98 loss season

11/21/2013 3:00:57 PM

Quote :

"We have 3 McDonald's All-Americans plus several other top 100 recruits. Not exactly chopped liver he's working with. We are underachieving. Pull the good fan and defend the team all you want but NCSU should never lose to a team from the MEAC. We struggled with Campbell too."

Yes, we should beat NCCU....no matter what.

But. It's one fucking game. Let's at least wait to see how/if this young and inexperienced team makes adjustments and improvements moving forward.

And I'm not 100% on the Gott bandwagon...I'm just trying to be realistic and not jump to conclusions 4 games into the season.

11/21/2013 3:04:28 PM

I'm all for giving Gott time, he's still recruiting at a high level and until last night there hasn't been any major WTF type loss, but the FT shooting and poor defensive issues continue to be a problem. The team had a 2 month period at the end of his first year where it seemed like it had a commitment to defense and played together cohesively, but other than there's been zero consistency and the same issues keep cropping up. Pretty concerning even though its early in year 3.

11/21/2013 3:05:59 PM

Quote :

"Kentucky is one of the best teams in the country with no experience."

because we have 3 mcdonald's all-americans, you're going to compare our young talent to kentucky?

(yeah, we have several top100 talents. about the same amount as kentucky has top15 talents.)

[Edited on November 21, 2013 at 3:07 PM. Reason : ]

11/21/2013 3:06:13 PM

Not the point. Point is in today's college basketball you don't get years to improve. Teams across the country are young.

It doesn't matter since we don't play defense we will never be any better than his Alabama teams were. Which BTW always underachieved.

I like Gott. I really do, but he's never going to be any better than what we've done the last two years. 4/5th in the ACC is his ceiling. He's a nice coach we should keep for about 5 seasons total to improve us, which he has, and then land the next one to take us to the higher level. Maybe that coach is Archie Miller. He's in his third year at Dayton.

[Edited on November 21, 2013 at 3:14 PM. Reason : How many teams the last two years have had top 15 classes? And we have another one in 14 coming]

11/21/2013 3:12:03 PM

Quote :

"Teams across the country are young."

Maybe, but accoringto Kenpom we are the 335th most experienced team (out of 351). So we are, in fact, younger and less experienced than most.

Anyways, yeah, that loss sucked and is concerning, but I'm facing reality and realize this season is going to be bumpy (and realize we were pretty fortunate to go to the tournament 2 years in a row under gott). I think we'll be better next year because of it.

11/21/2013 3:19:52 PM

Last year we were "older and more experienced" than most teams and we got bounced by Temple.

Temple had one good player.

11/21/2013 3:23:02 PM

at least we made it the tournie last year.

you were the one who wanted sid gone so badly. Are you officially starting you "Fire Gott" campaign after last night's loss? (nm, i see that you think we should keep him 4 years)

[Edited on November 21, 2013 at 3:29 PM. Reason : ]

11/21/2013 3:26:36 PM

Based on recruiting rankings, Kentucky has the #1 freshman PG, #1 freshman SG, #1 freshman PF (backed up by the #6 freshman PF), #1 freshman C, and #3 freshman SF. They've also got three star freshman backups at guard and forward. Our guys are good, but not that good. Kentucky also returned more guys (and more highly rated guys) than we did, with no real gap at a given position, whereas we returned no big men other than Vandy (who's not really making an impact at the moment anyway).

Like several others have said, judge this team by where they are in February, not where they are four games into the season. If your expectations this year are top 25, you're probably in for a disappointing season. Even some of our top 25 teams in the Hodge years had way more embarrassing losses than this one (see: when we lost to an awful St. John's team a couple months into the season after putting up 10 points in the first half and shooting ~20% for the game). I don't know how you guys that are going all Chicken Little after this game survived through that one.

11/21/2013 3:46:26 PM

St Johns was terrible but they also beat two other ranked teams that year. Easier to stomach a loss to any team in an elite conference than to Central.

11/21/2013 4:03:09 PM

According to this, they just beat #21 Pitt and us:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/2599/year/2005/st-john-red-storm

Given the team we had, the team we faced, and our performance in the game, I still think that game was way harder to swallow than losing to Central. We made THREE shots in the first half with a fairly talented team that made it to the Sweet 16.

11/21/2013 4:25:18 PM

Well I'll disagree.

I guess Georgetown wasn't ranked?

11/21/2013 4:38:20 PM

Quote :

"Not the point. Point is in today's college basketball you don't get years to improve. Teams across the country are young. "

Exactly. I said something similar in a previous thread. The young and inexperienced excuse is bogus plain and simple.

11/21/2013 4:51:29 PM

Central isn't as bad as most people seem to think they are...they had a pretty good showing against Cincy earlier in the year. they'll probably win 25+ games and they have a good shot to win their league and make the tourney this year.

you had to expect some inconsistency early in the year, but you can see the team improving from game to game.

and, if all the games turn out to be called like that one was, it's gonna be a brutal season. That game was so choppy it was damn near unwatchable.

^totally disagree with that.

[Edited on November 21, 2013 at 5:04 PM. Reason : ^]

11/21/2013 4:57:33 PM

We're probably not going to get much better this year. You guys used the same tired arguments last year and we got significantly worse as the season wore on.

Yes, we're young so I agree we will get better. But I don't think it will be that significant of an improvement. We're a borderline top 100 team this year for sure.

15-16 type overall record with 6-12 in the ACC sounds about right. Let's just hope we don't collapse and go like 3-15.

We can't really use the youth argument anyway. Both Lewis and Warren got enough burn last year. Lee and Turner are transfers so they have plenty of game experience. Cat is playing really well so who cares if he's young? Our bigs are pretty fucking awful, but so are most teams.

Plain and simple we just don't play any defense. And if you don't play any defense you'll never be good without ELITE offensive players. And even then you can only be like what we were last year. Marginal.

The fact Gottfried started Washington at the beginning of the year just shows he's in over his head. The guy looks like he'll struggle to ever even be a fringe ACC rotation player. He's very likely to need to transfer to a lesser conference after the season.

I know you guys are all looking to use Vandenberg as an excuse for the reason we're not firing on all cylinders but I just don't think we can rely on him to salvage our season. We're in over our heads here.

[Edited on November 21, 2013 at 5:46 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on November 21, 2013 at 5:46 PM. Reason : a]

11/21/2013 5:44:17 PM

Quote :

"I know you guys are all looking to use Vandenberg as an excuse for the reason we're not firing on all cylinders but I just don't think we can rely on him to salvage our season. We're in over our heads here."

Uh. Actually I don't think anybody has said that. At all.

11/21/2013 6:00:44 PM

^ nothing in his entire post was worth responding to

11/21/2013 6:12:51 PM

I couldn't let that one slide. Face being face.

11/21/2013 6:18:42 PM

individual experience is not the same as playing together, and it's as much a gradual learning experience for the coach as it is the players.

there will probably be another bad loss or two in the next few months, but they will be much better by the end of the year.

11/21/2013 6:18:53 PM

And face, I know you love Ken Pom. You must've missed this from earlier on this page.

Quote :

"Maybe, but accoringto Kenpom we are the 335th most experienced team (out of 351). So we are, in fact, younger and less experienced than most."

11/21/2013 6:21:50 PM

I just think he needs to work on our FT defense. We gotta bring some stuff like this to the line, man! No one is gonna take you seriously if you just stand outside the lane during a free throw!

11/22/2013 12:13:12 AM

Quote :

"Point is in today's college basketball you don't get years to improve. Teams across the country are young."

This is becoming less and less true, especially with the new rules they implemented this year

And you're comparing apples and orangutans if you're trying to equate our McD guys like Barber and Anya with their guys like Wall and Unibrow

[Edited on November 22, 2013 at 12:43 AM. Reason : I think AAU ball is completely fucking this sport up though and has been for awhile]

11/22/2013 12:38:30 AM

11/22/2013 8:33:55 AM

How many shitty games to you have to pay for tickets to and watch before you are allowed to criticize things like not having defense? I don't think being upset about that game makes anyone a fair weather fan.

11/22/2013 2:58:24 PM

criticizing the defense is different than giving up on the team after 4 games.

11/22/2013 3:08:51 PM

You guys act like we are not allowed to have growing pains. We have pretty much a completely new team. We need to recruit Kirk Cameron he knew what that shit was all about.

11/22/2013 4:43:38 PM

actually, it's pretty much like Stone Cold vs The Rock at Wrestlemania X-Seven for the WWF Championship; in other words, we need to sell our soul to the devil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgO2-XnM5yM

11/22/2013 5:24:52 PM

Not really convinced Cat Barber is "the guy" either. He looks to be nearly as selfish and out of control as Purvis, without the ability to finish against anyone who is > 5'6" and 140lb.

11/22/2013 6:59:47 PM

People can quit after 4 games and be just as happy when the team does well again. There are no rules.

11/22/2013 8:49:42 PM

Blasphemy. Barbers numbers are good. Purvis was terrible last year

11/23/2013 8:09:30 AM

and barber plays defense and (mostly) makes his free throws. don't insult him by comparing him to purvis.

11/23/2013 8:14:13 AM

We are one of the most inexperienced teams in the nation based on that KenPom stat

man I wish painter had stayed. He would be a senior, right?

11/23/2013 9:51:16 AM

No. Hed be gone.

No one would have helped this team except randle and Jefferson. But if Jefferson cant derend at duke imagine how bad hed bel here.

11/23/2013 10:38:52 AM

I can only imagine how bad hed bel here as derend

11/23/2013 12:47:38 PM

one extra letter on "be" and an autocorrect. really worth mentioning.

Gottfried had his window of opportunity to convert this into a winning program and he missed. We needed better results the last two years with those loaded rosters so we could capitalize better on recruiting.

11/23/2013 1:09:22 PM

face is really posting well. im on the bandwagon.

11/24/2013 3:23:29 AM

Gott and staff deserve a lot of credit for nabbing Freeman. I almost want to say in spite of Washington kinda sucking, but I think he might be serviceable in a year or two. Nard is a scrapper though.

12/4/2013 8:58:25 PM

If Vandy keeps up his ridiculous efficiency this season, I will gladly give Gott and the staff credit for his improvement. I just wish Vandy could have made an impact like he has so far last season. Let's see what Vandy can do against some solid competition though...

12/5/2013 7:57:05 AM

Barber definitely finishes better than Purvis. I don't think he even looked at the basket when he threw up shots at the end of a drive.

12/5/2013 9:24:17 AM

Love the foundation Gott is building.

12/5/2013 9:30:34 AM

Quote :

" I just wish Vandy could have made an impact like he has so far last season. Let's see what Vandy can do against some solid competition though..."

No point in wishing, we had a lot of good players last year but couldn't gel it into a cohesive team. We also had two ball hogers in CJ Leslie and Purvis that didn't like passing, got fouled often, and couldn't make free throws.

12/5/2013 10:06:08 AM

Quote :

"Gottfried had his window of opportunity to convert this into a winning program and he missed. We needed better results the last two years with those loaded rosters so we could capitalize better on recruiting."

missed a window for sure. the recruiting has been fine though.

i really think there was nothing to be done w/ those sidney lowe players. they were all such pouters, even my boy zo. that sweet 16 was an overachievement.

12/5/2013 8:05:59 PM

Quote :

"No. Hed be gone. "

?

12/5/2013 10:00:02 PM

Did vandy redshirt last year or year before?

[Edited on December 5, 2013 at 11:22 PM. Reason : F]

12/5/2013 11:20:34 PM

Quote :

"Love the foundation Gott is building."

+1

^ year before last

^^^ ignore the troll

12/5/2013 11:49:27 PM

They are looking good last night but All I gotta say is "if Gott fumbles this lewis situation..."

So sick of all the attrition under Gott.

12/6/2013 2:14:00 AM

Are you fucking kidding me? The guy took us to the sweet 16 immediately. He did what it took Herb years to accomplish. We still made the fucking tourney last year. We are making tourneys and our style is no longer a borefest. I thought that's what we wanted. Fucks sake man.

[Edited on December 6, 2013 at 2:32 AM. Reason : .]

12/6/2013 2:30:41 AM

lewis isn't any good. he was a lowe recruit that gott didn't really want or need but let him keep his scholarship because he can be a suitable backup ACC PG and has potential to be a decent player as an upperclassman if he develops.

There's no reason to "worry" about if he transfers. Replacing him is simple if he decides he doesn't want to be here.

I like the kid, he's scrappy and gives good effort. He's just not a high level basketball player. I mean he can barely hit the rim for god's sake.

12/6/2013 2:43:00 AM

Lewis is capable. Is he better than Cat, night in and night out? I don't know about that, but he would be capable. I think hes better suited as the backup behind Cat getting around 15 minutes per game.

12/6/2013 3:10:38 AM

Lewis is a big reason we have the worst free throw defense in the NCAA

12/6/2013 8:37:46 AM