i was about to say, tracy smith is a damn man on the boards. when he's not in the game though, we're all thumbs.

2/18/2009 11:30:24 PM

going by the box score, unc only outrebounded us by 4. the fact that they only turned the ball over once in the 2nd half coupled with 62% shooting is what sealed the game. we played well, they just played better.

2/18/2009 11:30:39 PM

^not many teams CAN beat them. I mean damn......they're just a really, really talented fucking team. 98% of the teams in the NCAA would lose 2/2 to them if they played them twice this year.

2/18/2009 11:33:28 PM

^exactly. turnovers and 2nd chance points is what killed us. other than that we played a good game. i think if we could've gotten production out of fells and mccauley, we would've won despite all the turnovers.

2/18/2009 11:34:08 PM

I mean everyone agreed from the beginning that for us to pull this off, we'd need to bring a very solid game and they'd need to have an off night. Aside from a cold streak we did decent enough, but they most definitely were on in the second half and there's not much you can do when that much talent is playing well together

2/18/2009 11:35:13 PM

^besides the VT game, McCauley hasn't done much of anything ALL year. This lineup seems to be working right now, plus hes a senior, so I would hate to take him out of the starting lineup.....but really, he hasn't done much of anything lately.

2/18/2009 11:35:34 PM

home game - 18 points loss

a few weeks later

@chapel hill - 9 points loss

progress

still credible

2/19/2009 12:15:27 AM

The stats are misleading because missed shots led to easy points, and unc got a lot of points off of their rebounds because they were in transition situations.

To beat UNC you need efficient offense to prevent fast breaks, obviate their rebounding prowess, and slow the game down.

When we last beat them, fells was hitting everything, we had a better defense, and they were just young.

It feels like we just need a little bit more talent to be able to pull one of these out.

2/19/2009 12:22:19 AM

Quote :

"^besides the VT game, McCauley hasn't done much of anything ALL year."

2nd leading scorer and leading rebounder and 4th in assists for a center is nothing?

2/19/2009 12:59:22 AM

Quote :

"To beat UNC you need efficient offense to prevent fast breaks, obviate their rebounding prowess, and slow the game down."

It helps if you don't let your team shoot retarded shots with zero chance at crashing the boards leading to fast breaks leading to points/free throws.

2/19/2009 1:01:34 AM

that's what i just said....

2/19/2009 1:05:08 AM

I guess we both agree.

last time I think we just got lucky

-- credibility

[Edited on February 19, 2009 at 1:10 AM. Reason : .]

2/19/2009 1:09:38 AM

I was very impressed witht eh squad tonight Sid....Keep it up big man...and keep Tracy Smith in the starting line up!! GO PACK!

2/19/2009 1:21:24 AM

Quote :

"It has been 18 years since NC State has scored at least 80 points in three straight ACC games"

I'm not interested in finding out how long it's been, but now we've gone 4 straight ACC games.

2/19/2009 8:52:53 AM

Any ideas on why Mays never gets minutes, especially with how bad Degand looks sometimes?

I was thinking maybe Mays look for his shot a little more than Lowe would like for a PG to do, but that's really the best I can come up with... I guess Degand plays a little better defense?

2/19/2009 8:58:40 AM

We played better than Duke.

2/19/2009 8:59:41 AM

Well, Mays is a SG, not a true PG.

2/19/2009 9:01:01 AM

^ that shit drives me insane. he's played nothing but pg for us, thus he is a pg.

2/19/2009 9:09:11 AM

About like saying Lorenzo Brown will be playing out of position if he plays the 1 at State.

2/19/2009 9:10:53 AM

Quote :

"besides the VT game, McCauley hasn't done much of anything ALL year. "

Sure, he's had a few off games, but he's averaging 8 rbs, 12.5 points, and has the highest shooting percentage on the team. He's doing alright.

2/19/2009 9:36:18 AM

Point Guard. PG

2/19/2009 9:36:44 AM

still frickin credible jiminy christmas

2/19/2009 10:10:22 AM

Quote :

"Any ideas on why Mays never gets minutes, especially with how bad Degand looks sometimes?"

I don't know either, same thing with Simon Harris and Trevor Ferguson. They are both upperclassmen, and Fergie has STARTED some games for us this year. How do you go from STARTING some games to getting 0 minutes? And I know Simon is not an offensive player, but he provides an incredible spark of energy off the bench, not to mention he can play some decent defense and can jump out of the gym.

But I think with Mays that Lowe is trying to keep the PG rotation limited to 2 players for now.

2/19/2009 11:10:27 AM

Simon and Fergie should not be playing. What are you smoking?

Mays and Thomas could see the floor more though.....especially over Horner if possible.

2/19/2009 11:14:25 AM

first time i think we have agreed on anything Boozie!

Simon should get some enforcer minutes if we ever need that but Ferguson shouldnt ever play again.

he has proven to me at least that he just isnt capable of being a productive player for us.

im willing to bet that he will not be on scholly next year.

2/19/2009 11:17:10 AM

Another game where Sid's recruits outscored or kept pace with Herb's recruits.

Herb's guys:
41 points (as Horner the leading scorer), 17 rebounds, 111 minutes

Sid's guys:
39 points, 9 rebounds, 89 minutes (only 2 starters)

Sid's guys are offensively more effective over the past 3-4 games than Herb's guys per minute, and it's no coincidence that we're playing better offensively over those last 4 games. Despite being freshmen and sophomores, Sid's recruits are holding their own against their 4 and 5 star senior teammates.


Quick question: Why can't we play our starters more often. How is it that UNC can play a run and gun offense like that and play it's starters >30 minutes a game, and our starters rarely sniff 26 minutes?

State:
Tracy Smith, F 31
Brandon Costner, F 23
Ben McCauley, F-C 36
Courtney Fells, G-F 26
Javier Gonzalez, G 26
Farnold Degand, G 15
C.J. Williams, G-F 17
Dennis Horner, F 26

UNC:
Danny Green, G-F 32
Tyler Hansbrough, F 33
Deon Thompson, F 21
Wayne Ellington, G 36
Ty Lawson, G 35
Bobby Frasor, G 11
Ed Davis, F 17
Larry Drew II, G 5
Tyler Zeller, F 8
Justin Watts, G 1
Mike Copeland, F 1


Overall, as everyone said...great game, showed progress, offense is clicking, still credible, lock thread.

[Edited on February 19, 2009 at 11:25 AM. Reason : ]

2/19/2009 11:20:02 AM

Quote :

"Quick question: Why can't we play our starters more often. How is it that UNC can play a run and gun offense like that and play it's starters >30 minutes a game, and our starters rarely sniff 26 minutes?"

Becuase the majority of our starters aren't as good of atheletes as UNC's

2/19/2009 11:44:58 AM

the thread title is lame and the occasional "still credible" or "i love herb" posts are annoying

but I like this thread because it keeps all the discussions about our team's strengths/weaknesses/improvements all in one thread

2/19/2009 11:52:20 AM

^^Conditioning is not exactly the same as athletics. Actually, lots of other teams starters play more than 25-29 minutes per game. Hell, in Sid's first year our starters played like 34 minutes a game or something....

I don't know if it's just his rotation strategy or lack of conditioning, but I'd like to see Smith, Costner, Javi (or whichever PG doesn't shit the bed that particular night), gets 30+ minutes. He has already tightened up the rotation, which is good, but I'd like to see less bench time and more starter time if possible. Just an observation.

2/19/2009 12:11:27 PM

Tyler Hansbrough 29.5
Ty Lawson 28.7
Wayne Ellington 28.8
Danny Green 26.3
Deon Thompson 25.8


Brandon Costner 28.3
Ben McCauley 29.5
Courtney Fells 30.0
Tracy Smith 15.9 (25.5 over the last 4)
Dennis Horner 17.3

Gonzalez and Degand are both 19 and change.





I think teh question is being asked poorly. It's not that UNC runs and we don't. If you want ot know the answer, ask it like this:

"How come Ty Lawson and Wayne Ellington are playing more minutes than Degand and Fells?"

2/19/2009 12:20:45 PM

^No, my question was stated how I wanted it. Those are season averages, which does not take into account that we haven't had a settled starting lineup all year. Basically everyone but the 3 seniors have had their minutes fluctuate greatly, so averages don't work.

Why can't Javi play 30 minutes when he is on fire like last night? Why can't Tracy Smith play 30 minutes now that Sid finally realized he's a beast? Etc.

2/19/2009 12:54:25 PM

At least as far as Javi was concerned every time he went out it looked like he was seriously winded and needed some rest.

2/19/2009 1:05:02 PM

javi was seriously winded, and tracy played big minutes last night

2/19/2009 1:10:17 PM

Quote :

"Why can't Javi play 30 minutes when he is on fire like last night? Why can't Tracy Smith play 30 minutes now that Sid finally realized he's a beast? "

There are several reasons. Fatigue and defense being two. Did you see Javi gasping to catch his breath on the bench?

[Edited on February 19, 2009 at 1:13 PM. Reason : Tracy did played 31 last night]

2/19/2009 1:11:59 PM

it's sad really. They are not as good athletes and not as well coniditioned as the UNC players.

2/19/2009 1:45:13 PM

Quote :

"Why can't Javi play 30 minutes when he is on fire like last night? Why can't Tracy Smith play 30 minutes now that Sid finally realized he's a beast? Etc. "

Javi played 26 last night, Smith played 31. Javi's minutes have increased over the past three games.


In the context of how this season has gone, I don't think you'll see one guy all of the sudden just play for 38 minutes and the other 2, barring injury or something. I think you also need to temper this "on fire" talk with the 3 assists and 5 TO's.

2/19/2009 2:09:02 PM

Did you not watch the game? Javi was "on fire". Period.

For those of you saying "Javi was out of breath", yes, I saw that. My point is that many teams play their starters or the hot hand 30-35 minutes every game, and we seem to play most of our starters 25-30 minutes....

I know he was out of breath....that's my complaint. Why do we get so winded? And it's not just against UNC....

2/19/2009 5:29:49 PM

You really can't be too upset about last nights game.

You can be hella upset if the same intensity isn't shown on upcoming games.

2/19/2009 6:02:13 PM

we need to score 80+ every remaining game of the season

2/19/2009 6:49:54 PM

Quote :

"My point is that many teams play their starters or the hot hand 30-35 minutes every game, and we seem to play most of our starters 25-30 minutes...."

There are 14 players in the ACC averaging 30+ minutes per game

There are 3 that average 35+

State and UNC are the only teams without a player averaging more than 30

http://kenpom.com/leaders.php?c=PctMin&y=2009&f=ACC

We also go to the bench more than anyone in the ACC, 12th most in the country

http://kenpom.com/height.php?y=2009&s=BenchRank

[Edited on February 19, 2009 at 7:12 PM. Reason : ]

2/19/2009 7:09:01 PM

If we keep the offense that has shown up over the last four games, we can still end up 8-8 with very winnable games agianst UVA, MD, BC, and Miami. Still have hope.

2/19/2009 7:12:11 PM

^ that's what I'm talkin about!

2/19/2009 8:32:56 PM

then get a win over a 6-10 seed, hopefully play Duke and beat them, on to Clemson and beat them, lose to UNC in the championship... and be a 1 seed in the NIT

2/19/2009 9:39:46 PM

nah bro, 8-8 and championship game gets us to the show!

2/19/2009 9:59:32 PM

i just noticed that our final two ACC home games of the season are during Spring Break. WTFNCSU.......seriously?? that fucking sucks

2/19/2009 10:00:55 PM

Quote :

"We also go to the bench more than anyone in the ACC, 12th most in the country http://kenpom.com/height.php?y=2009&s=BenchRank"

Getting them experience points!


Interesting, we're #17 in avg height, and #21 in eff height.

Forgive me, but what's "eff height".?

[Edited on February 19, 2009 at 11:15 PM. Reason : V Thanks!]

2/19/2009 11:00:43 PM

http://ww.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=82

2/19/2009 11:02:59 PM

We were #1 last year in weighted-height

http://www.brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=518423

2/19/2009 11:06:46 PM

Quote :

"Did you not watch the game? Javi was "on fire". Period. For those of you saying "Javi was out of breath", yes, I saw that. My point is that many teams play their starters or the hot hand 30-35 minutes every game, and we seem to play most of our starters 25-30 minutes.... I know he was out of breath....that's my complaint. Why do we get so winded? And it's not just against UNC...."

I watched the game. If all you can say is that he was "on fire", and you won't acknowledge that we do play guys more than 30 minutes in a game, or what the dynamics of our team are this year at the guard positions, and can't figure out why Gonzalez got tired when he was guarding Ty Lawson, then that's fine.

2/20/2009 8:54:01 AM

I fully believe that in college bball if you have a hot guy for the night you play him until he is really tired. These kids are used to playing AAU ball and playing four games a day on the weekends. Fatigue, IMO, is the most overrated thing in college ball. These kids can play 2, on a rare occasion 3, games a weeks for four months and not get tired.

I am all far resting guys when you get a big lead late in a game, but I don't see any reason to be so judicious with minutes in a close ACC game.

IMO, Sid still has some NBA in him. Playing 82 games, you must sometimes just not play a player all that much one night to give him a little bit of a rest. But in college, there are less than half the games, games are not as long, and not as many games a week. These college players are not going to "wear down". Play who is hot and ride them to victories.

2/20/2009 9:41:39 AM