The mayor of New Orleans is the guy who really deserves the credit. Screw that little bald guy, Ray Nagin should get all of that political pull. Just listen to him: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/

Quote :

"we authorized $8 billion to go to Iraq lickety-quick. After 9/11, we gave the president unprecedented powers lickety-quick to take care of New York and other places. Now, you mean to tell me that a place where most of your oil is coming through, a place that is so unique when you mention New Orleans anywhere around the world, everybody's eyes light up -- you mean to tell me that a place where you probably have thousands of people that have died and thousands more that are dying every day, that we can't figure out a way to authorize the resources that we need? Come on, man."

I apologize if giuliani taking some pictures with firemen doesn't impress me, but this guy is really getting shit done, this is what a mayor should do.

9/5/2005 9:22:30 PM

He hasn't done squat other than trying to cover his ass.

9/5/2005 9:29:00 PM

The man has been out there helping his people

not just setting up rescue effort sets long enough for a photo-op

9/5/2005 9:30:20 PM

Ray Nagin hasn't done shit except cuss into the cameras and pass the blame from himself

9/5/2005 9:31:20 PM

if i was in a situation i would want someone that gave me guidance and comfort and then knew how to bitch in the appropriate channels

not someone who go's on the news complaining about everything and saying how screwed we are

9/5/2005 9:35:07 PM

kris really is funny sometimes

9/5/2005 9:42:34 PM

He's not to blame. A destruction of the city is not something the mayor is equipped to deal with.

9/5/2005 9:49:23 PM

well, i mean, hes right about giuliani. this guys done just as much if not more than he did.

oh, wait, im sure theres some bravery thing im missing here.

9/5/2005 10:12:46 PM

They're all politicians. No point sucking their dick.

9/5/2005 10:16:12 PM

He's not to blame...

It's well beyond the mayor's capacity to organize transportation for those that don't have it.

It's well beyond the mayor's capacity to ensure that a pre-designated shelter is stocked with several days of food and water.

It's well beyond the mayor's capacity to maintain discipline in the police department.

It's well beyond the mayor's capacity to not use his pointer finger. Of course, this is something that he shares with many others.

9/5/2005 10:17:19 PM

Quote :

"Kris The mayor of New Orleans is the guy who really deserves the credit. Screw that little bald guy, Ray Nagin should get all of that political pull. Just listen to him: "

Thank God for his rant...people finally got off their butts, and started working!! If he hadn't sent out his "SOS" the SuperDome probably would be still full of people. The FEDS were dragging their feet before then.

9/5/2005 10:17:55 PM

no matter what you do, use of wordy dirds and/or sex in your everyday life makes you a horrible horrible person.

because noone else would dare do such things.

9/5/2005 10:17:55 PM

YOU LIBERALS MAKE ME SICK

RUDY GIULIANI WAS AND IS A GREAT MAN

ALL THIS ASSHOLE DID WAS COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN ABOUT HIS STUPID CITY

RUDY GOT OUT THERE AND GOT HIS HANDS DIRTY!

9/5/2005 10:23:57 PM

i cant tell if Kaety81 is being sarcastic

cause i was going to make a remark like that but it would be complete sarcasm

9/5/2005 10:26:06 PM

Quote :

"Ray Nagin hasn't done shit except cuss into the cameras and pass the blame from himself"

How can you blame him? Go ahead, show me the "buck" in his hand. This man isn't to blame for not getting proper relief, it's not possible for him to do anything short of fussing and fighting to try and get the people who should be sending relief to send it, which exactly what I am commending him for. He's talking about the dead, not kissing ass like the govenor seems to like to do. He's trying to get help and he's kicking and cussing up a storm to get it, because that's really his only option. He's out there trying to help the people, and when he talks to the press he's telling them what's going on, he's trying to get help. The man isn't sitting in press conferences or having staged photo-ops, he's trying to get something done.

[Edited on September 5, 2005 at 10:39 PM. Reason : ^how so jonboy?]

9/5/2005 10:33:01 PM

Quote :

"You guys want to suck Rudy Giuliani's dick "

I think I'll pass.

9/5/2005 10:33:05 PM

No sarcasm at all...I haven't found any humor in this disaster.

9/5/2005 11:12:02 PM

oh ok

so you really think that without is bitching rescue efforts wouldn't have come

gg

9/5/2005 11:13:09 PM

at least nyc still existed to form a support group

9/6/2005 12:00:23 AM

IF THAT LITTLE DICKSUCKER NAGIN DID HIS JOB..... WHY DID HE NOT PREPARE HIS CITY THE SAME WAY CITIES IN FLORIDA DID IN THE PAST???? Why did he not establish curfews BEFORE the storm. Why did he not request National Guardsmen BEFORE the storm. HE fucked up. HE is responsible for HIS city.

These prick politicians in Louisiana are the ones that were asleep at the wheel.

This catastrophe in New Orleans is an example of how inept and incompetent backwards-ass local and state governments can royally screw up a situation.

9/6/2005 12:02:09 AM

this is a much more complicated and difficult disaster than 9/11 (at least for the rescue efforts involved). this is not to say there weren't some fuck-ups in NO. but how much did rudy have to do? he just had to act strong. 2000 people died pretty much all at once in nyc. and then it was over. the "rescue efforts" were pretty much just for show after the first day. all rudy had to do was deal with some grieving people and some traffic issues.

oh yeah and there was that whole business with saying the air was totally cool to breathe in nyc.

9/6/2005 9:31:30 AM

and a city that was paralyzed with fear. I think you are underestimating the strategic involvment that Rudy and his staff had in that whole affair. I mean think about one aspect, public transportation, and how much that took to get back on track as quick as it did. On the outside it seemed all he was going was parading around and talking to those who lost loved ones but the behind the scenes work he did was a HUGE task.

9/6/2005 11:02:45 AM

LICKETY-QUICK?

9/6/2005 11:36:27 AM

Quote :

"at least nyc still existed to form a support group"

9/6/2005 11:37:51 AM

40% of New Orleans residents live at or below the poverty line. There is a reason we have a federal gov't and FEMA, it's called resources.

9/6/2005 11:38:52 AM

Actually, it is coming out that the Mayor asked the Governor to ask the President for help, and when Bush told the Governor that the Fed was ready to help, the Governor wanted to wait 24 hours.

But Bush is still at fault.

btw, who is taking care of business in MS and AL? Oh, right, the local and state officials (with federal aid), as law requires them to.

hmm...interesting

9/6/2005 4:40:31 PM

again...

Quote :

"at least nyc still existed to form a support group"

9/6/2005 4:56:51 PM

Ah, so the real reason that NO is in such a shitty situation has nothing to do with the incompetence of the local and state governments, nothing to do with the fact that people refused (and STILL refuse) to evacuate and nothing to do with cops and law enforcement abandoning their jobs and nothing to do with the shitty nature of people who are too stupid to realize that looting a killing don't help shit and has everything to do with the fact that there's no building to hold support groups in.

9/6/2005 5:25:22 PM

you guys realize they predicted how many people would not evacuate, right?

9/6/2005 5:26:18 PM

The local government of NO had no excuse. They had a close call last year. And Katrina was parked out in the gulf for a good bit of time before she came ashore.

The damn city is under sea level... if you stayed behind, it's your own fault.

9/6/2005 8:03:09 PM

Quote :

"oh ok so you really think that without is bitching rescue efforts wouldn't have come gg"

They would've eventually...it should have never gotten to that point. With all the resources we have in this country, federal resources should have been in LA by Wednesday afternoon @ the latest. This is not freakin Rwanda...somebody should have made something happen a lot quicker.

9/6/2005 10:00:38 PM

and you really thinking the mayors public bitching did a lot to speed things up?

9/6/2005 10:02:21 PM

Yes.

9/6/2005 10:11:24 PM

i think it hurt the morale of the people

he should have bitched, but to the right people

9/6/2005 10:14:21 PM

Umm...how could he have hurt morale of the people NO? Its not like they were sitting in their homes watching him on TV. There was no electricity or running water. They had been living in a cesspool (i.e. Superdome) or sitting on top of their roofs for DAYS. I don't imagine morale could have gotten much lower. If anything it had to have raised it. At least somebody was acknowledging the dire they were living in!

9/6/2005 10:37:16 PM

all i know is that i hope none of my leaders ever start complaining like that
i want guidance

9/6/2005 10:40:11 PM

He's right. As a leader in a bad situation you're not supposed to sit there and bitch, you're supposed to make the best of it and then bitch out the people who made the situation bad behind closed doors. Bitching in public solves nothing and makes things worse more often than not.

9/6/2005 10:47:05 PM

Quote :

"They would've eventually...it should have never gotten to that point. With all the resources we have in this country, federal resources should have been in LA by Wednesday afternoon @ the latest. This is not freakin Rwanda...somebody should have made something happen a lot quicker."

I'm not going to try and protect FEMA and the White House because both of them botched this job at the federal level and deserve the flak they're getting.

However, I am pissed that the governor of Louisiana and the mayor of New Orleans are escaping their share of the blame. It's true that New Orleans wouldn't be able to weather the entire storm by itself, but there are still MANY things they could have done to help mitigate the effects and reduce loss of life. For one, the city has so badly neglected its police force, both in training and equipment, that about 20% of its ranks deserted, ie. took off their uniforms and abandoned their city, in the first couple of days.

On top of that, despite being in a hurricane prone location and living under the constant threat of flooding, the city was woefully underprepared for this disaster compared to about every other major city on the coast from Texas through Virginia. Hell, at very least, he had a fleet of school buses to move citizens out of the city had they actually gave a damn about the poor.

However, it's the government of the state of Louisiana that bears the bulk of the burden for this fubar. True, they have a large number of National Guard units overseas, but the governor still had about 6,500 troops still at her disposal along with the various state law enforcement agencies. They should have been prepositioned and ready to move into the region in larger numbers.

Again, the Federal government still has plenty to answer for, but let's not allow the state and city to use it as a scapegoat to deflect blame away from them.

9/7/2005 9:55:45 AM

here's your "buck" Kris

Nagin didnt issue a mandatory evacuation until about 14 hours before the storm hit - he didnt even want to do that

He had over 2000 school busses at his disposal, to get his people out...you know, those that couldnt drive. Why didnt he use those? Because he was so stupid and inept that he didnt think about it.

All of this will come out in the wash

9/7/2005 10:50:03 AM

It's worth noting the NO emergency plan talks specifically about using city busses to transport people out of the city:

http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=3

9/7/2005 11:16:42 AM

I've always wondered why Giuliani got so large after 9/11.

He did what anyone with a brain would do.

I'd attribute credit to his success for the things he did in NY prior to 9/11.

9/7/2005 11:58:06 AM

what was that? Judith Nathan?

Quote :

"Nagin didnt issue a mandatory evacuation until about 14 hours before the storm hit - he didnt even want to do that"

First off, I'd like to see your evidence, secondly, the evacution was fine, what was the problem was the breach in the main levee. Which is why I find it funny that all of you automatically try and blame him and leave the federal government spotless. What was Nagin supposed to do? Go out there with hammers and nails and fix the levee himself? He can't possibly be blamed for a lack of funding for SELA and the Army Corps of Engineers. I can think of one person who can, the person who lead us into a completely useless war, and drained money that would have been used for flood control into shooting people in caves and sand huts.

I'll quote bush here: "I don’t think anyone anticipated breach of the levees".
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/01/AR2005090102261.html?sub=AR

Quote :

"so you really think that without is bitching rescue efforts wouldn't have come"

It's way too late for that, rescue efforts didn't come.

It took way too long for the federal government to react to a disaster that should have been averted anyway. Someone SHOULD be held responsible.

9/7/2005 5:03:16 PM

Quote :

"the evacution was fine"

They evacuated people to shelters to with no generators, no food, no water and apparently with no one in charge and that's 'fine' by you?

As for the levees...regardless of whether or not they were finished, they were only designed for a category 3 hurricane. Katrina was a very strong 4. I don't know what Bush knows about levees, but Nagin, Blanco and the civil authorities in LA should've been prepared for a levee failure. They not only knew it was possible, they knew levee failure was likely.

And don't solely blame Bush for a lack of SELA funding. Read this:
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=346764&page=1#7460723

Quote :

"...and leave the federal government spotless."

I don't think anyone is saying this. And no one should be taking the other tack and saying that all blame lies with the feds.

9/7/2005 6:37:05 PM

Quote :

"First off, I'd like to see your evidence, secondly, the evacution was fine, what was the problem was the breach in the main levee."

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2005/katrina/interactive/timeline.katrina/frameset.exclude.html

August 28 10 a.m.: As Katrina hits 175 mph winds, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin orders mandatory evacuations as the storm seems to beat a direct path to the city.

August 29 7 a.m.: Katrina makes landfall on the Louisiana coast between Grand Isle and the mouth of the Mississippi River.

21 hours.

Quote :

"Which is why I find it funny that all of you automatically try and blame him and leave the federal government spotless. What was Nagin supposed to do? Go out there with hammers and nails and fix the levee himself? He can't possibly be blamed for a lack of funding for SELA and the Army Corps of Engineers. I can think of one person who can, the person who lead us into a completely useless war, and drained money that would have been used for flood control into shooting people in caves and sand huts."

The levees were designed and built for Cat 3 hurricanes. Tell me what all the funding in the world would have done to change that fact?

Quote :

"It's way too late for that, rescue efforts didn't come. It took way too long for the federal government to react to a disaster that should have been averted anyway. Someone SHOULD be held responsible."

Try the state government who failed to give the feds the authority and control they needed.

9/8/2005 11:33:42 AM

Quote :

"Nagin didnt issue a mandatory evacuation until about 14 hours before the storm hit - he didnt even want to do that"

Quote :

"August 28 10 a.m.: As Katrina hits 175 mph winds, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin orders mandatory evacuations as the storm seems to beat a direct path to the city. August 29 7 a.m.: Katrina makes landfall on the Louisiana coast between Grand Isle and the mouth of the Mississippi River. 21 hours."

I guess I was right to question his assertion, as that's a pretty big difference. 21 hours seems sufficient, I think the the evactuation was timely, storms can change paths fairly suddenly.

Quote :

"They evacuated people to shelters to with no generators, no food, no water and apparently with no one in charge"

What was the other option? Not evacuate them? Clone people to replace the FEMA and National Guard personel that should have been there?

I was saying that given the situation the evacuation was done as best it could have been done by the mayor (the govener is a shithead).

Quote :

"As for the levees...regardless of whether or not they were finished, they were only designed for a category 3 hurricane."

And the city wasn't designed to function underwater, is that the city's fault too? The levees SHOULD HAVE BEEN FINISHED, if they had thousands of people would not be dead right now.

Quote :

"The levees were designed and built for Cat 3 hurricanes. Tell me what all the funding in the world would have done to change that fact?"

More funding could have put the levees in the state that they should have been at to begin with. That was easy.

Quote :

"Try the state government who failed to give the feds the authority and control they needed."

The state government did fuck up bigtime, but the feds should have been able to go in there anyways, the federal government has the power to step in on a guy pulling the plug on his vegtable wife but they can't step in on a disaster that dealt a crippling blow to our economic infrastructure? That's bullshit, and they are throwing the hot potato between them, but the fact is they both fucked up royally.

9/8/2005 11:51:17 AM

Quote :

"he state government did fuck up bigtime, but the feds should have been able to go in there anyways"

I completely agree. The FEMA should have been coordinating the existing groups on the ground; they were there, they had authorization from the Federal government, but they dropped the ball.

Quote :

"They evacuated people to shelters to with no generators, no food, no water and apparently with no one in charge What was the other option?"

Considering that this city is in a hurricane and flood prone area, shouldn't the city have prepared emergency supplies at designated shelter sites for just such an event? Maybe not food and water (since it's of limited shelf life), but at very least, basic supplies such as generators, beds, and whatnot. The city and state governments should've had better planning to handle this, especially since they are the first line of defense.

9/8/2005 12:21:06 PM

Uh, they've actually invented this food inside of metal tubes that lasts for a really long time.

9/8/2005 12:22:34 PM

And perfume for your armpits.

9/8/2005 12:44:24 PM

Quote :

"Considering that this city is in a hurricane and flood prone area, shouldn't the city have prepared emergency supplies at designated shelter sites for just such an event?"

That would cost way more than just fixing the levees. You don't need a shelter if the appropriate preventative measures were put in place to begin with. The city streets SHOULDNT be flooded.

9/8/2005 7:27:08 PM

I think this sums up a week's worth of mulling this over:

Quote :

"The state government did fuck up bigtime, but the feds should have been able to go in there anyways, the federal government has the power to step in on a guy pulling the plug on his vegtable wife but they can't step in on a disaster that dealt a crippling blow to our economic infrastructure? That's bullshit, and they are throwing the hot potato between them, but the fact is they both fucked up royally."

That, and boundless disappointment at the DHS's first test-run of a major disaster in a major American city.

9/8/2005 8:25:07 PM