Quote :

"The trouble with vision is that it takes 30 yrs to find out who has it. "

Imagine, tax breaks to drive a SUV mentality, while hybrids go for full price. Meanwhile, Republicans want to drill "where ever it takes to meet increasing demand" - demand created via decreasing average fuel economy (of course, when has the US auto industry ever shown any vision). Any thoughts at all about incentives to reduce demand? Not until a crisis comes, then they say, "see we need more oil".

Does anyone see Bush's vision? With an 85% approval rating among Republicans there must be something they are happy with, but I can't see a damn thing that he's done for this country.

9/3/2005 11:39:00 AM

"Fuck dem fahggits" works really nice with trash Republicans, which are their majority.

9/3/2005 11:41:57 AM

^ says the non-American

9/3/2005 11:46:34 AM

All the better to see you with

9/3/2005 11:48:36 AM

You get a huge tax credit for purchasing a hybrid vehicle.

9/3/2005 12:01:38 PM

You can write off $1500 or $3500, I can't remember which, if you buy a hybrid.

You can write off the entire value of the vehicle, over $50,000, if you buy an H2.

9/3/2005 3:09:22 PM

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU MOTHER FUCKING FREEDOM HATING HIPPIE COMMIE MOTHER, MOTHER FUCKER

SUPPLY SIDE IS THE ONLY ANSWER

9/3/2005 3:16:16 PM

We should have been doing both the whole time. Work on getting hybrids developed, improved, and distributed for benefits in the future, drill the fuck out of anything that isn't going to cause an ecological collapse for the present. Vision would have been doing both.

9/3/2005 4:26:53 PM

Quote :

"You can write off the entire value of the vehicle, over $50,000, if you buy an H2."

Though I am not 100% sure about this, I recall hearing rhetoric that this loophole was closed. Of course, I haven't bothered to look it up either as it doesn't pertain to my situation.

9/3/2005 5:49:21 PM

you can only write it off if you use it strictly for business related purposes - and the business has to have paperwork, etc. filed - it can't be something that you just make up.

other than that - yea anyone can engage in tax fraud... are you saying that H2s are tax-free because it is possible for someone to defraud the government?

wow you're stupider than the average liberal

[Edited on September 3, 2005 at 6:11 PM. Reason : s]

9/3/2005 6:08:40 PM

No, you can write off the entire value of the vehicle weighing 6000 pounds or over, up to $100000, if you use it 50% or more for business. This deduction makes it possible, through the loophole, to get the biggest of the big SUVs at a hugely discounted price. There are H2 dealers that advertise this fact, selling it to doctors and lawyers who can write it off if they drive it to work.

If there's anything factually wrong with this, please let me know. I know there were recent changes to the law, so feel free to correct me.

Quote :

"Among the provisions of the tax package just approved by Congress is an increase in the deduction allowed for small-business equipment purchases, which rises from $25,000 to $100,000. That means real estate agents, lawyers, doctors -- anybody who files a Schedule C or corporate tax return -- can write off the entire cost of virtually any big sport-utility vehicle. The potential tax savings in the top bracket is $35,000. The dramatically higher limit greatly simplifies the math. The deduction for SUV purchases was already pretty hefty, but it came in three parts: A $25,000 equipment deduction, plus 30% of the remaining price (courtesy of the 2002 economic stimulus bill), plus the standard five-year depreciation schedule on the remainder. On a $72,000 Range Rover, the deduction came to about $45,000 the first year, for a tax savings of more than $16,000. It's so much easier -- and cheaper -- to write the whole thing off. Simply multiply the purchase price by your tax rate. The tax savings on that same Range Rover? More than $25,000 in the top brackets. In contrast, those who buy ultra-efficient gas-electric hybrids for personal use get a tax deduction of $2,000, worth at most $700. The business deduction is proportional; that is, the write-off must reflect the percentage of the vehicle's use that is devoted to business. The minimum is 50%. And the deduction applies only to vehicles designated as light trucks. Far less generous rules apply to business use of cars and smaller trucks."

From http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P48468.asp

Basically, for people who own their own business or have a home office, it's pretty easy to write off the entire value of the truck. This law is supposed to let farmers and contractors buy the vehicles they need, not let some douchebag lawyer get a fucking Hummer or Escalade.

9/3/2005 6:30:58 PM

pyrowebmastr:

Quote :

"You get a huge tax credit for purchasing a hybrid vehicle."

I'd like to see something more than anecdotal evidence for this.

ssjamind:

Quote :

"SUPPLY SIDE IS THE ONLY ANSWER"

Response to demand, by definition, is reactionary. It supplies no vision of where you want to be in the future - only responds until you run out of resources, and then you look for another plan. That is the reason we are in the mess today.

Supply side economics has very little to do with this discussion. In fact, I can't help but think you are parroting words you know very little about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_side_economics

Edward Deming:

Quote :

"You don't get vision by asking people what they want."

[Edited on September 3, 2005 at 7:13 PM. Reason : *~<]BO]

9/3/2005 7:10:48 PM

It's easy to see that no one is waiting in line to describe what they see as Bush's grand vision for the future. What, indeed, is leadership without vision? ...

9/4/2005 1:57:53 PM

p.s. I heard Excoriator had sex with a monkey once.

9/4/2005 2:00:31 PM

bttt

9/8/2005 1:40:11 PM

Only a business owner can write off an H2, right?
Just as my friend can write off his new Saturn because ne needs it for his "business."
Meanwhile, the rest of us that have jobs and don't own our own businesses, we can't write off anything EXCEPT a hybrid or other low emission vehicle, and then only the first 3500 of the purchase.

[Edited on September 8, 2005 at 2:34 PM. Reason : ..]

9/8/2005 2:34:19 PM

Quote :

"I can't help but think you are parroting words you know very little about."

i know all about things ok

somtimes i say stuff in all caps that lacks coherence

9/8/2005 2:54:10 PM

Quote :

"Now the rule is more liberal, but also more complicated. Automobiles purchased in 2003 or 2004 qualify for a special "bonus depreciation" of $7,650, on top of the $3,060 limit, for a total first-year depreciation deduction of up to $10,710."

Basically, your friend's Saturn qualifies for a partial write-off for up to $10,710 if he calls it a business vehicle. If he bought an H2, a Navigator, or something like that, he could write off the entire value of the vehicle.

You are correct, though, that this loophole only applies to business owners.

9/8/2005 2:57:18 PM

Could you explain that more? Why is an H2 treated any differently from any other company vehicle?

And am I right that only business owners can write off their vehicle purchases?

9/8/2005 3:09:46 PM

The H2, along with a few other SUVs, weighs over 6000 pounds. There is a federal exemption for vehicles over 6000 pounds. At the time the law was written, it was absolutely inconceivable that any consumer passenger vehicle would weigh that much. This is a deduction for trucks for people like farmers and contracters who need a heavy duty vehicle to get their job done. These vehicles are fully deductible because, as was the thinking at the time the law was written, if you get something that huge, it is necessary equipment for your line of work.

The problem is, of course, that no white collar business owner (think realtors, lawyers, doctors) NEEDS an H2. They WANT them. So why is the federal government subsidizing extravagance?

9/8/2005 3:20:07 PM

I agree, but I fail to see why a cable repair contractor cannot deduct his entire van, weighing less than 6k, while a construction contractor can deduct his F350. They both need the vehicle, there must have been more rational than "the counstruction guy needs his vehicle MORE than the cable guy" which is questionable at best.

9/8/2005 4:42:39 PM

Quote :

"Imagine, tax breaks to drive a SUV mentality, while hybrids go for full price"

wrong on both counts.

there is a new, large credit for hybrids ($2,000, i think). the SUV loophole has been greatly reduced, and it's about to close altogether. the terms were:

1. you must be self-employed (that eliminates a lot of people upfront)
2. GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT of 6k pounds or more (max loaded weight, not how much the truck weighs). this includes stuff as small as BMW X5s.
3. 50% or more business use

9/8/2005 4:51:06 PM

Section 179 was designated mainly for farm equipment to allow the full depreciation value to happen in the first year instead of over several years.

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/Edit/tips/Stories/sec179_deduction.asp

Quote :

"Congress periodically reviews the amount a taxpayer can claim as the annual Section 179 amount. As part of an economic stimulus and tax-reduction package signed into law in May 2003, the expense limit was hiked from $25,000 to $100,000. An inflation adjustment for 2004 added another $2,000 to the limit. The bigger deduction also will be available again for the 2005 tax year, again with a possible adjustment for inflation. Lawmakers upped the immediate deduction amount in the hopes it would encourage businesses to invest in new equipment sooner. However, when it comes to vehicles purchased utilizing the Section 179 break, legislators took back some of the benefit as it related to large sport utility vehicles. When the limit was originally increased, business owners were allowed to select for company use one of several light-truck models (which included many luxury SUVs) weighing more than 6,000 pounds fully loaded and write off most, if not all, of the costs on their tax returns. That changed on Oct. 22, when the American Jobs Creation Act became law; now only company vehicles weighing 14,000 or more are eligible for the larger deduction amount. Any amount of property over the maximum deduction must be depreciated. "

Also note:

Quote :

"As of October 22, 2004, the maximum amount that can be claimed for SUVs weighing between 6,000 and 14,000 pounds is $25,000. The remaining $77,000 can be used for other kinds of business equipment, including vehicles weighing more than 14,000 pounds. To be eligible for the Section 179 deduction, the asset must be used at least 50% for business in the first year it is placed in service. The cost eligible for the deduction is the business usage percentage."

So if a doctor buys an H2 for business purposes (ie driving to work), he can't deduct the full value of the vehicle unless he only uses it to drive to and from work.

My sister-in-law took advantage of this loophole and got a Mercedes SUV. She's in real estate so she uses it all the time to take people to see houses and to get to work and back.

9/8/2005 4:58:58 PM

[quote]Response to demand, by definition, is reactionary. It supplies no vision of where you want to be in the future - only responds until you run out of resources, and then you look for another plan. That is the reason we are in the mess today.[quote]

Yet what if the vision is that you allow the markets to manage the supply and demand issues, such as it is now? With gas prices hitting $3, all the major auto manufacturers are rapidly developing and building new hybrid models as the demand for the technology is being pushed hard by the markets. That has always been the traditional Republican mantra; let the markets settle the issue, not direct interference or centralized control from government (though I admit that they haven't always been faithful to this creed).

I seriously doubt the tax breaks really made much difference in people buying SUVs; they would've bought one regardless, this was just gravy on top of it. That, and this little loophole I believe was more just an oversight than it was some intentional attempt to increase the market share of SUVs by the government. Whereas tax credits and other incentives for hybrids (like access to HOV lanes... a VERY big deal if you live in cities like DC) were a deliberate move to promote the technology.

9/8/2005 6:01:01 PM