."

So you rather just let people die on the streets? No thanks. I want a civilized first world society. You should move to Haiti or Somalia.

Healthcare should be the responsibility of employers but we know the corporate culture in the US has become way to greedy to entrust them with a responsibility that large. We can no longer relie on the private industry to do anything besides turn a profit.

7/26/2011 7:44:54 PM

I don't even know where to begin. You need to be educated. If prosperity was as easy as creating legislation than mandated that everyone have everything they need, wouldn't the whole world be prosperous?

7/26/2011 7:51:37 PM

We can no longer relie on the private industry government to do anything besides turn a profit take our liberty.

7/26/2011 7:59:32 PM

Quote :

"I don't even know where to begin. You need to be educated. If prosperity was as easy as creating legislation than mandated that everyone have everything they need, wouldn't the whole world be prosperous?"

No its just easier said than done. Just like ts impossible to implement pure communism because some will always refuse to give up more than their fair share. We can try our best to make sure everyone has just enough to make it though. That is a lot easier and accomplished with flying colors in the best nations of the world. IT really is that simple for everyone to have what they need but there are too many selfish people in the us and on the planet so there will always be hunger and strife.

7/26/2011 8:04:27 PM

^ those countries doing it with flying colors, are they by chance part of the Euro? You have a TV right?

7/26/2011 8:48:04 PM

Quote :

"No its just easier said than done. Just like ts impossible to implement pure communism because some will always refuse to give up more than their fair share. We can try our best to make sure everyone has just enough to make it though. That is a lot easier and accomplished with flying colors in the best nations of the world. IT really is that simple for everyone to have what they need but there are too many selfish people in the us and on the planet so there will always be hunger and strife."

Compared to most of the world, you have way, way, way more than your fair share. Why aren't you giving everything up except what you need to survive?

The answer is that you're a hypocrite. You want everyone to get government services, but it's always somebody else's responsibility to pay.

Aside from the moral issues (other people are not your property - you don't get to hold a gun to someone's head and say "sorry, you've got too much, give some to me"), government programs just don't work that well. They are exempt from market forces that drive up quality and lower prices. That's why Medicare/Social Security is unsustainable. That's why our foreign policy is unsustainable.

[Edited on July 26, 2011 at 9:33 PM. Reason : ]

7/26/2011 9:29:55 PM

You don't know me. You don't know how i live. A lot of people don't give up their stuff because they know unless it is policy, they will be the only ones which means their belongings will eventually end up in some rich persons pocket.

7/26/2011 9:53:21 PM

I know you have access to a computer with internet, which makes you better off than most of the people of the world. Why are you so fucking greedy?

7/26/2011 9:56:07 PM

Conservatives = double facepalm in this thread

7/26/2011 10:04:40 PM

Theres enough for everyone to have a computer with internet and a 400sq foot living area. Everything I own is enough to allow me to do my job well and my job, conveniently is helping other people get on their feet.

7/26/2011 10:08:10 PM

Quote :

"Theres enough for everyone to have a computer with internet and a 400sq foot living area. Everything I own is enough to allow me to do my job well and my job, conveniently is helping other people get on their feet."

But everyone doesn't have a computer with internet and a 400 sq foot living area. Most of humanity doesn't. And, for some reason, you're too worried about yourself to help those people out.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't actually have a problem with the fact that you're selfish. I'm also selfish, and so is anyone else that doesn't want to get trampled on in life. You have to look out for yourself or you end up destitute with nothing to show for it. It's just incredibly dumb how "liberals" think they're being altruistic by forcing people to give away shit, though. There's nothing noble about giving away other people's money, and there's actually something quite sinister about taking people's money and using it to line the pockets of the rich and kill people in other countries, which is exactly how it works in the United States.

[Edited on July 26, 2011 at 10:24 PM. Reason : ]

7/26/2011 10:24:37 PM

^ The everyone gets some basic standard of life entitlement is as old as prostitution and has yet to work. I cant fathom people not getting this, history is littered with fallen empires that collapsed under the weight of bread and circus. What blows my mind is as Europe burns currently, some still suggest why don't we try what they did.

7/26/2011 10:29:01 PM

Nah Norway and Sweden are doing quite fine aside from some conservatives giving up and losing it.

Quote :

"Now, don't get me wrong, I don't actually have a problem with the fact that you're selfish. I'm also selfish, and so is anyone else that doesn't want to get trampled on in life. You have to look out for yourself or you end up destitute with nothing to show for it. It's just incredibly dumb how "liberals" think they're being altruistic by forcing people to give away shit, though. There's nothing noble about giving away other people's money, and there's actually something quite sinister about taking people's money and using it to line the pockets of the rich and kill people in other countries, which is exactly how it works in the United States."

I'm not selfish. I constantly give up the opportunity to have more than what I need because I am not selfish. If I were selfish, I would simply begin to pile up as much money as I could, like the conservatives and if I were in charge, I wouldn't hesitate to make sure everyone had a good balance.

7/26/2011 10:33:10 PM

Norway is great, if only every country could have 6.5 million people and massive oil reserves, than yes we could provide for all a min standard of living. They have a $900b wealth fund and budget of 200b. Combined these two countries have a population less than metro Chicago. They have no significant military and without the US Euro support would be little more than a speed bump for the Russians. So yes they pay 50% taxes and everyone gets a safety net. Understand why this cant work in every country.

7/26/2011 11:10:57 PM

Sweden GDP per capita: 48k
US GDP per capita: 47k

Get that population bullcrap out of here.

7/26/2011 11:13:54 PM

Quote :

"Making everyone buy it makes it cheaper."

No, it really doesn't. Because they also said you can't be denied coverage. Which means there is ZERO incentive to buy it now if it costs more than the "penalty". Thus, by making it so no one can be denied, they've made the price so much higher. Just wait. They've basically made insurance be, well, not insurance.

Quote :

"blank liberty and the pursuit of happiness?"

wat

Quote :

"Affording them and wanting to afford them are two diffferent things."

Yes they are. And if you can't afford it, then it's a bad idea to pursue it.

Quote :

"So you rather just let people die on the streets?"

If they make that choice, then YES. IT'S THE RESULT OF THEIR STUPID FUCKING CHOICES. Only a liberal would think that removing the consequences of an action will make people less likely to take that action. Besides, it's not like they can't go to a fucking hospital and be treated. It's not a matter of "Universal Insurance" verses "people dying in the streets". It's a classic false dilemma.

Quote :

"Healthcare should be the responsibility of employers"

BULL MOTHER FUCKING SHIT

7/26/2011 11:36:35 PM

lets just raise the debt ceiling and taxes it wouldn't be that big a deal would it? I mean Reagan (peace be upon him) raised the Debt ceiling 17 times, taxes 11 times and increased the size of the federal gov't by 60k people so its not like it hasn't happened before, right?

7/26/2011 11:40:19 PM

Quote :

"Did you miss the part where he said that they have practically no military and rely on other countries, essentially, for their protection? "

This is sickeningly naive.

Stick is one small part of safety. We use plenty of carrot in our own policy, why do you think we pay other country billions? It is often better diplomatically to do this, than to spend these billions of military. It's like you've never played Civilization...

Even a very significant amount of our military spending doesn't go to combat. A massive amount of it goes to research as well.

7/26/2011 11:40:59 PM

Quote :

"No, it really doesn't. Because they also said you can't be denied coverage. Which means there is ZERO incentive to buy it now if it costs more than the "penalty". Thus, by making it so no one can be denied, they've made the price so much higher. Just wait. They've basically made insurance be, well, not insurance."

Its immoral for someone who gets sick not to be able to get insurance. It seems you want a nation with no ethical values. The idea is to make insurance not insurance because then maybe the insurance companies will convert to a morally sound business or simply cease to exist leaving room for the government to move in.

Quote :

"wat"

fill in the blank of the other thing everyone has a right to

Quote :

"Yes they are. And if you can't afford it, then it's a bad idea to pursue it."

We can easily afford it. We just don't all want to. Some of us rather buy 7 vehicles instead of taking care of other people.

Quote :

"If they make that choice, then YES. IT'S THE RESULT OF THEIR STUPID FUCKING CHOICES."

yeah only a moron would go out and catch cancer.

Quote :

" Besides, it's not like they can't go to a fucking hospital and be treated."

This was not efficient and put a strain on the system.

Quote :

"That is the first fucking problem in the entire system! Employment and health insurance should be 100% divorced. it's the primary reason we are so fucked up now."

You are correct here. I meant under our current/old system. I agree with you on this and believe that the government should provide health insurance like many of the more sophisticated governments do.

Quote :

"No, communism is impossible because someone has to be in power, and at that point, it fails."

Things could be different in a democratic society. Pure democracy alas?

Quote :

"Why? Why can't people be responsible for their own god damned selves?"

Because some people will always find a way to hoard more than their fair share. At this point somebody, somewhere is going without and once 1 person has more than their fair share its impossible for everyone else to take care of themselves because resources have been hoarded.

If there are 10 slices of pizza in the room and 10 people and I eat two before anyone else eats there is no longer a way that everyone can have a slice. No matter how hard they work, everyone can't possibly have a slice anymore.

Quote :

"Did you miss the part where he said that they have practically no military and rely on other countries, essentially, for their protection? "

take the 47k down to 46 k and we still have more than double the military spending of any other nation.

7/26/2011 11:53:19 PM