http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/26/1423248

Quote :

"Col. Janis Karpinski, the Former Head of Abu Ghraib, Admits She Broke the Geneva Conventions But Says the Blame "Goes All the Way to The Top” Wednesday, October 26th, 2005 Karpinski, the highest-ranking officer demoted in connection with the torture scandal, speaks out about what happened at the Abu Ghraib prison. She discusses: -How the military hid "ghost detainees" from the International Red Cross in violation of international law; -Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller calling for the Gitmoization of Abu Ghraib and for prisoners to be "treated like dogs"; -Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's secret memos on interrogation policies that hung on the prison’s walls; -The military’s use of private (and possibly Israeli) interrogators; -Her dealings with the International Red Cross; -Why she feels, as a female general, she has been scapegoated for a scandal that has left the military and political leadership unscathed; and -Calls for Donald Rumsfeld, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, Alberto Gonzalez and Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller to be held accountable for what happened. "

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/october2005/251005Karpinski.htm

Quote :

"Former Abu Ghraib General: Torture Is Continuing; Order Came From Very Top General says she was deliberately kept out of the loop and scapegoated to protect higher ups Steve watson, Paul Watson & Alex Jones | October 25 2005 The General commanding troops in Iraq whose career was ruined in the Abu Ghraib torture scandal, Janis Karpinski, appeared on the Alex Jones Show yesterday and made some amazing revelations. [...] Karpinski had previously admitted that rather than being an isolated incident under her command, the abuses were, "the result of conflicting orders and confused standards extending from the military commanders in Iraq all the way to the summit of civilian leadership in Washington.""

No big surprise.

10/27/2005 11:03:47 AM

at least you posted a link to democracy now. you're getting closer to real sources

10/27/2005 11:06:26 AM

At least we can all agree that torture is bad.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 11:15 AM. Reason : ed]

10/27/2005 11:12:34 AM

^i guarandamtee you someone in the soap box will tell you you're wrong

10/27/2005 11:14:18 AM

FLASHBACK:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/06/13/wguan13.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/06/13/ixworld.html

Quote :

"Interrogation abuses were "approved at highest levels" Telegraph - UK June 13, 2004 New evidence that the physical abuse of detainees in Iraq and at Guantanamo Bay was authorised at the top of the Bush administration will emerge in Washington this week, adding further to pressure on the White House. The Telegraph understands that four confidential Red Cross documents implicating senior Pentagon civilians in the Abu Ghraib scandal have been passed to an American television network, which is preparing to make them public shortly. According to lawyers familiar with the Red Cross reports, they will contradict previous testimony by senior Pentagon officials who have claimed that the abuse in the Abu Ghraib prison was an isolated incident. "There are some extremely damaging documents around, which link senior figures to the abuses," said Scott Horton, the former chairman of the New York Bar Association, who has been advising Pentagon lawyers unhappy at the administration's approach. "The biggest bombs in this case have yet to be dropped." A string of leaked government memos over the past few days has revealed that President George W Bush was advised by Justice Department officials and the White House lawyer, Alberto Gonzalez, that Geneva Conventions on torture did not apply to 'unlawful combatants', captured during the war on terror." Members of Congress are now demanding access to all White House memos on interrogation techniques, a request so far refused by the United States attorney-general, John Ashcroft. As the growing scandal threatens to undermine President Bush's re-election campaign, senior aides have acknowledged for the first time that the abuse of detainees can no longer be presented as the isolated acts of a handful of soldiers at the Abu Ghraib. "It's now clear to everyone that there was a debate in the administration about how far interrogators could go," said a legal adviser to the Pentagon. "And the answer they came up with was 'pretty far'. Now that it's in the open, the administration is having to change that answer somewhat." In the latest revelation, yesterday's Washington Post published leaked documents revealing that Gen Ricardo Sanchez, the senior US officer in Iraq, approved the use of dogs, temperature extremes, reversed sleep patterns and sensory deprivation for prisoners whenever senior officials at the Abu Ghraib jail wished. A memo dated October 9, 2003 on "Interrogation Rules of Engagement", which each military intelligence officer was obliged to sign, set out in detail the wide range of pressure tactics they could use -including stress positions and solitary confinement for more than 30 days."

But wait. White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Tuesday of the president's position on torture that "We do not condone torture, nor would he ever authorize the use of torture." Could he be lying?


[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 11:22 AM. Reason : 1]

10/27/2005 11:15:46 AM

FLASHBACK:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23373-2004Jun7.html

Quote :

"Memo Offered Justification for Use of Torture Justice Dept. Gave Advice in 2002 By Dana Priest and R. Jeffrey Smith Washington Post Staff Writers Tuesday, June 8, 2004; Page A01 In August 2002, the Justice Department advised the White House that torturing al Qaeda terrorists in captivity abroad "may be justified," and that international laws against torture "may be unconstitutional if applied to interrogations" conducted in President Bush's war on terrorism, according to a newly obtained memo. If a government employee were to torture a suspect in captivity, "he would be doing so in order to prevent further attacks on the United States by the Al Qaeda terrorist network," said the memo, from the Justice Department's office of legal counsel, written in response to a CIA request for legal guidance. It added that arguments centering on "necessity and self-defense could provide justifications that would eliminate any criminal liability" later."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38894-2004Jun13.html

Quote :

"Justice Dept. Memo Says Torture 'May Be Justified' By Dana Priest Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, June 13, 2004; 6:30 PM Today washingtonpost.com is posting a copy of the Aug. 1, 2002, memorandum (PDF) "Re: Standards of Conduct for Interrogation under 18 U.S.C. 2340-2340A," from the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel for Alberto R. Gonzales, counsel to President Bush. The memo was the focus of a recent article in The Washington Post. The memo was written at the request of the CIA. The CIA wanted authority to conduct more aggressive interrogations than were permitted prior to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The interrogations were of suspected al Qaeda members whom the CIA had apprehended outside the United States. The CIA asked the White House for legal guidance. The White House asked the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel for its legal opinion on the standards of conduct under the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhumane and Degrading Treatment or Punishment."

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 11:29 AM. Reason : 1]

10/27/2005 11:29:11 AM

Torture is necessary, kkthx.

10/27/2005 4:18:30 PM

This is why women should never be high-ranking officers


They don't have the balls to fall on their own sword for the good of the military

10/27/2005 4:21:33 PM

^^ you are so fucking stupid.

10/27/2005 5:24:10 PM

TORTURE!!!!!!!

see, if you say it really bold and all capitals it sounds more scary!

10/27/2005 5:32:09 PM

^^ you are such a fucking puss... and apparently not very keen

10/27/2005 5:51:19 PM

Quote :

"Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhumane and Degrading Treatment or Punishment."

I was not aware that the genva convention applied to non combatants, or to non signitory combatants who are not members of an army.

10/27/2005 5:53:58 PM

Quote :

"-Why she feels, as a female general, she has been scapegoated for a scandal that has left the military and political leadership unscathed; and "

She got demoted because she knowingly let it happen. She's right though that people above her should've been dealt with as well. Interestingly, Rumsfeld had offered up his resignation, but Bush decided not to take it...

Quote :

"I was not aware that the genva convention applied to non combatants, or to non signitory combatants who are not members of an army."

No, but I don't believe that it's generally accepted that torturing civilians is wrong as well. Besides, it's such an ineffective method of extracting information out of individuals.

10/27/2005 6:03:33 PM

read the 4th Geneva Conventions, and Protocol 1.

then you'll see how dumb your comment was. ^^

^^^ you're such a parrot.
http://www.brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=354504&page=2#7719579

10/27/2005 6:46:39 PM

so what does this mean for that England chick?

10/28/2005 2:09:12 AM

Quote :

"read the 4th Geneva Conventions, and Protocol 1."

yeah, and anyone who pays attention knows this and repeats the lie anyway to further his cause.

In fact, though the Third Geneva Convention defines a category of detainees called "prisoners of war" (POWs) and lays out specific protections for them,
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm
the Fourth Geneva Convention ("Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War") lays out separate protections for civilians, including so-called "unlawful combatants"
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/92.htm

Also, I wanted to point out some interesting notes from the fourth convention:

Article 83:
"The Detaining Power shall not set up places of internment in areas particularly exposed to the dangers of war."

Article 85:
"The Detaining Power is bound to take all necessary and possible measures to ensure that protected persons shall, from the outset of their internment, be accommodated in buildings or quarters which afford every possible safeguard as regards hygiene and health, and provide efficient protection against the rigours of the climate and the effects of the war. In no case shall permanent places of internment be situated in unhealthy areas or in districts the climate of which is injurious to the internees. In all cases where the district, in which a protected person is temporarily interned , is in an unhealthy area or has a climate which is harmful to his health, he shall be removed to a more suitable place of internment as rapidly as circumstances permit."

Article 89
"Daily food rations for internees shall be sufficient in quantity, quality and variety to keep internees in a good state of health and prevent the development of nutritional deficiencies. Account shall also be taken of the customary diet of the internees."

Article 93
"Internees shall enjoy complete latitude in the exercise of their religious duties, including attendance at the services of their faith, on condition that they comply with the disciplinary routine prescribed by the detaining authorities.

Ministers of religion who are interned shall be allowed to minister freely to the members of their community"

So, if you don't want to go by the Geneva conventions, you can try and get out of them. However don't go using them to justify this sick and inhumane treatment of prisoners. According to the conventions, your boys over there have broken almost every rule and, were this a more just world, every person implicated in these crimes would be tried and punished.

10/28/2005 8:45:12 AM

Quote :

"^^^ you're such a parrot."

You totally missed the point. As I said before, not very keen.

10/28/2005 1:48:19 PM

ha, you can't even prove why torture is necessary. and that's why you are so fucking stupid, because you cannot even defend your own lousy argument.

10/28/2005 4:03:15 PM

i'll tell you why it's necessary

because there's people out there that deserve that shit

the trouble is finding them and doing it to only them

10/28/2005 4:14:11 PM

the only way to do that is to allow them to be tried by a jury of their peers

I still wouldn't advocate torturing them, but you're right that we should only punish those who deserve it.

10/28/2005 4:31:45 PM

and what does torture accomplish, other than give you a feeling of self-satisfaction that you are better than them?

10/28/2005 7:21:43 PM

do we need anything else?

10/28/2005 8:56:34 PM

that movie Hostel looks craaaaaazy guys

10/29/2005 4:21:02 PM

http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20051121-08125600-bc-us-torture.xml

Quote :

"Report: Cheney advocated U.S. torture WASHINGTON, Nov. 21 (UPI) -- The U.S. practice of using torture on terror detainees was rooted in Vice President Dick Cheney's office, a former senior State Department official claims. Retired U.S. Army Col. Larry Wilkerson, who served as former Secretary of State Colin Powell's chief of staff, made the allegation to CNN, and said it was possible the practice was still going on. "There's no question in my mind where the philosophical guidance and the flexibility in order to do so originated -- in the vice president of the United States' office," he said. "His implementer in this case was (Defense Secretary) Donald Rumsfeld and the Defense Department." Cheney is lobbying against a bill in Congress that would outlaw "cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" of prisoners, and wants an exception for the CIA in cases that involve a detainee who may have knowledge of an imminent attack. Earlier this month, President George Bush flatly denied there was a security policy of torture, saying: "We do not torture.""

11/22/2005 8:26:31 AM

CNN's on it:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/20/torture/

Quote :

"Powell aide: Torture 'guidance' from VP Former staff chief says Cheney's 'flexibility' helped lead to abuse Sunday, November 20, 2005 WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A former top State Department official said Sunday that Vice President Dick Cheney provided the "philosophical guidance" and "flexibility" that led to the torture of detainees in U.S. facilities. Retired U.S. Army Col. Larry Wilkerson, who served as former Secretary of State Colin Powell's chief of staff, told CNN that the practice of torture may be continuing in U.S.-run facilities. "There's no question in my mind that we did. There's no question in my mind that we may be still doing it," Wilkerson said on CNN's "Late Edition." "There's no question in my mind where the philosophical guidance and the flexibility in order to do so originated -- in the vice president of the United States' office," he said. "His implementer in this case was [Defense Secretary] Donald Rumsfeld and the Defense Department." At another point in the interview, Wilkerson said "the vice president had to cover this in order for it to happen and in order for Secretary Rumsfeld to feel as though he had freedom of action."

11/22/2005 9:42:51 AM