who the fuck cares if it has porn and if you change the rating to 'adults only'

kids who are going to buy the game are going to buy the game anyways. esrb ratings are as good as russian rubles

kids who will install this mod will definitely know how to download porn and watch that as well - you're fucking lucky this shit is milder than the free video porn all over the net. the only way to stop them from watching porn completely is to keep the computer in a public place and watch what they do. all your ratings systems for games, movies, and anything else won't do a damn bit of good.

so stop making such a big goddamn deal about it.

/rant

7/13/2005 8:24:11 AM

Didn't realize there was a San Andreas expansion for GTA2. Is it like London 1969?

7/13/2005 8:28:13 AM

<-- n00b to gta

rant still stands.

7/13/2005 8:31:33 AM

i had that shit on dreamcast

DREAMCAST

7/13/2005 10:25:22 AM

http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=327152

7/13/2005 10:27:48 AM

Yeah that would be GTA5.

7/13/2005 1:24:32 PM

Nah, it's Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. Rockstar said they'd be putting out Grand Theft Auto 4 on the next-gen systems. Arguably San Andreas is a GTA3 expansion, but that's not the side I'd take.

7/13/2005 2:54:54 PM

this is a big deal because no major retailer will stock adult-rated games. and if it's not on the shelf at Wal*Mart, mommy isn't going to buy it.

7/13/2005 3:53:34 PM

Who is it you are arguing against dF?

This whole thing is very confusing.

7/13/2005 4:39:48 PM

Sort of like how Wal-Mart said they wouldn't stock games rated M (or MA back then) a few years ago?

Oh, wait.

7/13/2005 5:21:04 PM

i dunno about what walmart has said or done in the past but i can guarantee you that they won't touch adult rated material with a fifty foot pole. same goes for best buy, circuit city and all the rest.

7/13/2005 6:24:29 PM

What?

Who cares about bad games?

7/13/2005 6:37:53 PM

^^Uh you know Best Buy sells Doom 3, GTA:SA, Res Evil 4, etc. It doesn't get much bloodier/violent then those games.

7/13/2005 7:38:39 PM

But they're all rated M. Ao games are few and far between, and would carry a stigma not associated with M rated games.

Remember when Showgirls came out? Remember how a bunch of cinemas refused to show it?

7/13/2005 7:40:02 PM

the content isn't the issue. it's the rating. which is supposedly tied to content. and probably is but it's a pretty loose connection. walmart and other mainstream companies will never stock adult material. the hidden sex scenes in GTA would clearly have caused the game to receive an adult rating had they been disclosed (as they were required by law to have been) when the game was given its rating. this is a big deal and it will most likely cause the game to be pulled from major retailers:

Quote :

""An AO rating is the commercial kiss of death in the industry because major retailers won't sell the game." http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/13/earlyshow/living/parenting/main708794.shtml"

Knowing this to be the case, Rockstar now says that this is "the work of a determined group of hackers who have gone to significant trouble to alter scenes in the official version of the game."

http://news.com.com/GTA+publisher+blames+sex+mod+on+hackers/2100-1043_3-5786900.html

What they aren't addressing is why the official version of the game can be altered in this way. If the explicit scenes weren't in the game, there would be nothing to alter.

7/13/2005 8:08:06 PM

What we are saying here is that Rockstar messed up right? Not that they were trying to get some hardcore stuff to the kids of Amurica.

I figure once they realized that the extra content would give them an Adult rating, they took it out, but accidentally(sloppily) left it on the disk. I imagine something happening like the following:
the department in charge of ratings said "take this out" and another department just took it out of the working game but not the disk, thinking that was enough. Then they told the first department that it was taken out.

Whether anyone realized this mistake before now I don't know.

7/13/2005 9:12:07 PM

this is fucking cool though

7/14/2005 7:46:01 AM

WOW

Quote :

"Sen. Clinton seeks 'Grand Theft' sex scene probe Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:01 PM BST Printer Friendly | Email Article | RSS By Peter Kaplan WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Sen. Hillary Clinton pressed on Thursday for a government investigation into how simulated sex cropped up in a modified version of the blockbuster criminal adventure video game "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas." Clinton asked the U.S. Federal Trade Commission to investigate the origins of a downloadable modification that allows simulated sex in the personal computer version of one of the most popular and controversial video games in history. "We should all be deeply disturbed that a game which now permits the simulation of lewd sexual acts in an interactive format with highly realistic graphics has fallen into the hands of young people across the country," Clinton wrote in a letter to the head of the Federal Trade Commission. Saying the problem of explicit video games was "spiraling out of control," Clinton also said she was introducing legislation that would crack down on the sale of violent and sex-laden games to minors. The legislation would impose a $5,000 penalty on retailers who sell adult-rated video games to underage children. Clinton asked the FTC to look into whether Grand Theft Auto's rating of "M" (Mature 17+) should be changed to the rare "AO" (Adult Only), which would threaten to crimp sales at large retail outlets. She requested the agency to study whether retailers' enforcement policies were adequate to keep adult-rated video games out of the hands of minors. An FTC spokeswoman said the agency had received Clinton's letter and was reviewing it. Clinton's comments were the latest in a chorus of criticism that has intensified since the revelation about sex scenes in the modified Grand Theft Auto. The game series has drawn numerous detractors because of its sexual and violent content. Players who download a modification, known as "hot coffee," from the Internet can make a male character engage in various sex acts with a virtual "girlfriend." Sex is suggested in the official version of the game, but does not happen on screen. The game's manufacturer, a subsidiary of Take-Two Interactive Software Inc. (TTWO.O: Quote, Profile, Research) called Rockstar Games, has said hackers are responsible for the modification. In a statement released on Thursday, Rockstar said it supported the video game rating system and efforts to keep adult-rated games away from children. But without referring to Clinton, the company said it was "disappointed by comments that misrepresent Grand Theft Auto, detracting from the innovative and artistic merits of the game." "Unfortunately, the recent confusion only serves to suggest that games do not deserve the same treatment as other forms of creative expression," Rockstar said in its statement. The Entertainment Software Rating Board last week launched a probe into whether the sexual minigame content was deliberately hidden in the game code and unlocked by the "hot coffee" modification, or if it was solely the result of the modification. The "hot coffee" modification, which violates the game's software user agreement, is the result of hackers disassembling and then combining, recompiling and altering the game's source code, Rockstar said. The PlayStation2 (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) version of "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" was the No. 1 game of 2004, selling just over 5 million copies, according to industry researcher NPD Funworld. "

7/14/2005 6:38:21 PM

You know, the more I think about it, the less cut and dry it seems.

I guess it might depend on how much effort it takes to get the mini-games.

One extreme would be if it were as easy as entering a gameshark code.
The other would be if it were more of a mod than an unlocked peice of code.

Where between those two does this fall, and where between those two is the line?

7/14/2005 6:42:38 PM

i'd say if they have to break the EULA to get to it than its not part of the gameplay and shouldn't factor into the rating.

If i removed the breaks from my car i wouldn't blame the maker when i crashed it into a wall.

7/14/2005 6:50:39 PM

That's a good point.

7/14/2005 6:52:41 PM

yes, but the point still remains that the porn was still on the disc.

this is completely different from some kid making a hack for a game where all of the characters are nude.

7/15/2005 12:32:32 AM

how do you know porn is coded in the commercial version of the game?

7/15/2005 12:35:19 AM

Quote :

"the point still remains that the porn was still on the disc"

Not really.

It was taken out of the game, and therefore there's no way to get to it without

(a) a shitload of work involving disassembly, recoding, and recompiling, or
(b) downloading a mod.

I don't see how Rockstar is responsible for either one. To me it seems a lot like the old "Nude Raider" patch.

7/15/2005 12:36:50 AM

Quote :

"the hidden sex scenes in GTA would clearly have caused the game to receive an adult rating had they been disclosed (as they were required by law to have been) when the game was given its rating. this is a big deal and it will most likely cause the game to be pulled from major retailers:"

since when is ANY of this stuff law? game ratings and movie ratings are industry standards as far as i know and not laws. maybe i'm wrong.

7/15/2005 12:43:36 AM

Quote :

"i'd say if they have to break the EULA to get to it than its not part of the gameplay and shouldn't factor into the rating. If i removed the breaks from my car i wouldn't blame the maker when i crashed it into a wall."

This would be the logical take (spelling aside).



However, I don't hold out hope that our elected officials will be that rational.

[Edited on July 15, 2005 at 1:29 AM. Reason : ]

7/15/2005 1:29:23 AM

That's a good point.

7/15/2005 3:54:20 AM

-ZiP!-

7/15/2005 7:47:14 AM

I wonder if these people raising so much hubbub about the sex scenes in this game have ever heard of Leisure Suit Larry?

7/15/2005 9:43:13 AM

In Vice City, you playing a freaking drug baron. I mean, people complained about that game too, but no one seemed to think that should warrant an AO rating. But now you're having sex. OH NOES!!!

7/15/2005 9:59:35 AM

Quote :

"game ratings and movie ratings are industry standards as far as i know and not laws. maybe i'm wrong."

yeah, i think you're right about this. so let me retract the statement about being required by law.

although i dont' know for sure, i would imagine that like movies, submitting a video game to be rated is voluntary. if it's unrated then so be it. but just like the AO rating, major retailers will stay away from unrated games (although they don't seem to mind unrated "bonus material" that is now being added to dvds).

perhaps GTA should say "bonus material unrated"...

[Edited on July 15, 2005 at 12:50 PM. Reason : asdf]

7/15/2005 12:48:48 PM

Quote :

"It was taken out of the game, and therefore there's no way to get to it without (a) a shitload of work involving disassembly, recoding, and recompiling, or (b) downloading a mod. I don't see how Rockstar is responsible for either one"

look at what rockstar is saying:

Quote :

"In a statement on Wednesday, Rockstar claimed it is not responsible for the so-called "Hot Coffee" mod. Instead, the Take-Two Interactive subsidiary said the mod was the result of "the work of a determined group of hackers who have gone to significant trouble to alter scenes in the official version of the game." http://news.com.com/GTA+publisher+blames+sex+mod+on+hackers/2100-1043_3-5786900.html"

to me, it's just as revealing to look at what they did not say. they did not say that the altered content was not included on the disc. they did say that hackers had altered scenes (is this really news to anybody?)

the core issue here is where the sex scenes come from. if i worked for rockstar PR, my press release would be much more firm: "this content was not on the disc and it was added by hackers." but they haven't said this (almost certainly because it isn't true). clearly this leads to the only really plausible scenario: that rockstar included the material on the disc and the hackers (perhaps even with help from a rockstar developer) have brought it out.

does anybody here really believe that the hackers wrote the code for the sex routines themselves? i don't believe that for a minute.

[Edited on July 15, 2005 at 1:05 PM. Reason : asdf]

7/15/2005 1:02:07 PM

That's just stupid.

7/15/2005 1:49:27 PM

Quote :

">>>>>>>> Hot Coffee (After Successful Date) >>>>>>>> WARNING: Uncensored Hot Coffee CODE >>>>>>>> UNLOCKS ADULT CONTENT HIDDEN BY ROCKSTAR GAMES >>>>>>>> 7UZJ-9YW8-0T45Z >>>>>>>> 8UQH-1851-EZQPC"

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/index.php#hot-coffee-on-ps2-112800

7/17/2005 2:21:14 PM

it can be seen on the xbox as well. apparently, rockstar has fucked up... actually, it was that modder that caused this fiasco. he should be sued, because he had to reverse engineer that code to get into the game to unlock the content.

http://forums.gamespot.com/gamespot/show_messages.php?board=925634&topic=22224850&page=0

7/17/2005 9:29:01 PM

Quote :

""Grand Theft Auto" publisher Rockstar Games says the game's designers did not create that content. Not so, says the programmer, Patrick Wildenborg. He insists his "mod" merely unlocks code that was already hidden in the game's retail version. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050719/ap_on_hi_te/grading_video_games"

which do you think is more likely to be telling the truth?

7/19/2005 10:40:02 AM

just look at the file size of the patch. that should give you some idea of who's lying.

7/19/2005 10:48:15 AM

how big is the patch? i don't own this game...

7/19/2005 12:37:09 PM

Quote :

"The video game industry on Wednesday changed to adults-only the rating of "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas," a best-selling game in which explicit sexual content can be unlocked with an Internet download. The decision followed intense pressure from politicians and media watch groups, and retailers reacted swiftly — Wal-Mart Stores Inc., Target Corp. and Best Buy Co. said they would immediately pull all copies from their store shelves nationwide. The game's producer, Rockstar Games, said it stopped making the current version and would provide new labels to any retailer willing to keep selling the games, which had been rated "M" for mature. The company also will offer a downloadable patch to fix the sex issue in PC versions, and is working on a new, more secure version, to be rated "M." Rockstar's parent company, New York-based Take Two Interactive Software Inc., also admitted for the first time that the sex scenes had been built into the retail version of that game — not just the PC version but also those written for Xbox and PlayStation2 consoles. Company officials had previously suggested that a modification created by outsiders added the scenes. Take-Two spokesman Jim Ankner acknowledged in an Associated Press interview that the questioned scenes were created by Rockstar programmers. "The editing and finalization of any game is a complicated task and it's not uncommon for unused and unfinished content to remain on the disc," he said. In a statement, the president of the Entertainment Software Rating Board said the sex scenes were programmed by Rockstar "to be inaccessible to the player." But ESRB chief Patricia Vance also acknowledged that the "credibility and utility" of the industry-run board's initial "M" rating had been "seriously undermined." Many retailers sell "M" rated games, which "may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older," according to the Entertainment Software Rating Board, but won't sell "AO"-labeled games at all. "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" was last year's top console game, selling more than 5.1 million copies in the U.S. after its October release, according to market analyst NPD Group. Xbox and PC versions were released last month. Take-Two said net sales could drop by more than $50 million this quarter, and lowered its financial expectations for the year to set aside funds for returns of the games. Guidance was reduced to $1.05 to $1.12 per share on $1.26 billion to $1.31 billion in sales from a prior estimate of $1.40 to $1.47 per share and sales of $1.3 billion to $1.35 billion. Shares of Take-Two rose 12 cents to close at $27.07 on the Nasdaq, but later dropped $1.81, or 6.7 percent, to $25.26 in after-hours activity after falling more than 11 percent when the decision was announced. The stock has traded between $19.26 and $29.60 over the past year. The rating change is vindication for Patrick Wildenborg, the Dutch programmer who developed the "hot coffee" modification and made downloads freely available on the Internet. Wildenborg had told the AP that his "mod" merely allowed the user to gain access to pre-existing content in game. Such "mods" are wildly popular among the hardcore gaming community, and have been shown to extend the retail longevity of games like "Half-Life," which is still sold years after its first release because of a popular "Counter-Strike" mod that allows for detailed counter-terrorist shoot'em-up action. Take-Two president Paul Eibeler said in a statement that "the decision to re-rate a game based on an unauthorized third party modification presents a new challenge for parents, the interactive entertainment industry and anyone who distributes or consumes digital content." The developments did little to appease Sen. Hilary Rodham Clinton, D-New York, who applauded the ESRB investigation but remained disturbed that the sex content appeared on store shelves in the first place. "Apparently the sexual material was embedded in the game. The company admitted that," Clinton said. "But the fact remains that the company gamed the ratings system." Clinton has asked the Federal Trade Commission to investigate, and said the ESRB must do more to police content. "I think that the rating board has to be vigilant and really make sure that it's as thorough as it can be and not just take the game makers' word as to what's on there," Clinton said. Best Buy echoed that, saying it hopes its decision to stop selling the game will "send a strong message to game developers encouraging full cooperation with the ESRB." The Parents Television Council, one of several media watchdogs that have criticized Rockstar and the ESRB, called on the game publisher to voluntarily recall the game and offer refunds to purchasers. Instead, Rockstar has agreed to exchange unsold inventory with new, "M" rated versions that "have the hidden content removed," the ESRB said. "I tip my cap to that first step of showing responsibility," said Tim Winter, the council's executive director. "Phase two needs to be absolutely getting to the bottom of this coding issue. How did it get into that game? How did it get past the ratings board?" http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/video_game_sex;_ylt=AlRj1_XvlV.XZVbvocDLmbqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-"

7/20/2005 10:03:25 PM

Quote :

"How did it get past the ratings board?""

DRAHHHH, by it not being accessible without haxxing?

7/21/2005 12:17:27 AM

i say it's like outlawing alcohol. it just makes it more popular, but harder to get. people will surely start downloading it more - illegally of course.

7/21/2005 6:57:11 AM

It's like outlawing grapes.

Cause they can be made into alcohol.

7/21/2005 12:56:33 PM

I work at Best Buy and we had to pull them of the shelf last night. It is interesting though, my roommate works at Toys R Us and they are not pulling them (yet).

7/21/2005 4:25:48 PM

What are you doing with them? sending them back, or just letting them collect dust on a shelf?

7/21/2005 4:26:43 PM

They'll be bought back by Rockstar no doubt. This is fucked up. It's like that episode of Southpark where they kill Butters with throwing stars but Cartman gets in trouble because he was naked.

If retailers weren't such pussies this would be great publicity though.

7/21/2005 5:35:59 PM

Should a E game be changed to M because someone named a variable "fuck" in the code?

7/21/2005 6:02:39 PM

haha this guy wrote an awesome letter to Sen. Clinton

Quote :

"IN THE WAKE of Hot Coffeegate author Steven Johnson, the man behind "Everything Bad Is Good For You", has written an open letter to Senator Hillary Clinton, the woman largely behind launching the avalanche that has buried Take Two, Rockstar and half the gaming industry up to its neck in trouble. We’ll let the letter do the talking. "Dear Sen. Clinton: "I'm writing to commend you for calling for a $90-million study on the effects of video games on children, and in particular the courageous stand you have taken in recent weeks against the notorious "Grand Theft Auto" series. "I'd like to draw your attention to another game whose nonstop violence and hostility has captured the attention of millions of kids — a game that instills aggressive thoughts in the minds of its players, some of whom have gone on to commit real-world acts of violence and sexual assault after playing. "I'm talking, of course, about high school football. "I know a congressional investigation into football won't play so well with those crucial swing voters, but it makes about as much sense as an investigation into the pressing issue that is Xbox and PlayStation 2. "Your current concern is over explicit sex in "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas." Yet there's not much to investigate, is there? It should get rated appropriately, and that's that. But there's more to your proposed study: You want to examine how video games shape children's values and cognitive development. "Kids have always played games. A hundred years ago they were playing stickball and kick the can; now they're playing "World of Warcraft," "Halo 2" and "Madden 2005." And parents have to drag their kids away from the games to get them to do their algebra homework, but parents have been dragging kids away from whatever the kids were into since the dawn of civilization. "So any sensible investigation into video games must ask the "compared to what" question. If the alternative to playing "Halo 2" is reading "The Portrait of a Lady," then of course "The Portrait of a Lady" is better for you. But it's not as though kids have been reading Henry James for 100 years and then suddenly dropped him for Pokemon. "Another key question: Of all the games that kids play, which ones require the most mental exertion? Parents can play this at home: Try a few rounds of Monopoly or Go Fish with your kids, and see who wins. I suspect most families will find that it's a relatively even match. Then sit down and try to play "Halo 2" with the kids. You'll be lucky if you survive 10 minutes. "The great secret of today's video games that has been lost in the moral panic over "Grand Theft Auto" is how difficult the games have become. That difficulty is not merely a question of hand-eye coordination; most of today's games force kids to learn complex rule systems, master challenging new interfaces, follow dozens of shifting variables in real time and prioritize between multiple objectives. "In short, precisely the sorts of skills that they're going to need in the digital workplace of tomorrow. "Consider this one fascinating trend among teenagers: They're spending less time watching professional sports and more time simulating those sports on Xbox or PlayStation. Now, which activity challenges the mind more — sitting around rooting for the Packers, or managing an entire football franchise through a season of "Madden 2005": calling plays, setting lineups, trading players and negotiating contracts? Which challenges the mind more — zoning out to the lives of fictional characters on a televised soap opera, or actively managing the lives of dozens of virtual characters in a game such as "The Sims"? "On to the issue of aggression, and what causes it in kids, especially teenage boys. Congress should be interested in the facts: The last 10 years have seen the release of many popular violent games, including "Quake" and "Grand Theft Auto"; that period has also seen the most dramatic drop in violent crime in recent memory. According to Duke University's Child Well-Being Index, today's kids are less violent than kids have been at any time since the study began in 1975. Perhaps, Sen. Clinton, your investigation should explore the theory that violent games function as a safety valve, letting children explore their natural aggression without acting it out in the real world. "Many juvenile crimes — such as the carjacking that is so central to "Grand Theft Auto" — are conventionally described as "thrill-seeking" crimes. Isn't it possible that kids no longer need real-world environments to get those thrills, now that the games simulate them so vividly? The national carjacking rate has dropped substantially since "Grand Theft Auto" came out. Isn't it conceivable that the would-be carjackers are now getting their thrills on the screen instead of the street? "Crime statistics are not the only sign that today's gaming generation is doing much better than the generation raised during the last cultural panic — over rock 'n' roll. Math SAT scores have never been higher; verbal scores have been climbing steadily for the last five years; nearly every indicator in the Department of Education study known as the Nation's Report Card is higher now than when the study was implemented in 1971. "By almost every measure, the kids are all right. "Of course, I admit that there's one charge against video games that is a slam dunk. Kids don't get physical exercise when they play a video game, and indeed the rise in obesity among younger people is a serious issue. But, of course, you don't get exercise from doing homework either.""

8/1/2005 10:31:46 AM

damn, nice letter

8/1/2005 10:36:14 AM

Just so everyone knows "excatly" what all the hype is about, and how bad/or not bad the stuff is, here's the video:

Quote :

" The Grand Theft Auto "hot coffee" mod that has Hilary Clinton all worked up (warning: possibly the least erotic sex ever within) "

http://www.collegehumor.com/movies/1597046/

8/1/2005 6:01:58 PM