http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/nation/12707654.htm

registration required - passwords here: http://www.bugmenot.com/

Quote :

"An 'Immoral' Cover-up By Nancy Phillips and David O'Reilly Inquirer Staff Writers A grand jury yesterday excoriated the Philadelphia Archdiocese and its former top leaders, saying they allowed hundreds of sexual assaults against children to go unpunished and protected the priests who committed the crimes. In searing language, the panel accused former church officials - including Cardinals Anthony J. Bevilacqua and John Krol - of "burying" abuse reports, ignoring warnings about abusive priests, and shuttling offenders from parish to parish, where some found new victims. "Sexually abusive priests were left quietly in place or 'recycled' to unsuspecting new parishes - vastly expanding the number of children who were abused," the grand jury concluded. The hierarchy "excused and enabled the abuse" for decades, the grand jury said in a 418-page report, while demonstrating "utter indifference to the suffering of the victims." The grand jurors, who spent three years investigating, concluded that Krol and Bevilacqua were more concerned with protecting the reputation and legal and financial interests of the archdiocese than the children entrusted to its care. "In its callous, calculating manner, the archdiocese's 'handling' of the abuse scandal was at least as immoral as the abuse itself," the grand jury stated in its report. Yet the panel recommended no criminal charges, saying it was thwarted by the statute of limitations and a church hierarchy that keep silent about the abuses until it was too late for prosecutors to make a case. "Regrettably, the perpetrators of these crimes and the people who protected them will never face the criminal penalties that they deserve," District Attorney Lynne M. Abraham said yesterday. The report called on the legislature to enact a broad array of legislation, including a recall of the statute of limitations related to sexual abuse of minors. The archdiocese angrily denounced the grand jury report as "incredibly biased and anti-Catholic." In a blistering 70-page response, the church officials and lawyers called it "a vile, mean-spirited diatribe." While condemning the "abhorrent behavior" of abusive priests, the church vigorously defended Krol and Bevilacqua and said the report was "rife with mistakes, unsupported inferences and misguided conclusions." Cardinal Justin Rigali, who succeeded Bevilacqua as archbishop in 2003, defended his predecessors, telling a news conference that the archdiocese under Krol and Bevilacqua had sought "to do what was thought to be the most effective thing at the time." But, he added, "we wouldn't do the same things today." Abraham fired back at the church's rebuttal with a memo of her own, saying it was filled with the "all too familiar denials, deceptions and evasions" that she said had characterized the church's handling of the abuse crisis. She said the response gave her no confidence that the church's responses to abuse complaints "will be better in the future." Abuse victims praised Abraham and the grand jurors, saying its breadth and scope of the report were remarkable. "I don't know how Lynne Abraham could have been more forceful," said John Salveson, a local spokesman for Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests. "The truth, as horrifying as it is, is now out in the open. We believe it will help survivors heal." The grand jury report was startling in its expression of sheer outrage and striking for the depth of detail of the abuses. "What we have found were not acts of God, but of men who acted in His name and defiled it," the grand jury said. The grand jury concluded that at least 63 priests - and probably many more - abused hundreds of victims over the past several decades. According to the report, victims of the abuse included: An 11-year-old girl who was repeatedly raped by a priest who took her for an abortion when she became pregnant. A fifth grader who was molested by a priest inside a confessional. A teenage girl who was groped by a priest while she lay immobilized in traction in a hospital room. A priest who offered money to boys in exchange for sadomasochistic acts of bondage and wrote a letter asking a boy to make him his "slave." The priest remains in ministry. A priest who abused boys playing the roles of Jesus and other biblical characters in a parish Passion play by making them disrobe, don loincloths, and whip each other until they had cuts, bruises and welts. A priest who falsely told a 12-year-old boy his mother knew of the assaults and consented to the rape of her son. The grand jury found that many victims were abused for years and that many priests abused multiple victims, sometimes preying on members of the same family. The Rev. Albert T. Kostelnick had 18 victims, according to the grand jury. The Rev. James J. Brzyski, whose conduct the report described as a "criminal rampage," abused 17 victims, many of them from a single parish. The Rev. Nicholas V. Cudemo abused 16 victims, staying in ministry for decades after the first abuse report came in 1966. "We find it hard to comprehend or absorb the full extent of the malevolence and suffering visited on this community, under cover of the clerical collar, by powerful, respected and rapacious priests," the jurors wrote. Files the church turned over to prosecutors as part of the investigation involved accusations against 169 priests made since 1967. Many, however, were incomplete, the grand jury said. In some, victims' names were not recorded, while others concealed the abuse with euphemisms. Attempted rapes, for example, were sometimes described as "touches," the grand jury reported. The grand jury investigation, led by Abraham's prosecutors, chose to focus on 63 cases it was able to document, and outlined 28 in detail. In those cases, the jurors found evidence that Krol - who was archbishop from 1961 to 1988 - routinely reassigned abusive priests in order to avoid scandal. "For most of Cardinal Krol's tenure, concealment mainly entailed victims' persuading parents not to report the priests' crimes to police, and transferring priests to other parishes if parents demanded it or if 'general scandal' seemed imminent," according to the report. Under Bevilacqua, who was archbishop from 1988 to 2003, the report said fear of costly lawsuits motivated church officials to conceal abuses from law enforcement authorities, parishioners and the public. The grand jury reported that Bevilacqua had a "strict policy, according to his aides, that forbid informing parishioners... about any problems in a priest's background." "Parishioners were not told, or were misled about, the reason for the abuser's transfer," according to the report. "...The result of the Archdiocese's purposeful action was to multiply the number of children exposed to these priests while reducing the possibility that their parents could protect them." The files are replete with examples of cases in which Bevilacqua reassigned abusive priests or allowed them to remain in ministry. In one case, he assigned an admitted abuser, the Rev. John J. Delli Carpini, to write homilies and speeches for him and to work in the archdiocesan press office, even as it fielded inquiries about the sex-abuse scandal. Della Carpini, diagnosed with a "sexual disorder and severe personality disorder," had admitting to assaulting a boy for years. The victim reported the assaults to the church in 1998; Bevilacqua allowed the priest to remain in ministry and live in a parish until 2002, the report said. Bevilacqua allowed known abusers to remain in ministry after receiving warnings about them, the grand jurors said. In three cases, the priests abused again after finding more victims in their new assignments, the panel said. The grand jury said church officials did not call police to report assaults against children, even in cases in which priests admitted the attacks. Asked why the church had not alerted police, Bevilacqua told the grand jury that the law did not require them to. "That answer is unacceptable," the grand jury said. "It reflects a willingness to allow such crimes to continue, as well as an utter indifference to the suffering of the victims." The grand jury also observed that as recently as 2002, Bevilacqua and his representatives knowingly understated the extent of sexual abuse within the church. The grand jury said it documented scores of crimes by dozens of priests. There was evidence of rape, involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, statutory sexual assault, indecent assault, endangering the welfare of children, and corruption of minors. But in all cases, the panel said, the abuse happened years, if not decades, ago, and the statute of limitations on any crimes had expired. The panel said it had considered charging the archdiocese with endangering the welfare of children, corruption of minors, victim/witness intimidation, hindering apprehension, and obstruction of justice. But again, it said, the statute of limitations on any crimes had expired. So the panel was left with what it described as "a travesty of justice, a multitude of crimes for which no one can be held criminally accountable.""

Absolutely sickening. The Church of Rome is rotten to the core. The cover-up of these crimes goes all the way up the hierarchy of the church, even to the pope. And then these monsters have the nerve to suggest that exposing these crimes is "anti-Catholic" and "mean-spirited". Reminds you of how the Zionists scream "anti-Semitism" and "hate" if you expose the truth about them.

9/28/2005 8:57:28 AM

religions blow.

9/28/2005 9:19:46 AM

Quote :

"An 11-year-old girl who was repeatedly raped by a priest who took her for an abortion when she became pregnant."

omfg!

I thought they only liked the boys.

9/28/2005 10:33:54 AM

Man, I'm just gonna become a priest. They pull all kinds of ass.

9/28/2005 12:19:19 PM

^^ I thought so too, and most did stick to boys. A few of them did both genders, though.

9/28/2005 10:49:44 PM

More hate filled anti-Catholic bullshit.

Even to the pope huh, interesting

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 1:21 PM. Reason : add]

9/29/2005 1:20:34 PM

So uncovering rape is "hate filled anti-Catholic bullshit"?

9/29/2005 1:25:42 PM

More?

What was the previous bullshit?

9/29/2005 1:26:09 PM

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=154658

9/29/2005 1:41:02 PM

Yeah, salisburyboy posted the link. But it's not like this is a link to infowars or something. This is the Philadelphia Inquirer. It is sourced from a report written by the Philadelphia District Attorney's office.

For the full 97 page report, including the catalog of offending priests and where they are now, check out http://www.realcities.com/multimedia/philly/inquirer/KRT_packages/archive/appendix_a.pdf

9/29/2005 1:57:24 PM

Why not talk about all the protestant ministers who commit rape? Or all the non-ministerial people? Oh wait I forgot - it's anti-Catholic bullshit.

9/29/2005 2:10:28 PM

Last I checked there weren't any widespread molestation coverups in the Protestant churches.

9/29/2005 2:20:25 PM

I have absolutely no problem with talking about that. What we are dealing with here, though, is an institution with a huge problem of rape and molestation of minors, as well as an institutionalized process for hiding or ignoring it.. Do you not see how there is a difference?

Most denominations of Christianity are not organized in the way that Catholocism is. That doesn't even matter, though. If you want to make a thread about the widespread rape of children in Protestant churches, be my guest. As it stands, it has no relevance to this discussion. "But everybody's doing it!" just doesn't cut it when we're talking about conspiracy to cover up the widespread rape of children.

9/29/2005 2:22:18 PM

But to solely focus on the infinitessimal number of Catholic priests instead of looking at, well, anything else, betrays an anti-Catholic motivation.

9/29/2005 2:25:34 PM

in·fin·i·tes·i·mal Audio pronunciation of "infinitesimal" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nfn--ts-ml)
adj.

1. Immeasurably or incalculably minute.

9/29/2005 2:28:39 PM

Show me a Protestant molestation coverup and we'll discuss that, too.

Better yet, address the issue at hand: the Catholic Church is protecting child molesters from the law.

9/29/2005 2:28:44 PM

^^ I am familiar with the definitions of words that I use.

9/29/2005 2:35:07 PM

Quote :

"The grand jury concluded that at least 63 priests - and probably many more - abused hundreds of victims over the past several decades."

This is 63 priests IN ONE ARCHDIOCESE. I would in no way call that "incalculably minute".

9/29/2005 2:40:36 PM

LA LA LA LA

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 2:47 PM. Reason : I'm not listening]

9/29/2005 2:47:25 PM

Quote :

"As it stands, it has no relevance to this discussion. "But everybody's doing it!" just doesn't cut it when we're talking about conspiracy to cover up the widespread rape of children."

It has one little bit of relevance, which is that every single person, priest or otherwise, who is allegedly raping and molesting children, should be investigated. I don't give a fuck if he's protestant or catholic or satanist. But you're right, since there's a conspiracy to cover all of this up, that's even worse.

The whole catholic church, all THE WAY TO THE POPE, should be investigated, and every single person connected to the molestations and the coverup should be indicted, and every one of them who is guilty should go to prison for a LONG, LONG, LONG TIME.

The catholic church and other large christian churches have been lying and swindling their way into power for centuries, and this is the end result. IT HAS TO STOP.

9/29/2005 2:53:55 PM

Quote :

"Wolfpack2K: More hate filled anti-Catholic bullshit. "

Weeelll...someone has more than got their panties in a wad.

Very interesting that you made the same hysterical rant as the catholic leaders about exposing the truth about these crimes as being "anti-Catholic." That's just absolutely ridiculous.

Also, you call it "bullshit." Does this mean that you believe the findings of the grand jury are false? It was just all made up, right? Because they are so rabidly "anti-Catholic"? HAHAHA! What a joke.

9/29/2005 2:54:48 PM

For the people who assume that the accused priests are guilty - are you familiar with what a grand jury does? Let's start at the beginning - how does a grand jury differ from a petit (or traverse) jury?

There is a reason why people only focus on this, yes infinitessimal number of priests in the whole Church, to the absolute exclusion of everything else. And now people are accusing the Pope himself of stuff, what a stupid suggestion that is.

^^ So you admit now that it is not just anti-Catholicism, but anti-Christianity in general. That's why you have Christianity under a microscope and blow out of all proportion anything that is wrong. Is that a fair assessment of your last statement?

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 3:13 PM. Reason : add]

9/29/2005 3:12:25 PM

I know what a grand jury is. I'm not saying that all of the accused are necessarily guilty. That doesn't change my stance.

What is an acceptible rate, to you, of molestation and cover-up?

9/29/2005 3:17:17 PM

But you seem to be going on the premise that they are.

9/29/2005 3:19:35 PM

I guess I tend to assume that if there is a cover up, there's something to be covered up.

p.s. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/26/priest.abuse.ap/index.html

Way to go. So there's eleven guys who have been molesting people in Chicago. The church, for once, is taking them out of action (although not technically removing their priesthood for some reason), but THEY ARE KEEPING THEIR IDENTITIES A SECRET.

9/29/2005 3:22:34 PM

There were two assumptions that you made. What were they? Try putting it in logical syllogism form.

9/29/2005 3:30:02 PM

IT'S ALL JUST "HATE-FILLED ANTI-CATHOLIC" HYSTERIA, PEOPLE! NONE OF THESE PRIESTS DID ANYTHING WRONG. WHO CARES IF HUNDREDS/THOUSANDS HAVE BEEN ACCUSED AND MANY HUNDREDS FOUND GUILTY AS WELL. AND THERE IS NO COVER-UP BY CHURCH LEADERS AND PROTECTION OF CHILD MOLESTERS BY THE ROMAN CHURCH HIERARCHY! NO SIRRRE BOB! THEY'RE ALL ANGELS WHO COULD NEVER DO ANYTHING WRONG. AND THE POPE IS GOD. HE'S INFALLIABLE! DESERVING OF OUR WORSHIP AND ADORATION!

WOLFPACK2K TOLD ME SO IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME.

9/29/2005 3:36:44 PM

u paint urself to be more of an asshat with every post...keep it up

9/29/2005 3:39:39 PM

that's a complement coming from you

9/29/2005 3:40:22 PM

Several errors.

1. NONE OF THESE PRIESTS DID ANYTHING WRONG. - Nope, not saying that.
2. WHO CARES IF HUNDREDS/THOUSANDS HAVE BEEN ACCUSED - Yes, accusation does not equal guilt.
3. AND THERE IS NO COVER-UP BY CHURCH LEADERS - Perhaps there was in the past, perhaps not. The Church is all about forgiveness for those wanting forgiveness. I am not saying that bishops did everything right, but it's not a reason to discredit the entire church.
4. ALL ANGELS WHO COULD NEVER DO ANYTHING WRONG. - No, that would be "immaculate", and no one has ever said that anyone in the Church with the exception of the Blessed Virgin Mary was immaculate.
5. AND THE POPE IS GOD. - No, the Pope is the Pope. God Is God.
6. HE'S INFALLIABLE! - Yes.
7. DESERVING OF OUR WORSHIP AND ADORATION! - Nope, worship and adoration is latria, and the reverence we show for God's chosen leaders is a version of dulia.

9/29/2005 3:43:16 PM

lol so bein labeled an asshat is a compliment? wow u really are fucked up in the head.

9/29/2005 3:44:10 PM

IT'S ALL "ANTI-CATHOLIC BULLSHIT" PEOPLE!!!

BULLSHIT I TELL YA!

THE POPE IS INFALLIABLE! AND HE SAYS THE ROMAN CHURCH HAS DONE NOTHING WRONG! SO THERE! CASE CLOSED, YOU EVIL HATE-FILLED ANTI-CATHOLIC BIGOTS!

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 3:47 PM. Reason : 1]

9/29/2005 3:46:37 PM

Quote :

"lol so bein labeled an asshat is a compliment?"

When you are the one making the accusation...yes.

9/29/2005 3:47:23 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

9/29/2005 3:48:07 PM

Quote :

"THE POPE IS INFALLIABLE! AND HE SAYS THE ROMAN CHURCH HAS DONE NOTHING WRONG! "

The Pope is infallible that is true. But when has he exercised that infallibility to declare infallibly from the throne of Peter that the Church did nothing wrong with respect to all this nonsense? Link please?

9/29/2005 3:50:55 PM

FLASHBACK

Nothing to see here....

Vatican told bishops to cover up sex abuse
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1020400,00.html

Quote :

"The Vatican instructed Catholic bishops around the world to cover up cases of sexual abuse or risk being thrown out of the Church. The Observer has obtained a 40-year-old confidential document from the secret Vatican archive which lawyers are calling a 'blueprint for deception and concealment'. One British lawyer acting for Church child abuse victims has described it as 'explosive'. The 69-page Latin document bearing the seal of Pope John XXIII was sent to every bishop in the world. The instructions outline a policy of 'strictest' secrecy in dealing with allegations of sexual abuse and threatens those who speak out with excommunication. "

9/29/2005 4:16:41 PM

FLASHBACK

Nothing to see here either...

BBC: "Vatican 'protecting paedophile priests'"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2339749.stm

Quote :

"Victims of sexual abuse at the hands of US Roman Catholic priests have condemned the Vatican after it opposed American bishops' plans to deal with paedophile clerics. "

9/29/2005 4:20:04 PM

Quote :

"Wolfpack2K: The Pope is infallible that is true. But when has he exercised that infallibility to declare infallibly from the throne of Peter that the Church did nothing wrong with respect to all this nonsense? Link please?"

YOU SEE PEOPLE! IT'S ALL NONSENSE! ALL OF THIS MUMBO JUMBO ABOUT OUR WONDERFUL ROMAN PRIESTS MOLESTING CHILDREN AND THEN CARDINALS AND OTHERS IN THE "HOLY" ROMAN CHURCH COVERING IT UP....ALL NONSENSE. ALL OF IT. ALL BULLSHIT, I TELL YA!!

MR JOSHUA, IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY THEORY!


[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 4:28 PM. Reason : 2]

9/29/2005 4:25:43 PM

This is the only subject I really agree with salisburyboy. I won't go as far as to say they are partof the NWO or anything, but they certainly are majorly fucked up for trying to cover this shit up all the time. And it's really their own fault they have all these molestation accusations. If they'd actually punish the priests responsible they might start having a few less cases of it.

9/29/2005 4:46:19 PM

can i molest u salisburyboy?

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 4:49 PM. Reason : .]

9/29/2005 4:49:28 PM

Ah yes the Vatican did deny the recognitio to the American bishops first "plan" to deal with the sex abuse stuff. If you will recall correctly, the first plan involved making an allegation equivalent to a conviction, putting a priest out of his parish, out of his home, upon someone merely making an allegation. Have you ever read "The Crucible"? Good book.

Anyway, I am still waiting to see your link where the Pope spoke infallibly from the throne of Peter on this matter. Just type the link in so we can all see.

The fact that you are aligning with people who are avowedly anti-Christian betrays your true motives and the true motives behind all this nonsense. It is an effort to destroy the Church. Since it is impossible to destroy the Church, her opponents are at least trying to discredit her by making up lots of false allegations. This is not only the Catholic Church, but as we see from the fact that you and Kris are in teh same corner here, it is an assault against Christianity itself. Too bad you are falling for it, but as it please you. Just another thing for me to beat you down about.

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 5:42 PM. Reason : good book]

9/29/2005 5:39:57 PM

Sorry,Wolfpack, normally when it's you, me, and the dingbat, I take your side, but, dude, LITTLE KIDS ARE GETTING RAPED.

When Catholic priests do it, it gets more coverage than an individual would, yes. That's obvious, as are the reasons behind it. This scandal involves a lot of evidence suggesting a systematic effort to protect child molestors and, disturbingly often, to avoid at least moving them somewhere away from kids. Joe Bob the Protestant Child Rapist doesn't have a massive, ancient, and respected institution of any kind, let alone one whose purposes revolve around morality, hiding him from the po-po and giving him a vast supply of new victims.

And this "to the exclusion of all else" stuff is just bullshit. When has this scandal been the only thing in the news? You noticing a sharp decline in news reports involving other child molestors lately? I'm not.

OK, from a religious perspective, the church shouldn't turn in priests who confess these acts -- confession isn't worth much if it isn't confidential. But to try to prevent parents who learn what's going on from telling through payoffs and settlements is a completely different issue -- and it's happened before.

Vastly more inexcusable is delaying a moment in transferring priests known to be guilty to a monastery or some other place where they don't have anyone else to prey on.

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 8:12 PM. Reason : ]

9/29/2005 8:12:05 PM

Notice that I did not say bishops did everything right. For the sake of the guilty priest, who is suffering from an intense spiritual disorder as well as psychological one, it would certainly be better to transfer him to a monastery as you said. In fact I would say it is a sin not to do so - because by commanding the priest to stay in a parish where he would be around children, the bishop is putting the priest in the occasion of sin, which itself is sinful to do.

However I think the rush to judgment, that every priest accused must be guilty, and the ignorance of the fact that "crying victim" has become such an enormous cash cow, and the realization of the fact that people who are anti-Christian and would like to see Christianity itself done away with are jumping all over this... all those things together show me that something is not quite right here. Doesn't that make sense?

9/29/2005 9:31:05 PM

There's a much stronger anti-Catholic sentiment in this country than there is an anti-Christian one, and as someone whose people were routinely invaded and massacred by your boys on the way to or instead of the Holy Land, I can't say I'm entirely unsympathetic.

Point is, though, even if only a relatively small percentage of the accusations are in fact true, you're still looking at what has to be a cover-up to some degree -- either bishops knew what was happening and ignored it, or they ignored fairly substantial amounts of evidence, neither of which is exactly what you'd normally call anything short of "abominable."

If any bishop did anything that fucked up, it's worthy of quite a bit of press coverage. Again, you're held to a little bit different standard when you're part of an ancient institution that is respected by a large portion of Americans and which has as its central purpose the propogation of a moral and Christian life. I don't think that's unreasonable. We can't expect priests to be perfect, but we can expect them to be a little bit above the level of fucking child molestors. The same can be said to an even greater extent of bishops.

Yes, I suspect that there's a fair share of false accusations motivated by greed. But I can't see much evidence to suggest that all or even most fall into this category -- motive alone isn't enough to go on. Also, I don't see a whole lot in the way of priests being exonerated. Mostly what I'm coming across is either accusers being paid off with large sums, or the alleged offenders disappearing to some other area before serious legal moves take place. Innocent until proven guilty, yes, but I'm skeptical enough to suspect that at least a few innocent are, in fact, guilty.

9/30/2005 3:58:44 AM

Quote :

"Wolfpack2K The fact that you are aligning with people who are avowedly anti-Christian betrays your true motives and the true motives behind all this nonsense. It is an effort to destroy the Church. Since it is impossible to destroy the Church, her opponents are at least trying to discredit her by making up lots of false allegations. This is not only the Catholic Church, but as we see from the fact that you and Kris are in teh same corner here, it is an assault against Christianity itself. Too bad you are falling for it, but as it please you. Just another thing for me to beat you down about. "

1. The fact that I happen to be on the same side of this issue as people who may be anti-Christian says absolutely nothing about my motives. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHILD MOLESTATION AND RAPE HERE, GENIUS. 98% people of all practically all non-catholic faiths--including muslims, protestants, atheists, buddhists--ARE GOING TO BE ON MY SIDE. That doesn't mean I'm pro-buddhist or pro-islam, and it certainly doesn't mean I'm "anti-Christian."

What's your side in all of this W2K? That's right...defending these child molesters and those in the Roman Church who covered up this child rape and molestation.

2. Newsflash. Your precious Roman church is a FALSE church. It is not the "one and only", the "universal", "only true" church. The fact that the Roman Church's hierarchy has raped children for decades/centuries and covered it up ought to be an indication of the fact that it is a cult that is rotten to the core. That and countless other things, including praying TO dead people, worshipping Mary, murdering millions of people in the Inquisitions, selling indulgences for people to get out of hell, and on and on and on.

Roman catholicism is white magic witchcraft masquerading as Christianity. It is heavily influenced by Babylonian religion. That is documented. Thus, it is occult and is satanism. I'm exposing the satanic cult of catholicism for what it is. That's not to say that most catholics know this. 99.9% don't. They are decieved and caught up in a false religious system.

Protestantism has it's problems as well. It's denominations have retained many of the occult practices of the Catholic Church, including the occult holidays of "Christ-Mass" and Easter, the false practice of infant baptism, etc.

3. The fact that you try to brush off this sexual abuse in the Roman Church as "all nonsense" and just "lots of false allegations" speaks for itself. You are so brainwashed into Catholicism that you can't even see OBVIOUS problems in the Roman Church.

[Edited on September 30, 2005 at 8:41 AM. Reason : 2]

9/30/2005 8:38:50 AM

Quote :

"However I think the rush to judgment, that every priest accused must be guilty"

WE ARE NOT SAYING THIS, AND YOU KNOW THAT.

9/30/2005 8:46:15 AM

Franklin sex ring scandal

9/30/2005 10:05:05 PM

gross, just gross

10/1/2005 2:20:55 AM

Quote :

"WE ARE NOT SAYING THIS, AND YOU KNOW THAT."

Oh but you are. Salisburyboy posted something saying that the Vatican is part of a "cover up" because it denied recognitio to the US Bishops' first plan for dealing with the sex abuse stuff. What do you think that first plan was? It called for a priest to be suspended from ministry and thrown out of his house (priests live on church property) on the very first allegation. There are little things called "innocent until proven guilty" and "due process".

Quote :

"Your precious Roman church is a FALSE church. It is not the "one and only", the "universal", "only true" church."

"And so I say to you, you are Peter and upon this Rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell shall never prevail against it."

Quote :

"including praying TO dead people"

There is no such thing as a dead saint. It is a contradiction in terms. "Have you not read what was written to you by God? 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Quote :

"worshipping Mary"

LOL - I thought I already beat you down sufficiently about that before. Nobody worships Mary - we honor her because of her unique status as Mother of God. There is obviously a difference between honor and worship - we are called to "Worship God alone... honor thy father and mother."

Quote :

"murdering millions of people in the Inquisitions, selling indulgences for people to get out of hell, and on and on and on. "

Two errors. One, indulgences are not for people to get out of hell. There is no such thing as getting out of hell - hell is permanent. When you're there, you're there. Indulgences remit the temporal punishment due to sin, which is either paid on earth in suffering and good works or is paid for in Purgatory.

Two, these practices have long since been condemned by the Church. Holy things may not be sold - it is a mortal sin carrying excommunication reserved to the Pope.

10/1/2005 1:05:50 PM

Quote :

"However I think the rush to judgment, that every priest accused must be guilty."

This may be the ultimate in cynical chuzpah - they first shield them from criminal prosocution, and then they point out that they've never been convicted of anything. If they had been turned over to the police (like every other child molester) we might have been able to find out if they were guilty or not.

Child molesters that aren't priest get no such dispensation. They are considered the lowest of the lows, even in the prison system where they live in constant fear for their lives. In addition, with sex offender lists, etc., they are hounded where ever they go, for the rest of their lives. Most decent people are willing to go to these extremes to protect innocent children, putting second the perpretrator's, "intense spiritual disorder as well as psychological one".

Last of all, posting a news item does not necessarily constitue, "More hate filled anti-Catholic bullshit." The article was not just pullled out of thin air - it is a topical current event that outlines three decades of misconduct involving 60 priests, two Bishops, and God knows how many children. Of course it is telling that some would define anything that shows the Catholic Church in a bad light as "anti-Catholic" - they would rather blame the messenger than the perpetrator (see cognitive dissonance) - but it's the Church's own fault. It was that kind of thinking that got them into the mess in the first place - "Let's just hush it up, shift the perpetrator to another parish, and maybe it will all go away without making us look bad".

[Edited on October 1, 2005 at 9:48 PM. Reason : *~<]BO]

10/1/2005 9:41:01 PM