8/14/2005 8:42:05 PM

Watch those dirty muslims attack them for giving them back prime real estate

8/14/2005 8:53:45 PM

pulling out ... 99% effective

8/14/2005 10:34:29 PM

Quote :

"residents came under fire from Palestinian militants, Israeli police said. "

FIGURES

8/15/2005 2:21:31 AM

appeasement doesn't really work when your enemy won't settle for anything less than your non-existence.

8/15/2005 3:36:57 AM

Yes, Palestinians clearly = Hitler.

8/15/2005 5:22:24 AM

i wish they would just stop bitching about the jews taking over their land in like 1947 already

shit happened like 50 fucking years ago

8/15/2005 5:24:10 AM

non-Americans tend to have long memories

8/15/2005 5:27:59 AM

...yeah, because no Americans still talk about the outcome of the Cival War, which it quite a bit older then 50 years.

[Edited on August 15, 2005 at 8:16 AM. Reason : hg]

8/15/2005 8:16:21 AM

Your right, I bet most Americans wouldn't even realize what the Cival War was. They'd probably ask you if what you meant was the Civil War.

8/15/2005 9:13:53 AM

Quote :

"Your right"

if you going to criticize someone's spelling/grammar, you damn well better not make mistakes either.

8/15/2005 9:27:47 AM

i dated a girl named gaza. made sure to pull out every time.

8/15/2005 9:38:58 AM

somehow you could have worked "gaza's strip" in there

8/15/2005 11:19:20 AM

sorry, this is pretty long:

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4086.shtml

Quote :

"Compensation if you are displaced, unless you are Palestinian Jeff Handmaker and Adri Nieuwhof, The Electronic Intifada, 15 August 2005 The world's attention is focussed on the "plight" of settler-colonists from the Gaza Strip and some in the West Bank, who have to leave their homes. Daily reports from the local and international press produce countless human interest stories of the trauma of displacement of seemingly innocent settlers, forced to leave behind their home and their livelihoods. But without exception settlers knew that they were moving to an area that was conquered in war. In contracts for the sale or rental of land in the occupied territories there was a clause that explicitly stated their temporary nature.1 At the same time, there is deafening silence on the fact that the construction of the settlements is a violation of international law, as reaffirmed in the advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice, and on how the international community has condoned this illegal situation and is paying for the costs of withdrawal. It is seldom reported that settlers are being compensated. How many realise that each settler family is due to receive an average of several hundred thousand dollars as "compensation"? How many US taxpayers realise that they, not the Israelis, are going to be covering most of the costs for this? And who, for a moment, pauses to reflect on whether Palestinians - some of whom have been deprived of their homes and livelihood for decades - will receive restitution for their own suffering? Paying the piper ... but calling the tune? Despite the fact that the US is paying such a hefty bill for compensating settlers, it would be misleading to think that Israel is simply bearing under pressure from the international community. Certainly it is true that the Security Council, including the US, has long insisted that Israel withdraw to the pre-1967 borders. It is also true that the International Court of Justice (ICJ) had confirmed numerous resolutions and expert reports that the settlements have all been constructed illegally and that they must be dismantled. Yet, none of these demands have been followed up by concrete action. Israel's response has been to ignore the ICJ decision as "irrelevant", accelerate its settlement programme in the West Bank and present the Gaza "withdrawal" as a significant, one-sided "concession", while offering no promises of a full withdrawal from all Occupied Territories. Israel is withdrawing from Gaza because the price it had to pay for the protection was too high and not only in terms of money: more and more soldiers have refused to serve in Gaza. Creating new facts on the ground It is becoming very clear that Israel's objective in continuing its illegal construction of settlements has been to redraw the "facts on the ground" in order to annex additional land for greater "Eretz" Israel. There is no open debate in Israel over this illegal expansion, and the consequences for Palestinians whose homes are destroyed as a result. The dispute boils down to how far Israel's colonial boundaries ought to extend and how to maintain a dominantly Jewish state that the world will accept. Even progressive Israelis who express the "limits of their compassion" for Israeli settlers in Gaza tend to forget to address the issue of Israel's original, forced displacement of over 800.000 Palestinians in 1948. Today, hardly any Israelis are aware that the "Israeli towns" of Ashkelon and Ashdod - where many of the Gaza settlers are likely to be resettled to - were just a couple of generations ago Palestinian towns called Al-Majdal and al-Dalhamiyya, both in the former district of Tiberias.2 While Israel was founding its state, Palestinians were being systematically forced outside what became the borders of Israel, into Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan. Later, Israel's military occupied large parts of these countries, followed by a partial withdrawal where it held onto Gaza, the West Bank, Golan Heights and Southern Lebanon. Israel reaffirmed its intention to keep the newly conquered territories by establishing new settler colonies. The hope was that the remaining Palestinians would simply move on to other countries. Historian Nur Masalha remarked that Israel saw this process as "population exchanges", where numerous options were explored by Israel's early administrators for transferring Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza to Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan and other countries, "in exchange" for the nascent Jewish-Zionist population of Israel.3 It is important to note that both placing settlers and seeking to remove Palestinians amount to two of the gravest violations of international humanitarian law. Right to compensation is universal Palestinians' right to compensation was confirmed this month by the United Nations. Building on July 2005 recommendations of Paulo Sergio Pinheiro, the UN Special Rapporteur on Housing and Property Restitution, the UN aims to ensure universal standards concerning land, housing and property rights of those who are displaced.4 These guidelines are crucial. Firstly, they make clear that no amount of interference by a state deprives individuals of their right to be protected from displacement. Secondly, the guidelines insist that in the event of being arbitrarily deprived of their housing, land or property, they are entitled to restitution and/or compensation. Thirdly, they are entitled to have their claim of restitution/compensation considered by an independent body. The guidelines also provide that governments are required to consult with and ensure there is adequate participation of people who may be affected by displacement.5 Most importantly of all, the guidelines reaffirm the principle of non-discrimination, that everyone has the same rights to be protected, irrespective of race, religion or "other status". Palestinians in Gaza, many of whom were already forcibly displaced in the period leading up to 1948, when Zionist militias sought to create a Jewish majority in Israel, have experienced additional displacement during Israel's occupation of Gaza. They have seen their (second) homes destroyed, their olive trees uprooted, their livestock slaughtered and their livelihoods dissipated by both settlers and soldiers. They too are entitled to restitution and compensation. The Israeli government and its courts have now approved a programme of compensating settlers, which the USA will mostly pay for. At the same time, the Israeli government has been seeking to pass a law that would deprive Palestinians of the right to claim compensation against Israel for violation of any law committed in the Occupied Territories.6 It is the most outrageous double standard, which once again displays the inequality of Jews and Palestinians in Israeli government policy. The struggle continues It is not enough for the world to focus its attention on the "plight" of settlers, who are being very generously compensated for having been used by Sharon and his colleagues as a "human shield" in Occupied Palestinian Territory. While some Palestinians are already celebrating the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, it is important to see this as but one step in the complete withdrawal of Israeli troops from all Occupied Territories. While the world's attention is focussed on the settlers, one must also not forget that Palestinians too are entitled to restitution and compensation. Jeff Handmaker and Adri Nieuwhof are both independent advisors and human rights advocates. Endnotes 1. See: Uri Avnery, 'On limits of compassion for Israeli Settlers in Gaza', Tikkun (11 April 2005) 2. See: PalestineRemembered.com 3. Nur Masalha, The Politics of Denial, 2003 4. See: UN to adopt pathbreaking new global standard which demands return of confiscated refugee land and housing, COHRE (11 August 2005) 5. See: Nieuwhof and Handmaker, 'Haifa, peaceful town with a silent pain' (21 June 2005) 6. See: Israel: Bill Would Deny Compensation for Rights Abuses, HRW (26 June 2005)"

[Edited on August 15, 2005 at 11:31 AM. Reason : /]

8/15/2005 11:31:28 AM

sober46an3, I know... was feeling mean, I guess I appologize.

Quote :

"At the same time, there is deafening silence on the fact that the construction of the settlements is a violation of international law,"

I'm sorry, what international law? I was unaware there was a global government passing binding and legitimate laws which we must all follow...

[Edited on August 15, 2005 at 11:56 AM. Reason : .]

8/15/2005 11:55:00 AM

international law makes me giggle

8/15/2005 1:11:25 PM

International law is good to the extent that it can reasonably be enforced. Claims against Israel can't be enforced because we've got their back on the Security Council and everywhere else.

Of course, the other way in which international law is "binding" is the fact that people will reciprocate. This works to varying degrees in varying countries. You've heard the argument here, "We shouldn't violate the Geneva Conventions at Gitmo cuz then someone will do it to us." This kind of logic doesn't apply to Israel. No matter what they do, they know they're straight fucked if anyone ever takes them over. It's not like playing nice now will secure them good treatment later. In other words, they have no motivation to adhere to much in the way of international law.

8/15/2005 1:56:52 PM

Quote :

"sober46an3, I know... was feeling mean, I guess I appologize. "

dont appologize to me, you were the one that looked stupid.

8/15/2005 2:00:10 PM

8/15/2005 10:31:43 PM

well at least the vultures will mostly only eat the already dead jew-birds

8/15/2005 10:35:29 PM

I wanna hear salisburboy's take on this

8/16/2005 11:16:13 AM

zionist on zionist arrests...

i'd imagine he's a happy camper

8/16/2005 11:24:48 AM

I bet he will try to say the Jews are involved somehow

8/16/2005 4:01:18 PM

Quote :

"the guidelines insist that in the event of being arbitrarily deprived of their housing, land or property, they are entitled to restitution and/or compensation. Thirdly, they are entitled to have their claim of restitution/compensation considered by an independent body."

Native Americans should lodge a complaint with the UN.

8/17/2005 9:33:54 AM

there arent enough of them and last time i checked, the un cant back up its shit with military action

8/17/2005 10:05:10 AM

According to the statutes of limitations, in the event of felony theft a complaint must be filed no later than five years after the offense is committed (two years for misdemeanor theft). Seeing as it has been over 300 years, I think that ship has sailed.

8/17/2005 10:25:19 AM

sarijoul:

Quote :

"... one must also not forget that Palestinians too are entitled to restitution and compensation."

One must also not forget that when Israel was becoming a nation many of the Palistinians left voluntarily - in fact the Palistinian leadership encouraged it. The Muslim leadership told everyone to leave in anticipation of the war. They thought it would be over soon, and then everyone could move back. So, in fact, it wasn't the Jews who forced people out, it was the Muslim leadership who encouraged them to leave.

8/17/2005 11:03:39 AM

Not to mention, the statute of limitations has also become applied to the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Of course, I wonder if there have already been complaints filed against the Israeli state...

8/17/2005 11:34:11 AM

Quote :

" Palestinians in Gaza, many of whom were already forcibly displaced in the period leading up to 1948, when Zionist militias sought to create a Jewish majority in Israel, have experienced additional displacement during Israel's occupation of Gaza."

israel started its occupation of gaza after it won the 6-day war started by the arabs, spoils of war

8/17/2005 12:28:13 PM

spoils of war doesn't make right.

8/17/2005 12:42:20 PM

Pulling out is for fags.

8/17/2005 12:46:27 PM

And avoiding pregnancy.

8/17/2005 1:47:10 PM

I wonder if emotions would run so high in the United States over land squabblings if this didn't involve the "Holy Land". Say, for example, if this was in Africa and not Israel. My gut, and past experience, tells me it wouldn't.

8/17/2005 3:20:41 PM

^ I know. Its almost like there's some kind of crazy pre-existing animosity there.

8/17/2005 3:23:34 PM

^ Why would Americans have animosity towards Palestinians? And why would they care who gets what strip of land thousands of miles away? They don't seem to care in any other part of the world.

8/17/2005 3:32:04 PM

well, there was this little thing Hitler did in the 30s and 40s...

8/17/2005 3:32:53 PM

^ Yah, and America cared so much about the problem that we refused to accept Jews trying to emigrate from Germany. This has as much to with the Holocaust as it does with the Easter Bunny. I'm certain the goal of guilt ridden politicans back in the late '40's was to create a Jewish state to ammend for their previous fuck up, but today people are pissed because they don't want the "Holy Land" falling into dirty muslim hands.

[Edited on August 17, 2005 at 3:40 PM. Reason : ``]

8/17/2005 3:37:26 PM

21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.

21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, [even] with Isaac.

21:11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.

21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8/17/2005 4:03:26 PM

Quote :

"pulling out ... 99% effective"

8/17/2005 5:02:14 PM

Quote :

"This has as much to with the Holocaust as it does with the Easter Bunny. I'm certain the goal of guilt ridden politicans back in the late '40's was to create a Jewish state to ammend for their previous fuck up, but today people are pissed because they don't want the "Holy Land" falling into dirty muslim hands. "

But that feeling of guilt was a big part of what got that ball rolling in the first place. Then we poured money and image into Israel, and started to become indentified with them.

And the ball keeps on rolling...

...though hating Muslims might be part of it too...

8/17/2005 10:01:36 PM

Quote :

"Watch those dirty muslims attack them for giving them back prime real estate "

you are so fucking biased and blind, that that was the second post in the thread, and it was posted by you, smath.

of course you conveniently choose to overlook JEWISH TERRORISM, don't you?

- settler guns down 4 palestinian labourers

- settlers throw acid on israeli police

- settlers throw nail-studded planks under MOVING buses to prevent other settlers from leaving (WTF????)

all of this has happened in the past few days, but obviously americans don't really care about that, do they? i mean, americans are paying each settler family hundreds of thousands of dollars through their tax money. but as soon as a muslim kills...

a lot of these settlers, the ultra-orthodox hardcore ones (as bad as hamas), the JEWISH TERRORISTS, they have been terrorising palestinian civilians for decades, by shooting at them and beating them, killing their sheep, uprooting their trees, and diverting water resources.

and what do the soldiers of the "most moral military in the world" do when such things happen? they just stand and watch. not a single jewish soldier or settler has ever been indicted for their blatant crimes against palestinian civilians, including murder. but thousands of palestinians languish in israeli jails for the slightest crime or even suspicion.

WHAT DOES AMERICA DO? IT SUPPORTS THE CRIMINAL, RACIST, and TERRORIST state of israel.

one day it will crumble to the ground... one day.

[Edited on August 19, 2005 at 8:44 PM. Reason : zionazis]

8/19/2005 8:40:49 PM

well obviously we can't support sheep-killers.

[Edited on August 19, 2005 at 9:03 PM. Reason : ebbeh]

8/19/2005 9:03:42 PM

The more i read the more I think some people dont deserve opinions. Thank you 0EPII1 for showing there are always two sides to the story. Ehsteve do you have any idea what happened in the six days war. Isrealis went house to house shooting up whole families. And you wonder why palestinians are cloaked in camo and boldly holding A.K.s. I'm american that believes hate begets hate, and the only way peace can happen there is if unlearned american idiots stay out of foriegn affairs.

8/19/2005 9:14:37 PM

The place we should have been focusing on the whole time is def africa. Its a shame we aren't helping what little humanity is left there.

8/19/2005 9:17:27 PM

Quote :

"WHAT DOES AMERICA DO? IT SUPPORTS THE CRIMINAL, RACIST, and TERRORIST state of israel."

I'm sure a Palestinian state will be no less criminal, racist, or terrorist.

:chuckle:

Because--as we've ALL seen--the Middle East, collectively, is FULL of peace-loving, democratic states that do not force their ideals on their citizens or other sovereign nations using violence, terrorism, or ideological propaganda.

So--when Israel, as you say, crumbles to the ground, it will be replaced by another fine Islamic
"republic" that stones its own people to death and pays off groups of people to attack us.

Yes, Israel's shit stinks, too. But at least they treat their own people halfway decently, and they don't try to blow up our buildings. That's a notch above every other cesspool in the region; it's a notch above every little half-baked junta there that calls itself a sovereign state.

8/19/2005 10:44:41 PM

0EPII1:

Quote :

"settler guns down 4 palestinian labourers ... [etc.] ..."

The difference is when settlers do that horrible stuff it is condemed, not celebrated ...

8/19/2005 10:57:07 PM

i wish we could say no to the $2B they want

8/19/2005 11:09:30 PM

$2B or not $2B? THAT IS THE QUESTIONROOFLES.

8/19/2005 11:34:56 PM

Quote :

"I'm sure a Palestinian state will be no less criminal, racist, or terrorist. :chuckle: Because--as we've ALL seen--the Middle East, collectively, is FULL of peace-loving, democratic states that do not force their ideals on their citizens or other sovereign nations using violence, terrorism, or ideological propaganda. So--when Israel, as you say, crumbles to the ground, it will be replaced by another fine Islamic "republic" that stones its own people to death and pays off groups of people to attack us. Yes, Israel's shit stinks, too. But at least they treat their own people halfway decently, and they don't try to blow up our buildings. That's a notch above every other cesspool in the region; it's a notch above every little half-baked junta there that calls itself a sovereign state."

Jesus, smoker4, you are following me again!!!

And you have spoken against Israel and in favour of a Palestinian state on here several times before, so make up your mind.

This is not a case of who is worse or who is more decent, it is a case of principles.

Most of you people just don't get it.

Yes, nearly all Muslim countries are horribly administered, and treat their own very badly.

But, the difference is, that not a second goes by when Islamic extermism and terror is not condemned from some corner of the world.

But, how often do you hear condemnation of Jewish terror and racism? Definitely not in the mainstream media. And whenever activists do condemn it and bring up the issuse (like I did), all you hear is:

Quote :

"I'm sure a Palestinian state will be no less criminal, racist, or terrorist. :chuckle: Because--as we've ALL seen--the Middle East, collectively, is FULL of peace-loving, democratic states that do not force their ideals on their citizens or other sovereign nations using violence, terrorism, or ideological propaganda. So--when Israel, as you say, crumbles to the ground, it will be replaced by another fine Islamic "republic" that stones its own people to death and pays off groups of people to attack us. Yes, Israel's shit stinks, too. But at least they treat their own people halfway decently, and they don't try to blow up our buildings. That's a notch above every other cesspool in the region; it's a notch above every little half-baked junta there that calls itself a sovereign state."

And furthermore, the mainstream media and politicians label you as an ANTI-SEMITE, and if you are of any public stature, your political/public life and carreer are basically destroyed by that one label.

[Edited on August 20, 2005 at 4:58 PM. Reason : ]

8/20/2005 4:53:14 PM

Too bad we didn't pour 200-300 billion dollars and 4 year so research to find an alternative fuel source.

We could tell the Middle East to go fuck themselves and let China deal with it.

BTW, the Israeli pullout from Gaza also makes it easier for Israel to exact punishment on the Palestinians without fear of killing their own in the process.

8/20/2005 7:17:22 PM