i have a 1988 toyota celica with 194800 miles. it's a stick shift. for its age it runs okay. but it is getting increasingly difficult to shift into first gear. none of the other gears are a problem. it's especially hard to shift into first gear from a stop. if i'm approacing a stop sign or something i'll downshift into 2nd gear to slow down and then ease into 1st gear as i prepare to stop. this isn't bad at all. however, sometimes doing this causes the car to kind of shake back and forth as i let off the clutch. if i'm sitting at a dead stop at a light it's hard to shift into first gear when the light turns green. sometimes i have to let the clutch out and push the clutch in and try again before i can get it to go into first gear. any thoughts?

8/10/2005 7:00:50 PM

I had something similar with my Ranger with 190k miles on it. We couldn't get it into ANY gear at one point. The only thing that we did to get it fixed was to change the transmission fluid. Worked great and now it shifts just fine.

8/10/2005 7:05:29 PM

clutch time.

Actually, the symptoms you describe relate most closely to clutch hydraulics (master and slave cylinder). The clutch master cylinder has a fluid reservoir just like your brakes do. You need to check the fluid first and foremost. Could be that you are low on fluid or have a leak.

If it has a cable instead (which I don't think it does), it may be out of adjustment.

It could be that the clutch is just plain worn out...actually, the diaphragm spring in the pressure plate may be very fatigued and incompletely releasing, especially with that number of miles, and especially if it's never been replaced. I would check the hydraulics issue first.

8/10/2005 7:09:24 PM

Still wouldn't hurt to change the transmission fluid. Put fully synthetic Redline MT-90 in there. That's among the best shit you can get, and I have it in my rx-7 with 149k on the tranny. It shifts just fine. You'll probably have to order it online or pick it up from a speed shop.

8/10/2005 7:14:50 PM

Fuck that. Just go to Advance or Car Quest and pick up some 75w90 synthetic Valvoline or Autozone to get Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil. No need to unload beaucoup d'argent for Redline, especially on a car this old.

I bet money that this problem isn't gear lube related, unless the damn thing has leaked it all out.

8/10/2005 7:16:59 PM

should have said that i got a new clutch in 2002. so i don't think that's the problem. i can def check the fluids.

the slave cylinder on my wife's car (1998 honda accord) went out about a year ago. at that time, i learned that the classic test for a failing slave cylinder is to go to a flat place, put the car into gear and hold the clutch down. if it starts to roll forward (with your foot still on the clutch) then that indicates a problem with the slave cylinder. i don't have this problem.

anybody know a similar for the master?

8/10/2005 7:18:31 PM

just go outside and check the hydraulic fluid in the clutch.

come back in 5 minutes and tell us if that was the problem.

8/10/2005 7:30:42 PM

how do i check the hydraulic fluid level?

8/10/2005 7:41:53 PM

Pop the cap off of the little reservoir next to the brake fluid reservoir.

8/10/2005 7:43:44 PM

sounds like





aw fuck it i dont care anymore

8/10/2005 7:59:10 PM

Optimus were you about to say synco's?
just curious

8/10/2005 8:24:57 PM

your clutch is fine if it doesn't give you any problems in any other gear.

it's probably just your first gear synchronizers. down shifting into first isn't necessary so i would just stop doing it and once you get to a stop, let the clutch out in neutral and then put it into first. kinda like you said you were having to do.

8/10/2005 8:42:40 PM

that was my thought. Used to be called double clutching, and that's how race car drivers did it in the old days.

although it could still be the fluid level. pumping the clutch pedal could give it enough boost to engage it properly the second time.

8/10/2005 8:51:21 PM

Oh and I meant to say sychros (synchromesh)

8/10/2005 8:53:02 PM

took 10 posts to get to the synchros

8/10/2005 9:01:53 PM

one step at a time.

dont wanna scare the kid and tell him he needs his tranny rebuilt.

8/10/2005 9:06:36 PM

Said he's sitting at a dead stop.

Baulk rings (syncro part) don't mean a thing unless moving.

I still stick by incomplete release.

8/10/2005 9:12:24 PM

yeah i was gonna say it sounds like tranny time

8/10/2005 9:14:19 PM

damn, talking about some over-diagnosing here. fuck.

first off, all he needs in that tranny is some 10w-30. he dont need that heavyweight shit.

if the fluid ain't low, then look to replacing the slave cylinder.
it ain't the fuckin' synchros.

dammit people, for the 100th fucking time, when zxappeal answers a question, there is no need for anymore answers. all that is going to do is confuse the hell out of the person with the question.

8/10/2005 9:47:04 PM

i should have re read the original post

but like i said i dont care too much these days

8/10/2005 9:52:52 PM

i got distracted by the peter jennings memorial that was on abc tonight. i'll take a look at the fluids tomorrow...

8/10/2005 10:03:13 PM

Damn...underPSI...you my long lost older brother gettin' my back?

Thanks...I owe you one!

Actually, I would probably be your older brother if that were the case...

[Edited on August 10, 2005 at 10:06 PM. Reason : who's older?]

8/10/2005 10:05:50 PM

Quote :

"if i'm approacing a stop sign or something i'll downshift into 2nd gear to slow down and then ease into 1st gear as i prepare to stop."

that's why i said synchros.

8/10/2005 10:12:43 PM

Nate...if the syncros are shot, then what you get is a tendency to grind, as the baulk ring is worn and doesn't have the proper clearance to properly spin the gear up before engaging.

Difficulty on the downshift spells too thick oil or a clutch that ain't completely releasing.

8/10/2005 10:19:14 PM

Quote :

"or a clutch that ain't completely releasing."

due to shot seals in a slave cylinder.

Quote :

"you my long lost older brother gettin' my back?"

haha, nah, i just know that you know what you are talking about and you don't answer unless you know for sure.
besides, your older anyway.

8/10/2005 10:29:50 PM

8/10/2005 10:46:30 PM

okay here is the pic of the clutch fluid that i promised...

8/18/2005 4:55:45 PM

That is some nasty shit. I wonder if your master cylinder is shot.

Another incomplete release possibility: broken clutch disc hub springs or something else lodging into the pressure plate. But then the pedal would be REALLY hard. I've actually replaced two Honda discs like that.

I've also seen alignment problems cause the same issue, but then it's usually obvious from the get-go once the clutch has been replaced. Another possibility: a fatigued pressure plate diaphragm can also cause incomplete release, but it usually only happens on really old, high mileage pressure plates.

Bottom line: you need to get somebody who knows what they're doing to check it out for you.

8/18/2005 7:08:47 PM

SLAVE CYLINDER

8/18/2005 8:44:58 PM

Yeah, but then the fluid would all be gone. The air would be causing incomplete release.

Furthermore, if this dude were topping it up on a regular basis (because it was all leaking out) the damn fluid wouldn't look like a bad cup of coffee.

8/18/2005 8:59:13 PM

not necessarily. i've had the seals go bad internally and it not leak a drop.

8/18/2005 9:14:11 PM

what is is supposed to look like?

8/18/2005 10:02:10 PM

I had an incomplete release last night

8/18/2005 10:54:44 PM

rub it out big man

8/18/2005 10:56:05 PM

heh... dan, you always make me laugh

8/19/2005 1:32:24 AM

the fluid should be clear or a slight brown tint but still translucent.

it's brake fluid, and your fluid is really dirty, probably because it is old.

8/19/2005 12:59:49 PM

so what do i do? can it be "flushed" and have new stuff put in? could this be the cause of my difficulties shifting into 1st gear?

8/19/2005 2:29:57 PM

when i ws having my clutch release problems i couldn't get it into 1st gear from a stop. mine turned out to be a defective pressure plate, but that cauased the clutch to not fully disengage which could be caused by many things including the slave cylinder. your slave is probably the cheapest part to replace.

8/19/2005 2:42:24 PM

does it shift ok into first if you cut the car off? if so then your clutch isnt releasing enough to match rpms on the gears and shift. basically, when you are stopped, and you shift into first, the drag on the side of the gear teeth grinds the input shft to a stop to engage the gear, if the clutch isnt releasing, then there isnt eneough friction to bog the engine down and go in. it is less of a problem when moving, since you can match rpms and shift without then clutch if you need to.

get a clutch put in it.

8/19/2005 8:40:01 PM

it shifts perfectly if the engine is turned off. and i discovered today that it is not just first gear that is hard to shift into when i'm standing still. every gear is like that. but i had just never tried the other gears because generally i only want to go to first gear.

so the new situation: when i'm stopped, it's hard to shift to any gear. when i'm moving, there is no trouble at all.

any thoughts?

8/22/2005 6:21:17 PM

try double clutching to see if it goes in easier.

i havnt read any of these replies so i dont know if someone has already mentioned it

8/22/2005 6:32:33 PM

Quote :

"so the new situation: when i'm stopped, it's hard to shift to any gear. when i'm moving, there is no trouble at all. any thoughts? "

clutch isn't disengaging, most likely from a hydraulic problem

8/22/2005 10:02:16 PM

why would a hydraulic problem only effect one gear in a synchronized tranny?


you granny shiftin, not double clutchin like you should


the bitch has almost 200k on the clock, id drain & inspect tranny oil.


and to hell with the downshifting. not like you are driving an 80k lb rig where you need it. it is easier & cheaper to replace brakes than clutches & trannys. burn clutches faster when you are downshifting. and im thinking thats the problem here.

8/23/2005 8:37:52 AM

Quote :

"why would a hydraulic problem only effect one gear in a synchronized tranny? "

Quote :

"it's hard to shift to any gear. when i'm moving"

8/23/2005 8:55:53 AM

There are two $8 plastic/nylon bushings that conect to the shifter for smooth shifting; one of the bushings is for the forward gears and the other is for reverse. You don't even have to touch the tranny to fix these and infact, you do it from the inside of the car by removing the shifter boot. These bushings are known to wear out in the older Toyotas. My bro (dealershit Toyo mech.) and I just replaced these in this lady's 92 4-runner that we were looking at buying. She was selling it cheap because she was having trouble getting hers into reverse. We ended up not buying the car because it had been wrecked.

8/23/2005 8:56:06 AM

Quote :

"it is getting increasingly difficult to shift into first gear. none of the other gears are a problem."

8/23/2005 9:00:30 AM

^at the beginning of the thread. if you read 4 or 5 posts up, he updated to say every gear.

8/23/2005 10:34:21 AM

Quote :

"does it shift ok into first if you cut the car off? if so then your clutch isnt releasing enough to match rpms on the gears and shift. basically, when you are stopped, and you shift into first, the drag on the side of the gear teeth grinds the input shft to a stop to engage the gear, if the clutch isnt releasing, then there isnt eneough friction to bog the engine down and go in. it is less of a problem when moving, since you can match rpms and shift without then clutch if you need to. get a clutch put in it. "

did you even read my post?

Quote :

"it shifts perfectly if the engine is turned off. and i discovered today that it is not just first gear that is hard to shift into when i'm standing still. every gear is like that. but i had just never tried the other gears because generally i only want to go to first gear. so the new situation: when i'm stopped, it's hard to shift to any gear. when i'm moving, there is no trouble at all. any thoughts?"

damn , your clutch is not disengaging if you cant troubleshoot it, take it to someone who can, trying to diagnose a problem on the internet without seeing the car is lie trying to talk someone through brain surgery over the phone

8/23/2005 11:14:57 AM

I remember when my old rx7 had a leak from the master cylinder and I would push the cluth to the floor and it was just stick there. that made for some fun driving.

8/23/2005 1:38:23 PM

Alright you fuck tards, the slave or master cylinder is failing more than likely, as has been said over and over..quit trying to talk if you dont know shit. I had this happen on my car in April and on another car about a year ago. It was most noticeable when trying to get it into first, esp before it was really f'ed up. Once you're moving you typically have the rpm's close to where they'll need to be to get into the next gear thus you can get it into gear easier until the slave cylinder seriously fucks up bad, then you're left trying to RPM match and grinding the shit out of every gear. I've seen master cylinders fail and just squirt fluid on the floorboard and I've seen slave cylinders fail and just leak like hell. Fluid loss is probable but not definite.

If the clutch itself were failing it just wouldnt go after you got it into gear and hit the gas. Changing gears would be easier since the clutch wouldnt be doing its job.

Lock this fucking thread, his question has been answered 10x and was answered the first time that zxappeal guy responded, as usual

8/23/2005 3:13:29 PM