Quote :

"Soldier's mom digs in near Bush ranch Senator sees 'echoes of Vietnam' in vigil to meet president CRAWFORD, Texas (CNN) -- A mother whose son was killed in Iraq says she is prepared to continue her protest outside President Bush's ranch through August until she is granted an opportunity to speak with him. Later, in a TV interview, a Democratic senator from California said the episode evokes images that were commonplace during the Vietnam War. Cindy Sheehan's 24-year-old son -- Army Spc. Casey Sheehan of Vacaville, California -- was killed in Baghdad's Sadr City on April 4, 2004. The Humvee mechanic was one of eight U.S. soldiers killed there that day by rocket-propelled grenades and small arms fire. (Full story) They are among the 1,829 American troops, including 31 this month, who have died in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003. The president -- who is spending a nearly five-week-long working vacation at his Texas ranch -- said in a speech Wednesday that the sacrifices of U.S. troops were "made in a noble cause." (Full story) Sheehan said she found little comfort in his comments. "I want to ask the president, why did he kill my son?" Sheehan told reporters. "He said my son died in a noble cause, and I want to ask him what that noble cause is." Sheehan said hers was one of a group of about 15 families who each met separately with the president one day last June. "He wouldn't look at the pictures of Casey. He didn't even know Casey's name," she told CNN Sunday. "Every time we tried to talk about Casey and how much we missed him, he would change the subject." Sheehan said she was so distraught at the time that she failed to ask the questions she now wants answered. "I want him to honor my son by bringing the troops home immediately," Sheehan told reporters Saturday. "I don't want him to use my son's name or my name to justify any more killing.""

So, your son's dead...GET OVER IT!

8/8/2005 8:59:15 AM

8/8/2005 9:05:40 AM

that mom is crazy, she needs to get over it and get on with her meaningless life

[Edited on August 8, 2005 at 9:23 AM. Reason : ]

8/8/2005 9:23:15 AM

Quote :

"I want to ask the president, why did he kill my son?"

While you're at it, see if he can tell you why he killed Peter Jennings too.

Maybe we should ship this woman to war.

8/8/2005 9:30:57 AM

obviously her son thought he was dying for something important and that it was something he had to do...she needs to get the fuck over it, he died for his country and it was his choice more or less...he knew what could happen

[Edited on August 8, 2005 at 9:37 AM. Reason : ]

8/8/2005 9:36:53 AM

Quote :

"obviously her son thought he was dying for something important "

how do you know that?

8/8/2005 9:39:42 AM

what I can't stand is a friend of mine who is dating a GI over in Iraq right now. The dude signed up for the national guard to pay his tuition. 9/11 happened. Guess what happened to most national guard folks... they got called up. His girlfriend was bitching to me how, "oh, he's fighting in a war he doesn't believe in... he's over there and doesn't agree with it."

and then I said to her, as sensitvely as I could possibly say it:

HE FUCKING SIGNED UP AND RECEIVED GOVERNMENT MONEY TO GO TO SCHOOL! YOU CAN'T FUCKING ACT LIKE A FUCKING PUSSY NOW AND SAY YOU DON'T AGREE WITH IT. YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THE WAR? DON'T TAKE THE FUCKING MONEY. FUCK! I FEEL ZERO SYMPATHY FOR YOU, FOR HIM, AND ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD POSSIBLY MAKE THE EXCUSE THAT YOU ARE. SO SHUT THE FUCK UP AND SIT THE FUCK DOWN. WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, NEVER TALK TO ME AGAIN.

[Edited on August 8, 2005 at 9:45 AM. Reason : .]

8/8/2005 9:39:58 AM

Quote :

" HE FUCKING SIGNED UP AND RECEIVED GOVERNMENT MONEY TO GO TO SCHOOL! YOU CAN'T FUCKING ACT LIKE A FUCKING PUSSY NOW AND SAY YOU DON'T AGREE WITH IT. YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THE WAR? DON'T TAKE THE FUCKING MONEY. FUCK! I FEEL ZERO SYMPATHY FOR YOU, FOR HIM, AND ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD POSSIBLY MAKE THE EXCUSE THAT YOU ARE. SO SHUT THE FUCK UP AND SIT THE FUCK DOWN. WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, NEVER TALK TO ME AGAIN."

I feel the same way when Bush voters refuse to enlist into the Army or Marines.

8/8/2005 9:49:00 AM

Ever heard of a volunteer army?

Do you support the police? How about the firefighters? healthcare in general?

WHY THE FUCK AREN'T YOU A COP, OR A VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER, OR A VOLUNTEER PISS CLEANER-UPPER AT REX?

What a weak argument.

8/8/2005 9:50:53 AM

yeah i agree to some extent ab^^. but you have to remember most recuitment pre-9/11 involved showing how you will train for 4 years with the Military then you can go ahead and leave/go to school/enter the workforce.

the military touted itself as an out (sitll does) to those who couldnt get out of their life-handed rut. But no one, not even the military thought you'd be deploying half our forces in the early 00's. No one seriously thought we'd be a war anytime soon. Unless you knew W. was gonna invade Iraq...which by the memos.....you get my drift...

but our army isnt volunteer anymore...you get paid for it. its a CAREER. see pay = job. no pay = volunteer.

[Edited on August 8, 2005 at 9:53 AM. Reason : double ^^]

8/8/2005 9:51:46 AM

^ But you know that you could be called up at a moment's notice. You know that when you sign the dotted line. The case is, if you don't want to fight, don't sign up.

8/8/2005 9:53:48 AM

dude, have any of you ever lost a child or someone that close to you? No, she shouldn't blame president bush completely for what happened, but she does have a valid reason to want to speak with him. There are thousands upon thousands of others who are have equally or more important reasons to want to, but can't you understand?

Quote :

"that mom is crazy, she needs to get over it and get on with her meaningless life"

heartless

8/8/2005 10:29:38 AM

and she had the opprotunity in June of last year and she didn't ask the questions she wanted answered. Oh and what a surprise this woman is from the land of fruit and nuts.

8/8/2005 10:38:42 AM

The thing that pisses me off is that the kid wasn't forced to go. It's a volunteer military. He signed up. If he was drafted, then sure, the mother may have her point made.

8/8/2005 11:10:00 AM

Just more of people using outdated anti-war tactics from the Vietnam era.

8/8/2005 11:14:16 AM

Quote :

"obviously her son thought he was dying for something important and that it was something he had to do"

It probably had more about him "having to do it" moreso than him "thinking it was important". Look here in america. We have thousands of people who "think it's important", however we have many less that "have to do it".

Quote :

"The thing that pisses me off is that the kid wasn't forced to go. It's a volunteer military."

WHat if you join the military thinking you would be only sent to war in order to prevent invasion of our country, you are then forced to fight a bunch of arabs who pose NO threat to america, just to fulfill some sort of political motives.

[Edited on August 8, 2005 at 11:19 AM. Reason : ]

8/8/2005 11:16:48 AM

abonorio

Maybe he doesn't agree with this particular war? I'd be pretty pissed too if my secretary of defense treated my unit and me like a stat sheet on MS Excell.

8/8/2005 11:18:23 AM

Regardless of whether or not he agreed, he surrendered his ability to choose when he enlisted. This is how the whole "following orders" thing works.

8/8/2005 11:21:48 AM

Well obviously he "followed orders" but he doesn't have to agree with the orders he followed.

8/8/2005 11:23:57 AM

I hate that her son died, and it's tragic when anyone dies. But Bush has his hands full running the most powerful nation in the world. If he stopped to chat with every Tom, Dick and Harry that has disagrees with his decisions, then he wouldn't get any work done. Sure her son died, but so have 1800 + others. You just can't expect Bush to personally console each of those families. As bad as it sounds...he's got more important things to do than manage the emotions of all these mourning families.

8/8/2005 11:28:46 AM

^^ He made the choice to enlist so it doesn't matter whether or not he agreed.

8/8/2005 11:30:57 AM

Quote :

"WHat if you join the military thinking you would be only sent to war in order to prevent invasion of our country, you are then forced to fight a bunch of arabs who pose NO threat to america, just to fulfill some sort of political motives. "

When was the last time America's armies fought a war to prevent or in response to the invasion of our country?

8/8/2005 11:34:07 AM

^ Exactly. I don't care what your beliefs are. When you sign a contract, you're bound and you can't get out of it by saying "ohh, I don't agree with this."

You don't want to fight? Don't sign up.

8/8/2005 11:37:52 AM

Quote :

"When was the last time America's armies fought a war to prevent or in response to the invasion of our country?"

WW2.

Quote :

"Regardless of whether or not he agreed, he surrendered his ability to choose when he enlisted."

I agree, but it's still fucked up when the president sents troops to fight a completely unneccesary war.

8/8/2005 11:43:57 AM

^ And that's where the debate should be. If you don't agree with the war, then we can talk about this. But debating if this woman is correct in asserting the GW killed her son... well... that's just ridiculous and I think we all can see that.

8/8/2005 12:02:08 PM

Well he did force him to a warzone for no good reason. I could see that getting shortened to "GWB killed my kid"

8/8/2005 12:07:48 PM

its not a soldier's right to question the strategic necessity of a war.

it is the human's right to question the morality of a war.

if this serviceman disagreed morally with the war, he deserved to die

8/8/2005 12:08:46 PM

^ if he disagreed morally he could have sought conscientious objector status

[Edited on August 8, 2005 at 12:17 PM. Reason : yep]

8/8/2005 12:14:43 PM

Quote :

"He made the choice to enlist"

8/8/2005 12:15:28 PM

The claim that GW killed this woman's son is as ridiculous as the claims that GW piloted the plane that flew into the WTC... I've heard that one too.

8/8/2005 12:22:40 PM

now now, we all know saddam flew that plane

8/8/2005 12:24:10 PM

^ haha. Touche.

8/8/2005 12:26:46 PM

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4.htm

/thread

8/8/2005 1:19:35 PM

Ok that does it. I didn't want to attack a grieving mother, but fuck that bitch.

fuck her.

8/8/2005 1:33:38 PM

Quote :

""I want him to honor my son by bringing the troops home immediately," Sheehan told reporters Saturday. "I don't want him to use my son's name or my name to justify any more killing.""

Well I'm sure that your son wanted you to use his name for your politics.

8/8/2005 1:38:40 PM

^haha... exactly.

It kind of reminds me of how one political candidate's wife, who was married to a republican senator who was filthy rich... I think he was some sort of tomato product manufacturer... he died and his ex wife, still retaining her married name, marries a member of the opposing political party... and uses her former husband's wealth to fund an array of programs that I'm sure the deceased man would never want his money going towards...

who am I thinking of?

8/8/2005 1:44:27 PM

don't use the name of my late-senator for your fucking partisan bullshit.

and none of you know how her son felt about the war. Her son could have been adamantly against it.

8/8/2005 1:51:58 PM

^ doesn't matter.

And I wasn't using the name of Senator Heinz for partisan bullshit... no, his wife did that.

8/8/2005 1:56:46 PM

Its nice and easy for you guys to sit here and say

VOLUNTEER ARMY THEY SHOULD JUST STFU

8/8/2005 1:58:22 PM

Sure it is, because I understand the concept of "you don't want to fight, don't sign up."

8/8/2005 2:03:16 PM

You are extremly idealistic.

Carry on.

8/8/2005 2:04:17 PM

^^That doesn't give the government an open ticket to seend thousands of us soliders to their deaths needlessly.

8/8/2005 2:31:15 PM

the president has a responsibility to only use force when absolutely necessary. i think the woman has a case that this wasn't absolutely necessary. iraq posed no immediate (or long-term, probably) threat to the united states. the botched execution of the war has probably caused instability rather than the sought-after stability. last time i checked, she didn't sign the dotted line and has just as much right as anyone else to protest. she lost her son to a war that was used to win a re-election. she has every right to be pissed.

8/8/2005 2:47:08 PM

I for one am glad someone is willing to sacrifice for me and my freedoms.

You know

So there isn't mandatory conscription.

And for his or sacrifice, I think its only fair that I respect and try to honor said soldiers opinions.

8/8/2005 3:41:58 PM

Quote :

"the president has a responsibility to only use force when absolutely necessary. i think the woman has a case that this wasn't absolutely necessary. iraq posed no immediate (or long-term, probably) threat to the united states. the botched execution of the war has probably caused instability rather than the sought-after stability."

the point is, its not the soldier's job to make that sort of strategic decision. the soldier has neither the info nor the legitimacy to make that determination. if he wants it, then he should either become an advisor to the president or become the president himself.

otherwise he needs to stfu and do his job

8/8/2005 3:44:05 PM

nerdBoy

If you notice

The soldier isn't complaining.

He's dead.

Its his mom thats challenging the presidents judgement.

Which under our constitution, she can.

8/8/2005 3:47:51 PM

i know that.

however, plenty of servicemen are saying the same thing the mom's saying

so that's why i worded it the way i did

8/8/2005 3:56:20 PM

I hope she enjoys sitting outside his ranch, because I kind of doubt he is going to invite her in for beer and pretzels.

8/8/2005 4:00:43 PM

DEFINITELY NOT PRETZELS.

8/8/2005 4:04:11 PM

^ dude, they don't deserve to die because they disagree with something

8/8/2005 4:04:35 PM