ask a friend on the basketball team

5/11/2017 4:28:35 PM

Quote :

"They are STILL hitching their wagons to this."

And they have lied about their lying too. The official number that UNC gave was that out of the 3,000 fake class enrollments over 18 years, 48% were athletes. This, in and of itself is cause to have the entire athletic department take a year off from competition. The official number that UNC gave was 4% to describe what proportion of the student body athletes make up. I think this is probably too high, but nonetheless, when 4% of an organization represents 48% of the fraud, we have what an 8th grade Intro to Statistics course would describe as a significant correlation. I think other reports came out that had men's basketball players (12 on a roster which wouldn't even be 1/10 of 1% of the entire student body), especially in the 90's accounting for 35-40% of the fraud at that time. Then Bunting and Butch got hold of it and I think that's when Crowder started (at Wayne Walden's/Jan Boxill's direction) getting team managers and regular students involved to water it down.

On top of that, student managers, tutors, and many others who were affiliated with the athletic department were lumped into the "regular students" category to skew the numbers, which already looked bad at 4 and 48. Dan Kane wrote a blistering article on Erik Hoots, who is probably May/Felton/Mcants age and he was a student manager or something like that and currently has a full time cushy position sitting behind Roy to this day who majored and graduated in AFAM. You can bet people of his ilk were counted in the "regular student" category even though they are neck deep in this mess.

And then there's the issue of the real class section where Crowder enrolled hoopsters but she (a secretary) created an independent study "IS" course for the hoopsters where all they had to do was turn in a paper hand delivered by their tutor and Crowder (again, a secretary) rubber stamped an "A." I think this is where Crowder forged signatures of the professor(s) who were teaching the regular section of the class in a classroom with a syllabus. Only at UNC would someone with a sub 3.0 GPA be granted the ability to take as many IS courses as they wanted.

With the hundreds of email chains Crowder left, it's hard to fathom how she avoided jail let alone this petty NCAA stuff when you think about the fraud of tax payer dollars at a major university and forging signatures.

[Edited on May 12, 2017 at 9:29 AM. Reason : .]

5/12/2017 9:25:30 AM

Quote :

""Crowder, who graded many of the papers in the problem classes, also filed an affidavit defending the courses' quality. In it, she said she hadn't created courses to provide special assistance for athletes, and added that athletes and non-athletes received equal treatment.""

i'll repeat what i said a few pages back

Quote :

"what unc fans (maybe because a higher % aren't alums) don't understand or wrap their head around is that proclaiming "NOT AN ATHLETIC ISSUE" doesn't erase the fact that this is still major academic fraud spanning multiple decades and, seemingly, an entire academic department of study. that's pretty serious, pretty bad, and definitely nothing to defend. it's very clearly aimed at keeping athletes eligible, i'm not sure how you can seriously argue against that. in my opinion, this being a scheme strictly to keep athletes eligible is actually not as bad as if it were widespread, rampant academic fraud not restricted to athletes. sure, if it's related to athletes you can lose banners and be subject to NCAA punishment. but from a "what's more wrong" standpoint - i feel like it's more wrong or more embarrassing and indefensible if this weren't an athletic issue and was strictly indiscriminate academic fraud to any and all students taking these classes. so yeah...scream "NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction" and "this is academic and not athletic" all you want...just be aware of what that means you're admitting that you're ok with. "

5/12/2017 10:10:03 AM

I specifically remember a Crowder email that came out where she lamented the fact that the fraternity crowd had caught on to the "no show classes, get credit" scheme.

5/12/2017 10:57:07 AM

Alice Dawson <adawson@email.unc.edu>

Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:15PM

dacrowde@email. unc.edu

(no subject)

I am so sorry!! I tried to call you with a heads up that a student might show up and that I did not send him to you and I wouldn't let him into my class if it were me (unless it was a very difficult course requiring copious amounts of study and time; he really got on my nerves!), but your line was busy and I had four students waiting and by the time I finished with a couple of them and could try to get back with you, Betsy said you'd called. I did NOT send that goober over to see you this afternoon, I tried to discourage him when he brought up having heard about indepedent studies in Afam and asked if he could do that, and I'm very sorry he showed up on your doorstep. Betsy had told me during registration that you all had had to literally close the doors because the demand was too much, so I have not sent anyone since then (I figured if it was a hard luck case and someone who truly needed help, I'd ask her to ask you before doing anything or else I'd talk to John Florin). You had also told me one day in Betsy's office last semester that word about your independent studies had sort of gotten into the frat circuit so I've tried to remember to give a student one of my cards before sending them over to you and to actively squash students who are being slack. When Betsy referred this kid to me today, I confirmed with her that you still had all the problem kids you could handle so I very specifically was not going to offer any of your courses as a solution to him; my lips were sealed. And once I began talking to this student, I had less than -0- sympathy and specifically wouldn't have offered your classes to him even if you had needed students to fill them! I found him 3 courses (Soci 10, Poli 41, and Geog 20) with openings that fit his schedule. He informed me he didn't want to take any more "classes that are a waste" and didn't want to have to "like go to any more classes during the week this semester" (which is why he was in the predicament with an underload) but he didn't want to be part-time (which is it, kiddo??? add a class or you are part -time!!). Then he said that he had heard of taking an "independent study in like Afam or something" and could he do that. I told him that it was up to departments but I'd suggest he try one of the open courses we'd found but it was pretty clear he wasn't going to try to do so. He wants to study architecture so I suggested going to the Art Dept. about independent studies, and he sounded interested in that, but obviously didn't go there. So I'm sorry. I don't ever want to do anything to make your life more difficult. You are so wonderful to always be willing to help students who truly need it (***REDACTED*** graduated!!! THANK YOU AGAIN!!) so I try to not take advantage of your good heart. I promise to always try to honor what you do and protect against slackers like today's student.

You and Betsy have countless stars in your respective crowns in my book, and ANYthing that I can do to help I will do. Including NOT sending goobers to see you!

At least tomorrow is Friday, and it's not a moment too soon. Take care, and again, thank you for all you do.

Alice

5/12/2017 11:19:03 AM

the afam classes were definitely popular in greek life, or at least among the sorority girls i knew

5/12/2017 11:33:57 AM

Quote :

"Then he said that he had heard of taking an "independent study in like Afam or something" and could he do that. I told him that it was up to departments "

Comical. Let me translate that underlined part: If you are on the hoops team the "department" will approve an entire semester's worth of Independent Study no show courses and we will get a tutor to turn in on your behalf a recycled paper for an easy "A." If you are a regular student, you will be in the physical classroom with an actual teacher with a mickey mouse workload.

It's almost as if they are making Crowder out to be some champion of philanthropy and she is doing such great work keeping the revenue athletes eligible without a shred of regard for academic rigor/ethics as long as the university's crown jewel hoops team is running on all cylinders.



[Edited on May 12, 2017 at 11:50 AM. Reason : .]

5/12/2017 11:45:45 AM

Well, it's not like the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill gives a shit about the education of most of their undergraduates. Perhaps that's the main takeaway of this. When presented with a UNC-Chapel Hill degree from an aspiring job applicant, is the university telling us to treat the individual like you would a liberal arts degree from Asheville?

5/12/2017 12:03:22 PM

hilarious that the "goober" from that email didnt want to go to actual classes during the week, but was aspiring to be an architect. hahaha wtf

5/12/2017 12:15:18 PM

how do they explain the sections of AFAM that were not publicly available and had 21 enrollees(20 athletes, am sure the 21st was a manager/pimp/agent or something).

Only admins could add students to those sections. Its in there somewhere but nobody gives a fuck


and Alice whatever sounds like a total douche

[Edited on May 12, 2017 at 4:18 PM. Reason : s]

5/12/2017 4:16:26 PM

^Apparently a multi year award winning douche.

2006: http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/jun06/nationaladvising060906.htm

2012: http://college.unc.edu/2012/04/27/advisingawards2012/

[Edited on May 12, 2017 at 9:41 PM. Reason : ]

5/12/2017 9:39:16 PM

^^And that's completely accurate. I think I've said it multiple places, but I had a couple friends in AF-AM at Chapel Hill, and they both independently knew about those classes but also knew they weren't eligible to apply for them through the regular course catalog.

At the time, they both assumed the classes were reserved for the "hard luck" cases...kids who had to change their schedules to take care of their sick grandmas but also needed to stay full time for financial aid purposes...or kids who were not quite good enough students to succeed at a full-time level, so they needed an easy way to boost their GPA (and, again, stay full-time and keep their financial aid).

So, yeah, non-athlete students had to be specially identified and recommended for those classes by their advisors.

[Edited on May 12, 2017 at 9:46 PM. Reason : Tired and slow.]

5/12/2017 9:45:44 PM

Quote :

"“The things he’s done and said and denied, I just can’t respect,” said McCants, who played for Williams for two seasons. “As a coach, he’s a great coach, and he’s deserving of the Hall of Fame and everything that’s coming to him. But as a man, I don’t have anything to say.”"

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/article152450349.html

Didn't talk to the NCAA but maybe he'll speak more if he does truly feel he's being blackballed.

5/24/2017 5:53:07 PM

S
T
D

5/24/2017 8:38:04 PM

Still cant believe he accidentally made the Dean's List at UNC.

5/24/2017 10:49:47 PM

I'm sure lots of the people in the comments of that article are UNC grads

5/24/2017 11:24:46 PM

UNC has released their response. Just got the email:

Quote :

" Dear Carolina Community: We are writing to let you know that the University has released our response to the NCAA’s third notice of allegations resulting from the joint investigation of past academic irregularities. You may read our response, which includes an executive summary, on the Carolina Commitment website. To fully understand the University’s position requires a careful reading of the arguments and evidence. It has been a lengthy and complex journey, and this response marks a significant step forward in resolving our case. Following is the website posting: University releases response to NCAA’s third notice of allegations The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill has released its response to the NCAA’s third notice of allegations resulting from the joint investigation of past academic irregularities. The response, submitted May 16, was posted on the Carolina Commitment website after a review to protect privacy rights. Also posted was a public copy of exhibits accompanying the response and recent correspondence to and from the NCAA in response to public records requests. “We are prepared and look forward to presenting our case to the Committee on Infractions,” said Chancellor Carol L. Folt. “Bringing closure to this process will be an important step for our University. The expansive reforms and initiatives now in place at Carolina reflect the academic values of a community that I am proud to lead.” “We sent the NCAA a full and detailed response,” said Bubba Cunningham, director of athletics. “Our reply to each allegation is based on the NCAA’s constitution and member-adopted bylaws. We expect the Committee on Infractions to consistently apply those bylaws as the case moves forward.” Last October, the University participated in a procedural hearing before the NCAA’s Committee on Infractions. Following the hearing, the panel requested the NCAA’s enforcement staff to revisit the second notice of allegations issued in April 2016. The enforcement staff issued its third notice of allegations in December 2016. The University received the NCAA’s first notice of allegations in May 2015. The NCAA notified the University in June 2014 that it would reopen its original 2011 examination of the past academic irregularities. The case was paused in August 2015 when the University notified the NCAA it had identified new information requiring further review. The next steps in the NCAA’s process for the University include a hearing before the Committee on Infractions scheduled later this summer. The committee typically issues a report several weeks after the hearing. Under the leadership of Folt, who took office in 2013, Carolina has been extraordinarily proactive in accepting all responsibility for its past, working diligently to get to the bottom of these issues, restoring trust, and implementing more than 70 wide-ranging reforms and initiatives. In 2016, the University demonstrated compliance with all academic accreditation principles and standards of the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges (SACSCOC) following a yearlong probation. NCAA Bylaw 19.03.01 requires that all infractions-related information remain confidential throughout the infractions process. Consistent with NCAA protocol, University officials will not comment on details about the case until it is completed. Sincerely, Carol L. Folt Chancellor Bubba Cunningham Director of Athletics"

5/25/2017 1:20:22 PM

so they're still telling the NCAA to fuck off

5/25/2017 1:34:46 PM

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

5/25/2017 1:38:50 PM

Quote :

"Under the leadership of Folt, who took office in 2013, Carolina has been extraordinarily proactive in accepting all responsibility for its past, working diligently to get to the bottom of these issues"

Give me a fucking break. Like hell you did/are doing either one of those things.

5/25/2017 1:55:15 PM

They're still arguing the NCAA doest have jurisdiction over academics. IE everyone could have taken the courses, and since the courses are not overseen by the sports dept's, the sports depts are not responsible. So here's an idea, lets revoke their academic accreditation.

5/25/2017 2:10:32 PM

Liars.

And nice use of the term "irregularities."

5/25/2017 3:13:17 PM

wasn't this arrogant approach what got them the second(?) amended NOA (I've lost count)? Like the one after the nice one where they took off some stuff, but then UNC tried to be dicks and the NCAA was like hold my beer and then added on all of the original stuff and then some?

I don't get how they can still take this arrogant "it's none of your business" line again after it seemed to hurt them last time.

I hope the NCAA grows a fucking pair and bitch slaps these cheaters back to 1 banner.

5/25/2017 3:26:29 PM

http://carolinacommitment.unc.edu/university-releases-response-to-ncaas-third-notice-of-allegations/

The response itself is just their legal bullshit trying to deny everything. But some of the exhibits they submitted might have some juicy stuff. Interview with Crowder, etc



[Edited on May 25, 2017 at 3:44 PM. Reason : `]



[Edited on May 25, 2017 at 3:47 PM. Reason : .]

5/25/2017 3:38:48 PM

wow what a cunt. who turns down a polo

5/25/2017 3:54:51 PM

i'm assuming she wanted the shirt for her kid or husband after she turned it down for herself. i'm dying to know who ended up with it

because of the redactions, i read it as if Crowder turned down the shirt but was saying Walden should give it to the player instead...which cracked me up since they get so many free shirts and clothing items as it is.

[Edited on May 25, 2017 at 4:13 PM. Reason : d]

5/25/2017 4:12:20 PM

Pretty sure its for her long term boyfriend Warren Martin, who was on the 82 championship game. But one would assume he would get all the free Carolina swag he could ever want. He finally retired from my kids middle school as a teacher.

5/25/2017 10:30:39 PM

Couldn't the NCAA call UNC's bluff of sorts on they don't have jurisdiction over academics and then give all their information on the decades-old fraud to the Department of Education for them to investigate?

5/25/2017 10:37:58 PM

SACs or whatever it's called already put them on probation and took them off. That's likely all anyone is going to do.

Punishing UNC with that sort of hammer would impact too many people's lives for anyone to seriously consider it.

5/25/2017 11:09:04 PM

That's SACS. The federal government are probably interested in any of their disbursed aid money being used resulting in fraudulent credits being given out.

5/25/2017 11:25:32 PM

Except the federal government folks who would be sent in to investigate will have all graduated from UNC in the '70s or something, and they'll find "no evidence of wrongdoing" or simply call years of athletic, academic and financial fraud "irregularities." Seems like that's always how it works with them.

5/26/2017 10:45:34 AM

I think the federal government has a few more things to worry about right now than going after this shit.

Maybe someone can get in Trumps ear though and say some brown people got away with something and show him some of Roy's comments and he'll get someone on that.

5/26/2017 2:41:36 PM

this has gone on so long that i don't even care anymore. Give them all degrees, give them whatever they want. Let them play round ball and leave me alone.

[Edited on May 26, 2017 at 3:02 PM. Reason : /getoffmylawn]

5/26/2017 3:02:09 PM

Their plan all along has succeeded then. Just stall stall stall until people just get fed up and don't care anymore.

5/26/2017 3:57:04 PM

So which mysteries will be solved 1st?

Did Trump Colluded With the Russian!?
Who Killed JFK?!
Who Killed TUPAC and BIGGIE!?
Will UNC be punish!?
Who stole the cookie from the cookie jar?!?

We will never know!

[Edited on May 26, 2017 at 11:32 PM. Reason : d]

5/26/2017 11:06:50 PM

I can't wait til this really starts paying off for us!

5/27/2017 10:13:17 PM

Quote :

"Did Trump Colluded"

Quote :

"Will UNC be punish"

[Edited on May 27, 2017 at 10:42 PM. Reason : omg]

[Edited on May 27, 2017 at 10:42 PM. Reason : omgwtfbbq]

5/27/2017 10:41:38 PM

Quote :

"Louisville messed up because they didn't argue correctly. Here are some proven, flagship counter arguments that could have been useful to keeping them out of hot water: 1. Regular students had access to hookers too. Therefore, it is not an NCAA violation; 2. NCAA bylaws do not mention hookers or escorts. Therefore, the NCAA has no jurisdiction or capability to punish us; 3. They weren't hookers. They were "anomalous girlfriends" or "irregular dates"; 4. "Were they hookers? By any normal person's standards, yes. But they aren't the kind of hookers the NCAA can punish us for...." 5. "The hookers were rigorous and met all university standards"; 6. The hookers were not fake. They were easy. And the NCAA doesn't care about easy hookers; 7. Every school has easy hookers. If the NCAA starts punishing for that, you might as well shut down all of college athletics; 8. The hookers worked on the academic side of the university and not for the athletic department. So its all good; 9. The coaches were not themselves the pimps for the hookers and didn't know about them. Therefore, not an athletic or NCAA issue; 10. The hookers were not special favors for athletes. They were provided for struggling students who, we felt, could not get a hooker on their own; 11. The NCAA doesn't want to get into the business of deciding "who is a hooker and who is not a hooker." That is an accreditation issue, not an NCAA issue; 12. The students did the hookers that were assigned to them; 13. The hookers didn't do anything wrong and were not a violation. However, we have fired all the powerless underlings involved and instituted over 70 reforms to make sure the hookers don't come back."

lols

6/16/2017 10:44:21 AM

^ lol. Where is that from? Pack Pride?

6/16/2017 11:10:56 AM

LMAO where did that come from

6/16/2017 11:11:35 AM

Quote :

"12. The students did the hookers that were assigned to them; "

Lol, this one is my favorite.

6/16/2017 11:20:36 AM

Quote :

"irregular dates"

6/16/2017 11:37:14 AM

yeah Pack Pride. It's on the premium board. gotta upgrade for that PREMIUM CONTENT GUYS. but once again before people criticize me, I use my friends account to lurk.

6/16/2017 1:47:05 PM

that's fantastic lol

[Edited on June 16, 2017 at 1:48 PM. Reason : .]

6/16/2017 1:47:57 PM

greatest thing I've read all day.

6/16/2017 3:25:17 PM

http://www.wral.com/1-8m-pages-of-unc-scandal-records-now-searchable/16807021/

7/7/2017 2:04:40 PM

Quote :

"For example, our app allows users to search for Butch Davis, UNC-Chapel Hill's former head football coach who was fired as the scandal began to brew in July 2011."

Sure wish they would have used Ole Roy as an example instead

7/7/2017 5:37:15 PM

1.8 million pages of cooperation

7/7/2017 5:43:45 PM

Quote :

"Jeff Gravley @jgravleyWRAL Per @MandyWRAL @UNC has received #NCAA response & "will release it after a review for privacy concerns." A hearing date will be set by NCAA "

How do they always find ways to put out info when there are huge stories breaking.

7/20/2017 3:33:40 PM

So tomorrow at 5pm then?

7/20/2017 3:43:38 PM