http://www.geotimes.org/june03/NN_gulf.html

Quote :

"Raining hydrocarbons in the Gulf Below the Gulf of Mexico, hydrocarbons flow upward through an intricate network of conduits and reservoirs. They start in thin layers of source rock and, from there, buoyantly rise to the surface. On their way up, the hydrocarbons collect in little rivulets, and create temporary pockets like rain filling a pond. Eventually most escape to the ocean. And, this is all happening now, not millions and millions of years ago, says Larry Cathles, a chemical geologist at Cornell University. "We're dealing with this giant flow-through system where the hydrocarbons are generating now, moving through the overlying strata now, building the reservoirs now and spilling out into the ocean now," Cathles says. He's bringing this new view of an active hydrocarbon cycle to industry, hoping it will lead to larger oil and gas discoveries. By matching the chemical signatures of the oil and gas with geologic models for the structures below the seafloor, petroleum geologists could tap into reserves larger than the North Sea, says Cathles, who presented his findings at the meeting of the American Chemical Society in New Orleans on March 27. ... Cathles and his team estimate that in a study area of about 9,600 square miles off the coast of Louisiana, source rocks a dozen kilometers down have generated as much as 184 billion tons of oil and gas — about 1,000 billion barrels of oil and gas equivalent. "That's 30 percent more than we humans have consumed over the entire petroleum era," Cathles says. "And that's just this one little postage stamp area; if this is going on worldwide, then there's a lot of hydrocarbons venting out.""

Note: hydrocarbons are generating NOW. They are a renewable resource. "Peak oil" is bogus. Also note that there are ENORMOUS amounts of oil all over the globe that is not being extracted or used.


http://www.rense.com/general67/PRICE.HTM

Quote :

"The Lies To Hike The Price Of Oil ...The first thing that I'd like to expose is the fact that nearly all of the new wells in the gulf are immediately capped off and forgotten about. I saw well after well brought in only to see them capped off and left. Oil or natural gas it didn't matter. I asked a couple of petroleum engineers what exactly was going on and I was told by both (they worked for different companies) that there was no intention of bringing that oil to market until the "price was right"."

[Edited on September 3, 2005 at 11:08 AM. Reason : 4]

9/3/2005 10:58:54 AM

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=6§ion=0&article=44011&d=29&m=4&y=2004

Quote :

"Saudi Oil Is Secure and Plentiful, Say Officials Tim Kennedy, Arab News WASHINGTON, 29 April 2004 — Officials from Saudi Arabia’s oil industry and the international petroleum organizations shocked a gathering of foreign policy experts in Washington yesterday with an announcement that the Kingdom’s previous estimate of 261 billion barrels of recoverable petroleum has now more than tripled, to 1.2 trillion barrels. Additionally, Saudi Arabia’s key oil and finance ministers assured the audience — which included US Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan — that the Kingdom has the capability to quickly double its oil output and sustain such a production surge for as long as 50 years."

Commentary...

http://www.the7thfire.com/peak_oil/peak_oil_is_a_scam_to_promote_world_depopulation.htm

Quote :

"Peak Oil Is a Scam to Promote World Depopulation ... Note that the oil reserves claimed by Saudi Arabia alone (1.2 trillion barrels) exceed what the Peakers claim are the total recoverable oil reserves for the entire planet. Let's pause here for a minute and think about the significance of that: one tiny patch of land, accounting for less than than 1/2 of 1% of the earth's total surface area, potentially contains more oil that the 'Peak' pitchmen claim the entire planet has to offer! Is there not something clearly wrong with this picture? Needless to say, that sort of candor by the Saudis could put a serious crimp in Washington's plans to sell the 'Peak Oil' scam. Perhaps that is why, just three days after that announcement, the Saudi oil industry was attacked by some of those terr'ists. Not to be deterred, however, Saudi officials announced three weeks later, on May 21, that the Kingdom still intended to dramatically increase its petroleum output. And a week after that, on May 29, those crafty terr'ists launched yet another brazen attack on the Saudi oil industry. Shit happens, I guess."

[Edited on September 3, 2005 at 11:16 AM. Reason : 1]

9/3/2005 11:13:06 AM

salisburyboy and lonesnark - separated at birth?

9/3/2005 12:25:58 PM

I doubt it. Lonesnark isn't a raving, paranoid, "the sky is falling" conspiracy theorist.

9/3/2005 12:29:12 PM

i support oil price hikes

it will encourage research and development of cleaner sources of energy

9/3/2005 12:35:52 PM

so a cornell scientist, and saudi oil industry officials are "the sky is falling" conspiracy theorists?

forget salisbury. he didn't write that stuff.

look at what those people are saying. open the links and analyze them.

definitely some interesting things going on there.

i swear, most of you are so blinded by hatred of salisburyboy that if he told you the sky is blue, your knee-jerk reaction would be to negate and malign him.

analyze an argument on its merit, not on who made it, and ESPECIALLY not on who the messenger is.

9/3/2005 5:47:59 PM

^nobody hates salsbury. we pity him.

people usualy respond to the substance of his claims.

9/3/2005 5:53:05 PM

When people point out the holes in the substance of his claims he usually ignores them.

9/3/2005 7:23:54 PM

http://www.aberdeennews.com/mld/aberdeennews/news/12589681.htm

Quote :

"Senator says oil firms hiking prices, taking record profits By Scott Waltman American News Writer While an increased demand for oil has something to do with higher gasoline prices, Sen. Tim Johnson, D-S.D., said large petroleum companies are earning record profits by gouging consumers. Johnson called for a federal investigation into high gasoline prices during a Wednesday conference call covering a number of topics. In the first quarter of 2005, profits for the largest oil companies were up 25 percent compared to the same time last year, Johnson said. He said Exxon Mobile profits are up 44 percent over a year ago. "Frankly, that strikes me as price-gouging," Johnson said. "This is a matter of profiteering on the part of big oil." The Senate Energy Committee held a hearing this week to examine factors that contribute to the high price of gas. Johnson said that in the past year, South Dakota gas prices have increased $1.26 per gallon from an average of $1.83 to $3.09. One of Johnson's gripes is that oil companies have not invested their profits in infrastructure that would allow them to increase production, thereby lowering prices."

[Edited on September 8, 2005 at 1:22 PM. Reason : 1]

9/8/2005 1:22:03 PM

It is their money, they can do with it as they see fit.

9/8/2005 1:29:03 PM

Quote :

"Officials from Saudi Arabia say"

[/thread]

9/8/2005 1:38:09 PM

The oil companies will only raise the prices as high as the market will allow, or people will eventually (not overnight or this year) turn to alternative technolgies, that is just good business. They are obligated to make as much money as they can for their stock holders.

That being said, it is unethical to price gouge during a natural disaster and government should step in. However, I hope what happens is that they get too greedy and this speeds the demand for higher CAFE standards, alternative fuels and more public transportation.

9/8/2005 2:42:08 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/21/news/economy/rita_threat/index.htm

Quote :

"Rita could equal $5 gas NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Remember when gas spiked to $3-plus a gallon after Hurricane Katrina? By this time next week, that could seem like the good old days. Weather and energy experts say that as bad as Hurricane Katrina hit the nation's supply of gasoline, Hurricane Rita could be worse. Katrina damage was focused on offshore oil platforms and ports. Now the greater risk is to oil-refinery capacity, especially if Rita slams into Houston, Galveston and Port Arthur, Texas. "We could be looking at gasoline lines and $4 gas, maybe even $5 gas, if this thing does the worst it could do," said energy analyst Peter Beutel of Cameron Hanover. "This storm is in the wrong place. And it's absolutely at the wrong time," said Beutel."

How convenient for the oil companies. Another excuse to skyrocket gas prices. I bet there are no shortages either. There will be more than enough gas to go around, which should tell you if there really is a shortage. And don't bet on prices returning to something close to what they were before Katrina and Rita when things get back to normal and the refineries and platforms are back to normal production. They have the pretext to raise prices, and they're not going to give back anything. This is conditioning the public to accept paying more for gas.


[Edited on September 22, 2005 at 10:03 AM. Reason : 1]

9/22/2005 9:56:28 AM

Wow. All this time I though salisburyboy would be the one to spout - "peak oil, the end cometh". Now that I see salisburyboy is behind a "peak oil is a scam" banner I'm starting to believe that the peak oil guys were right.

[Edited on September 22, 2005 at 10:36 AM. Reason : clarity]

9/22/2005 10:33:43 AM

Hubbert's peak somewhat accuratly predicted US peak oil production, for what that's worth. Also, peak oil doesn't have to do with how much oil we have left or whether or not it replenishes, it has to do with the rate that we can get it out of the ground. We could have plenty of oil left out there, and it could even be replenishing, but the rate that we can get it out of the ground could still peak and then start declining.

9/22/2005 11:14:38 AM

Quote :

"How convenient for the oil companies. Another excuse to skyrocket gas prices. I bet there are no shortages either. There will be more than enough gas to go around, which should tell you if there really is a shortage. And don't bet on prices returning to something close to what they were before Katrina and Rita when things get back to normal and the refineries and platforms are back to normal production. They have the pretext to raise prices, and they're not going to give back anything. This is conditioning the public to accept paying more for gas."

I actually totally agree. I was just saying this to a coworker today. Even the senate had the FTC investigate OPEC and found evidence of price fixing through all this. We will not see gas go back below $2.50 / gallon. I mean gas spiked what, 3 weeks ago, and now when people see it near $2.75 they are happy.

http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/050921/15/3v4ji.html

9/22/2005 11:41:09 AM

^^ You might be upset to learn that the United States is predicted to produce more crude oil this year than we did last year.

I searched but didn't find the original article, but here is one from Kansas:
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/business/12555239.htm

Quote :

"But with prices making a recovery, production has climbed, too. This year, production is expected to increase over last year."

[Edited on September 22, 2005 at 12:08 PM. Reason : link]

9/22/2005 12:04:28 PM

^I think his point was that even if oil production is up that oil consumption is also up - and at a higher rate at that.

9/22/2005 12:16:17 PM

^^ In that same article it says "Kansas production peaked in 1956. Until recently, it had declined every year."

Just because it's oild production rate is increasing doesn't mean that it will ever pass the peak in 1956. The same goes for US oil production.


and from the same article.

"When the current price boom began, Kansas had fewer than 50 operating drilling rigs, down from a peak of more than 250 before the price slump of the 1990s. Today, it has 78. All are busy. All the time.

"I think we're probably at a peak," McClain said. "We've got all the rigs that are salvageable in the field. Anything that gets added from now on will have to be built from scratch."


Also, like the above post says, you have to look at production rate and compare that with the demand. The reason peak oil is a problem is because if production rates don't continue to increase or they begin to decline supply won't be able to meet demand. For instance, production rates in Kansas peaked in 1956, but demand is much higher now than it was in 1956, so the slight increase in production they're talking about doesn't really do shit. Even if they surpassed the 1956 peak, they still wouldn't have the same supply/demand ratio that they had in 1956.

And that's basically what peak oil theorists are saying will happen globally, that production rates will eventually level off and decline while demand continues to rise. That's not to say that the production amounts will always be declining, just that they will never surpass the peak level.

9/22/2005 1:43:54 PM

Bill O' Reilly said some insightful stuff about this topic last night

9/22/2005 1:55:51 PM

do tell

9/22/2005 1:57:05 PM

he talked of some report that some public officials are working on, that studied the supply chain of oil. on a model using historical margins, gas should cost roughly half as much as it does now. however, the market doesn't work that way. they'll charge what the market will pay. Bill said, it is the government's role however, to provide oversight on whether this is "price gouging".

9/22/2005 2:18:17 PM

^^^^ Alright, my mistake. I thought you were saying Peak Oil was a problem because production always falls after the peak, which is obviously does not.

Not to mention, oil consumption peaked sometime in the 1970s, and didn't surpass it until 1998.

The market will work as expected, oil production will increase, oil consumption will flatten, even if it has to do so at $2.79 a gallon.

9/22/2005 3:47:12 PM

Quote :

" "The market doesn't need more sour crude now, it needs more oil products," said Calyon's Wittner. "For anyone who has been paying close attention to oil markets in recent months, the whole thing is a big shrug of the shoulders." The cartel's agreement permitted individual member countries to pump at will to meet consumer demand, said Saudi Arabia Oil Minister Ali al-Naimi. Saudi Foreign Minister Saud Al-Faisal said the world's largest oil exporter would be happy to see oil prices drop to $35 to $40 a barrel. "

http://today.reuters.com/business/newsarticle.aspx?type=tnBusinessNews&storyID=nNSP41509&imageid=&cap=

9/22/2005 6:14:32 PM

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/pdf/pages/sec5_3.pdf

here's a neat flow chart for 2004. What lonesnark is saying is that we're bottle necking at refinery output and not at crude oil production/import. Which makes sense, given that the recent hurricane mostly affected refining and distribution. But that doesn't necessarily discredit peak oil theory, it just means that the current high prices aren't directly caused by a decline from or plateau at the peak of crude oil production.

One point that I think might be relevant though is that if we have a lot of spare production capability then the price spike because of the hurricane wouldn't be as steep. If our current crude oil production rates were determined by demand and they could increase if demand increased, then the prospect of increased oil production later on would soften the bump up in price from the temporary decrease in refining capability. Meaning that the sharp price spike after Katrina means that the market doesn't think production can increase much more from its current level.

[Edited on September 23, 2005 at 11:08 AM. Reason : ...]

9/23/2005 11:07:47 AM

You are aware crude oil prices right now are about the same as they were before Katrina, right?
Lots of crude production was cut off, not just refining. Yet, thanks to the SPR filling the void between the present shortage and the perceived future surplus the prices have moderated heavily.

The price down the street is only 20 cents above what it was before Katrina was a hurricane.

9/23/2005 1:10:59 PM

yea, that's what I meant by spike. That the price sharply rose and then fell again.

9/23/2005 1:33:03 PM

just checking

9/23/2005 2:02:37 PM

2 articles...one from a "left-wing" website and the other a "right-wing" website:

Oil Reserves Are Increasing
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/crispin8.html

Oil Is NOT A Fossil Fuel - It Is Abiotic
http://onlinejournal.com/Commentary/091705Mazza/091705mazza.html

Quote :

"To begin with, oil is not a fossil fuel. This is a theory put forth by 18th century scientists. Within 50 years, Germany and France's scientists had attacked the theory of petroleum's biological roots. In fact, oil is abiotic, not the product of long decayed biological matter. And oil, for better or for worse, is not a non-renewable resource. It, like coal, and natural gas, replenishes from sources within the mantle of earth. [...] The real reason a company like Shell Oil would close a facility like Bakersfield-to bulldoze it, stop it-is to halt the production, refining, and supply to drive up the price of oil. It's that goddamn simple and ugly. And we're doing the same thing today in Iraq, bulldozing a country, to control and reduce its oil supply."

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 8:30 AM. Reason : 1]

9/29/2005 8:26:21 AM

http://prisonplanet.com/Pages/Oct05/041005oil.htm

Quote :

"Peak Oil is a Corrupt Globalist Scam Steve Watson, Alex Jones & Paul Watson | October 04 2005 They make the profits on creating artificial scarcity. "Peak oil" is pure military-industrial-complex propaganda. Publicly available CFR and Club of Rome strategy manuals from 30 years ago say that a global government needs to control the world population through neo-feudalism by creating artificial scarcity. Now that the social architects have de-industrialized the United States, they are going to blame our economic disentigration on lack of energy supplies. Globalization is all about consolidation. Now that the world economy has become so centralized through the Globalists operations, they are going to continue to consolidate and blame it on the West's "evil" overconsumption of fossil fuels, while at the same time blocking the development and integration of renewable clean technologies. In other words, Peak oil is a scam to create artificial scarcity and drive prices up. Meanwhile, alternative fuel technologies which have been around for decades are intentionally suppressed. [...] Flying in the face of the so called peak oil crisis are the facts. If we are running out of oil so quickly then why are resverves being continually increased and production skyrocketing? in the 1980s OPEC decided to switch to a quota production system based on the size of reserves. The larger the reserves a country said it had the more it could pump. Earlier this year Saudi Arabia reportedly increased its crude reserves by around 200 billion barrels. Saudi Oil Is Secure and Plentiful, Say Officials. “These huge reserves enable the Kingdom to remain a major oil producer for between 70 and 100 years, even if it raises its production capacity to 15 million barrels per day, which may well happen during the next 15 years,” Is this the normal course of behaviour if we are currently at the peak for oil production? The answer is no, it's the normal course of action for increasing production. There have also been reports that Russia has vastly increased its reserves even beyond those of Saudi Arabia. Why would they do this if they believed there would be no more oil to get hold of? It seems clear that Russia is ready for unlimited future production of oil. There is a clear contradiction between the peak oil theory and the continual increase in oil reserves and production. New untapped oil sources are being discovered everywhere on earth. The notion that there is somehow only a few sources that the West is trying to monopolize is a complete myth, promulgated by those raking in the massive profits. Afterall how do you make huge profits from something available in abundance? [...] Peak oil is just another weapon the globalists have in their arsenal to move towards a new world order where the elite get richer and everyone else falls into line."

Many imbedded links to "mainstream" articles included.

[Edited on October 4, 2005 at 10:55 AM. Reason : 1]

10/4/2005 10:54:40 AM

For once, God forbid, I actually do agree somewhat with salisburyboy.

Refining companies have been reducing capacity for the last several years despite the increasing demand for fuel globally. My guess is that they feel that the market can bear a higher price before people begin turning to fuel-efficiency technologies.

10/4/2005 5:19:22 PM

10/5/2005 1:51:56 AM

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2005/121005oil_companies.htm

Quote :

"Group Internal memos show oil companies limited refineries to drive up prices RAW STORY| 12 Oct 2005 The Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights (FTCR) today exposed internal oil company memos that show how the industry intentionally reduced domestic refining capacity to drive up profits, RAW STORY has learned. The three internal memos from Mobil, Chevron and Texaco illustrate how the oil juggernauts reduced refining capacity and drove independent refiners out of business in an effort to increase prices. The highly confidential memos reveal a nationwide effort by American Petroleum Institute, the lobbying and research arm of the oil industry, to encourage major refiners to close their refineries in the mid-1990s. "Large oil companies have for a decade artificially shorted the gasoline market to drive up prices," said FTCR president Jamie Court, who successfully fought to keep Shell Oil from needlessly closing its Bakersfield, California refinery this year. "Oil companies know they can make more money by making less gasoline. Katrina should be a wakeup call to America that the refiners profit widely when they keep the system running on empty." "

[Edited on October 12, 2005 at 10:44 AM. Reason : 1]

10/12/2005 10:43:19 AM

like it or not, its capitalism.

10/12/2005 10:50:08 AM

I'm so very glad to see lonesnark and salisburyboy finally together. Really. It's the cutest thing.

[Edited on October 12, 2005 at 12:15 PM. Reason : .]

10/12/2005 12:15:25 PM

you know for the first time, when gas was at $3.50, i was debating buying a fucking diesel and doing the biodiesel thing

10/12/2005 12:17:57 PM

Isn't the average price for diesel now almost $1 over the price of gasoline?

10/12/2005 12:49:11 PM

http://www.infowars.com/articles/economy/peak_oil_index.htm

Quote :

"The Myth Of Peak Oil Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones | October 12 2005 Peak oil is a scam designed to create artificial scarcity and jack up prices while giving the state an excuse to invade our lives and order us to sacrifice our hard-earned living standards. Publicly available CFR and Club of Rome strategy manuals from 30 years ago say that a global government needs to control the world population through neo-feudalism by creating artificial scarcity. Now that the social architects have de-industrialized the United States, they are going to blame our economic disintegration on lack of energy supplies. Globalization is all about consolidation. Now that the world economy has become so centralized through the Globalists operations, they are going to continue to consolidate and blame it on the West's "evil" overconsumption of fossil fuels, while at the same time blocking the development and integration of renewable clean technologies. In other words, Peak oil is a scam to create artificial scarcity and drive prices up. Meanwhile, alternative fuel technologies which have been around for decades are intentionally suppressed. Peak oil is a theory advanced by the elite, by the oil industry, by the very people that you would think peak oil would harm, unless it was a cover for another agenda. Which from the evidence of artificial scarcity being deliberately created, the reasons for doing so and who benefits, it’s clear that peak oil is a myth and it should be exposed for what it is. Another excuse for the Globalists to seize more control over our lives and sacrifice more American sovereignty in the meantime."

10/13/2005 12:28:34 PM

Quote :

"Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones"

It doesn't bother you that these two claim to be experts on every subject? Have you ever bothered to look at their credentials?

10/13/2005 1:33:50 PM

this is the biggest leaching of the worlds wealth to possibly ever occur

10/13/2005 2:49:56 PM

Quote :

"Isn't the average price for diesel now almost $1 over the price of gasoline?"

Quote :

"you know for the first time, when gas was at $3.50, i was debating buying a fucking diesel and doing the biodiesel thing"

HELLO? MCFLY?

10/13/2005 3:05:24 PM

Ha ha, very funny. You are actually pretending that although biodiesel and diesel are substitutes for each other their prices won't be comparable in the marketplace. Classic

Seriously though, how much do you expect to pay for biodiesel? $2? Why on earth, when the owner of it could take his 100 barrels of it down to a refinery and dilute it in regular diesel and sell it as such. His $2 biodiesel becomes $3.39 diesel! Profit!

10/13/2005 4:17:53 PM

i was debating MAKING biodiesel.

10/13/2005 4:19:37 PM

^ Great! How?

10/13/2005 4:23:25 PM

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

roughly comes to $0.60 a gallon.

10/13/2005 4:26:02 PM

GREAT! Can I sign you to a contract for 100,000 gallons a day at 75 cents a gallon? The 15 cents should cover overruns and profit taking on your part. My uncle in South Carolina owns a distributor and would kill for someone willing to supply diesel for less than $2 a gallon.

If I give you the name of his company lawyer, will you be willing to sign on the above terms? That is $75,000 a day or about $27 million a year for your fee, he has trucks so we can pick it up wherever you are making it. Your profit on the deal should be about $5.4 million a year or 20% markup, you're not going to find a better offer.

How soon can you begin production? We are kinda in a crunch right now.

[Edited on October 13, 2005 at 5:24 PM. Reason : .]

10/13/2005 5:21:56 PM

10/13/2005 5:49:06 PM

http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/030573.html

Quote :

"Rocks into Gas Geologists have long believed that the world's supply of oil and natural gas came from the decay of primordial plant and animal matter, which, over the course of millions of years, turned into petroleum. But new research coauthored by Dudley Herschbach, Baird research professor of science and recipient of the 1986 Nobel Prize in chemistry, questions that thinking. Published last fall in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the study describes how investigators combined three abiotic (non-living) materials -- water (H2O), limestone (CaCO3), and iron oxide (FeO) -- and crushed the mixture together with the same intense pressure found deep below the earth's surface. This process created methane (CH4), the major component of natural gas. Herschbach says this offers evidence, although as yet far from proof, for a maverick theory that much of the world's supply of so-called fossil fuels may not derive from the decay of dinosaur-era organisms after all. [...] "The experiment showed it's easy to make methane," Herschbach says. The new findings may serve to corroborate other evidence, cited by Gold, that some of the earth's reservoirs of oil appear to refill as they're pumped out, suggesting that petroleum may be continually generated. This could have broad implications for petroleum production and consumption, and for our planet's ecology and economy."

10/18/2005 8:36:40 AM

Isn't Methane found on other planets?

All this said, I don't see how it matters where oil comes from, dead dinos or dead limestone. We don't have to be "out" of oil to charge high prices for the stuff.

10/18/2005 9:10:39 AM

of course doesnt this entire discussion ignore the implications of using "fossil fuels" forget whether we will run out or not, you cant deny that using the stuff, whether or not global warming is real, does harm the environment. even if we had an unlimited supply the people not wanting to live in a dump of a planet would start incorporating a environmental "tax" or add on price eventually. or so i believe. and this would raise the price anyway. maybe not so much but we might just be better off being forced into alternatives now, rather than later, especially assuming, as greenspan said today, that our economy could take it to some extent.

10/18/2005 9:24:52 AM