no, lonesnark, the government is violating the rights of a corporation. not an individual. I view the rights of a company as vastly different than the rights of individuals. You can talk about human rights all you want, but a sovereign nation can seize the property of a company that is viewed as hurting its people any day of the week.

I'm saying that this was an assumed risk for Heinz, and not some international tragedy that is worth our time and attention.

disclaimer: I am playing devil's advocate.

9/12/2005 1:46:32 AM

Quote :

"The US Constitution seems to list property right next to life and liberty. "

then perhaps heinz should have built in a territory governed by the US Constitution

9/12/2005 7:55:08 AM

^pwnt.

9/12/2005 8:32:33 AM

^^ I didn't say Venezuela was violating Venezuelan law, I said they were violating a higher moral law.

That said, neither was I saying this was some international tragedy, but I have some free time. Look, I'm not saying this is the end of the world. Governments all around the world violate human rights all the time, that doesn't make it meaningless when they do it.

Quote :

"the government is violating the rights of a corporation. not an individual."

Corporations are owned by individuals, just like your car. Or if we were discussing a car siezure would you be saying "the government is violating the rights of a car, not an individual."

Quote :

"That is one of the assumed risks with foreign investment"

Going back to an earlier example, what if instead Heinz was arrested and executed in Cuba for being counter revolutionary? Obviously she would have known before travelling to Cuba this might happen, so it was an assumed risk, but does that make it any less wrong? Perhaps you are saying the US could begin torturing Iraqi's as soon as we put up signs saying we will and give everyone a window for leaving the country if they wish.

I dunno, maybe everyone here is right and it's only a problem when the US commits a moral violation.

[Edited on September 12, 2005 at 9:06 AM. Reason : .]

9/12/2005 9:03:47 AM

well, it kinda is only right for me to criticize america, since we are supposed to be better than everyone else (And we are)

and even then, a bunch of conservative idiots like ThaBigGirl think i shouldn't ever say anything to question america or her leaders....

but i def don't think we should hold other countries to our standards
we certainly don't like being held to those of other countries

9/12/2005 10:13:35 AM

^ Your argument would only work if I was one of those people that suggested America should not be held to the standards of other countries, which is bull. If I want to criticise Venezuela, that's my business. If Venezuela wants to criticise the US, that's fine too.

We are all human, just because America, arguably, has been more sucessful as a country does not change the fact that it is just another country enhabited by ordinary human beings. America is an exceptional country, but it is still a country.

9/12/2005 10:37:00 AM

Quote :

"Any government anywhere in the world can execute or mame you at basically any time. This is one of the assumed risks of travelling overseas - the probability that the government will seize you, with due process of law of course, and punish you accordingly."

Actually, as a US citizen you are protected by the US embassy and international laws.

Quote :

"The US Constitution seems to list property right next to life and liberty."

Touche, I was thinking of the Declaration of Independence as it is more specifically addressing human rights.

Quote :

"This statement does not twist the language or use the wrong words."

That one doesn't, but your first one did.

9/12/2005 12:01:32 PM

^loneshark was also thinking dec. independence, considering that he was quoting it.

9/12/2005 12:54:02 PM

^ Perhaps, but the Declaration of Independence is not a legally binding document where-as the Constitution is supposed to be.

^^ Glad to see we've finally reached the point at which we agree
Now, I just have to get you to renounce your beliefs and we can agree more often.

9/12/2005 7:01:50 PM