It's a good thing the leak investigation didn't damage Bush's credibility with the American people.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9917012/

Quote :

"Bush’s popularity hits new low Poll: Majority of Americans question president’s integrity For the first time in his presidency a majority of Americans question the integrity of President Bush, and growing doubts about his leadership have left him with record negative ratings on the economy, Iraq and even the war on terrorism, a new Washington Post-ABC News poll shows. On almost every key measure of presidential character and performance, the survey found that Bush has never been less popular with the American people. Currently 39 percent approve of the job he is doing as president, while 60 percent disapprove of his performance in office -- the highest level of disapproval ever recorded for Bush in Post-ABC polls. Virtually the only possible bright spot for Bush in the survey was generally favorable, if not quite enthusiastic, early reaction to his latest Supreme Court nominee, Samuel A. Alito. Half of Americans say Alito should be confirmed by the Senate, and less than a third view him as too conservative, the poll found. Overall, the survey underscores how several pillars of Bush's presidency have begun to crumble under the combined weight of events and White House mistakes. Bush's approval ratings have been in decline for months, but on issues of personal trust, honesty and values, Bush has suffered some of his most notable declines. Moreover, Bush has always retained majority support on his handling of the U.S. campaign against terrorism -- until now, when 51 percent have registered disapproval. The CIA leak case has apparently contributed to a withering decline in how Americans view Bush personally. The survey found that 40 percent now view him as honest and trustworthy -- a 13 percentage point drop in the past 18 months. Nearly 6 in 10 -- 58 percent -- said they have doubts about Bush's honesty, the first time in his presidency that more than half the country has questioned his personal integrity. The indictment Friday of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff, in the CIA leak case added to the burden of an administration already reeling from a failed Supreme Court nomination, public dissatisfaction with the economy and continued bloodshed in Iraq. According to the survey, 52 percent say the charges against Libby signal the presence of deeper ethical wrongdoing in the administration. Half believe White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove, the president's top political hand, also did something wrong in the case -- about 6 in 10 say Rove should resign his position. Nation off course? Beyond the leak case, Americans give the administration low ratings on ethics, according to the survey, with 67 percent rating the administration negatively on handling ethical matters, while just 32 percent give the administration positive marks. Four in 10 -- 43 percent -- say the level of ethics and honesty in the federal government has fallen during Bush's presidency, while 17 percent say it has risen. Faced with its cascade of recent setbacks, the White House is hoping the latest court nomination can rally disaffected conservatives and score the president a victory akin to the one he enjoyed in the nomination of Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. Alito begins the confirmation process with the support of 49 percent of the public, while 29 percent say he should not be confirmed, the poll found. One in 5 Americans -- 22 percent -- did not yet know enough about him to make a judgment. The dissatisfaction with Bush flows in part out of broad concerns about the overall direction of the country. Nearly 7 in 10 -- 68 percent -- believe the country is seriously off course, while only 30 percent are optimistic, the lowest level in more than nine years. Only 3 in 10 express high levels of confidence in Bush, while half say they have little or no confidence in this administration. Just 35 percent of those surveyed rated the economy as either excellent or good, with 65 percent describing it as not so good or poor. Although the government reported last week that gross domestic product rose 3.8 percent in the last quarter, despite the effects of Hurricane Katrina, 29 percent of those surveyed said they regard the economy as poor, the highest recorded during Bush's presidency. Attitudes toward Bush are sharply polarized by party, as they have been throughout his presidency. Almost 8 in 10 -- 78 percent -- of Republicans support the president, while just 11 percent of Democrats rate him positively. Republicans long have been the key to Bush's overall strength, but Bush has suffered some defections since the beginning of the year, when 91 percent approved of the way he was handling his job. Among independents, Bush's approval has plummeted since the beginning of the year. In the latest poll, 33 percent of independents approved of his performance, while 66 disapproved. In January, independents were evenly divided, with 49 percent approving and an equal percentage disapproving. The intensity of Bush's support has changed since his reelection a year ago, with opponents deepening their hostility toward the administration. In the latest survey, 47 percent said they strongly disapprove of the way he was performing in office, compared with 35 percent who expressed strong disapproval in January. At the same time, the percentage who say they strongly approve of his performance has fallen from 33 percent last January to 20 percent today. Dissatisfaction with Iraq Iraq remains a significant drag on Bush's presidency, with dissatisfaction over the situation there continuing to grow and with suspicion rising over whether administration officials misled the country in the run-up to the invasion more than two years ago. Nearly two-thirds disapprove of the way Bush is handling the situation there, while barely a third approve, a new low. Six in 10 now believe the United States was wrong to invade Iraq, a seven-point increase in just over two months, with almost half the country saying they strongly believe it was wrong. About 3 in 4 -- 73 percent -- say there have been an unacceptable level of casualties in Iraq. More than half -- 52 percent -- say the war with Iraq has not contributed to the long-term security of the United States. The same percentage -- 52 percent -- say the United States should keep its military forces in Iraq until civil order is restored, and only about 1 in 5 -- 18 percent -- say the U.S. should withdraw its forces immediately. In the week after U.S. deaths in Iraq passed the 2,000 mark, a majority of those surveyed -- 55 percent -- said the U.S. is not making significant progress toward stabilizing the country. The war has taken a toll on the administration's credibility: A clear majority -- 55 percent -- now says the administration deliberately misled the country in making its case for war with Iraq -- a conflict that an even larger majority say is not worth the cost. The president's handling of terrorism was widely regarded among strategists as the key to his winning a second term last year. But questions about Bush's effectiveness on other fronts have also depreciated this asset. His 48 percent approval now compares with 61 percent approval on this issue at the time of his second inauguration, and from a 2004 high of 66 percent. Bush also set new lows in the latest Post-ABC News poll for his management of the economy, where disapproval topped 60 percent for the first time in his presidency. And 6 in 10 are critical of the way Bush is dealing with health care -- a double-digit increase since March. On gasoline prices, Bush's numbers have increased slightly over the past two months but still remain highly negative, with just 26 percent rating him positively. Widening gulf The survey suggests a rapidly widening gulf between Bush and the American people. Two in 3 say Bush does not understand the problems of people like them, a 10 percentage point increase since January. Nearly 6 in 10 -- 58 percent -- doubt Bush shares their values, while 40 percent say he does, another new low for this president. For the first time since he took office, fewer than half -- 47 percent -- said Bush is a strong leader, and Americans divided equally over whether Bush can be trusted in a crisis. Told of the poll results, Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman said Bush will rally support through such issues as education reform, changes to the tax code, and a new energy strategy to show the public that he "will continue to push for changes in our government to serve the American people." A total of 1,202 randomly selected adults were interviewed Oct 30-Nov. 2 for this survey. Margin of sampling error for the overall results is plus or minus three percentage points. Assistant polling director Claudia Deane contributed to this report. © 2005 The Washington Post Company"

11/4/2005 7:44:17 PM

Quote :

"Lawmaker says Italy warned U.S. that Iraq uranium documents were fake By Ariel David The Associated Press ROME – Italian secret services warned the United States months before it invaded Iraq that a dossier about a purported Saddam Hussein effort to buy uranium in Africa was fake, a lawmaker said today after a briefing by the nation's intelligence chief."

http://tinyurl.com/dzmxk

11/4/2005 8:36:01 PM

pray to God he dont drop that yellow cake.

11/4/2005 8:58:43 PM

I like how few Republicans they sampled for this "poll." Skewing polls to fit a warped view of reality is not going to win back the hearts and minds of the growing number of people who distrust the media.

11/4/2005 11:55:08 PM

^ The number may be exaggerated, but YOU'RE the one warping reality if you can't see that at the least, the people who surround Bush are shady, and tricked you in to supporting a war.

11/4/2005 11:56:45 PM

Nobody was tricked into anything. The Bush Administration and a bunch of Democrats all got the same intelligence, but I guess some people forget the huge bipartisan support that the war had. How many probes and investigations have there been that have looked at why we went to war and how many of them said that the Bush Administration used coersion or lied to lead us into Iraq? Oh that's right...NONE OF THEM.

It's your warped reality by going back to the same old tired playbook thinking that this time maybe the result won't blow up in your face is what keeps me laughing at the left.

11/5/2005 12:02:39 AM

^ People sure feel tricked, otherwise Bush's poll numbers wouldn't be plummeting like they are.

Not to mention what the whole thing with Libby has show how certain elements of this administration conduct business.

The 9/11 Probe investigation also wasn't too favorable to Bush either (no link between Iraq/Al-Qaeda), as well as Colin Powell smack-talking the administration (his aides too). It's only blind ignorance that makes people whole-heartedly support the Bush admin like you do.

[Edited on November 5, 2005 at 12:10 AM. Reason : 2]

11/5/2005 12:08:03 AM

Quote :

"Wlfpk4Life: The Bush Administration and a bunch of Democrats all got the same intelligence, but I guess some people forget the huge bipartisan support that the war had."

Forgot?

Or, didn't support it then regardless of the bipartisan support it received and continue not to support it now?

Idiot.

Quote :

"Wlfpk4Life:How many probes and investigations have there been that have looked at why we went to war and how many of them said that the Bush Administration used coersion or lied to lead us into Iraq? Oh that's right...NONE OF THEM."

Oh, you're so smart.

How many probes and investigations have there been that have been completed and have therefore released the results of their investigation that looked at why we went to war and how many of them said that the Bush Administration used coercion or lied to lead us into Iraq?

Oh that's right...NONE OF THEM.

[Edited on November 5, 2005 at 12:14 AM. Reason : ...]

11/5/2005 12:14:12 AM

The only people that are tricked are the ones who are buying into these bullshit polls.

52 percent of those sampled by the Washington Post leaned Democrat while only 41 percent leaned Republican.

Yeah, considering that the Republicans control the White House, the US Senate and House, and a majority of the state legislatures and governorships that poll is sure based in reality.

It's funny that you liberals invent your own lies and then expect people to buy your bullshit as if it's the gospel.

11/5/2005 12:15:56 AM

well.. don't you all know he made Hurricane Katrina???

11/5/2005 12:17:38 AM

Quote :

"Or, didn't support it then regardless of the bipartisan support it received and continue not to support it now?"

For the intelligence challenged out there, I don't give a shit what some kook extremist thinks, it obviously had no bearing on how a majority of Democrats voted when they voted to support the war. Idiot.

Quote :

"How many probes and investigations have there been that have been completed and have therefore released the results of their investigation that looked at why we went to war and how many of them said that the Bush Administration used coercion or lied to lead us into Iraq? Oh that's right...NONE OF THEM."

I'm sure that you'd give the same leeway to Libby and Rove with regards to the sham of a witchhunt known as the supposed CIA leak case.

Besides, you're either living under a rock, retarded, or just a simple liar. Here's one report that didn't find any wrongdoing with regards to the White House and the claims of lies and deceit on their part...it's called the Silberman-Robb report. I suggest that you stop living a lie and take advantage of the many facts that are widely available.

[Edited on November 5, 2005 at 12:23 AM. Reason : ...]

11/5/2005 12:22:59 AM

Quote :

"It's funny that you liberals invent your own lies and then expect people to buy your bullshit as if it's the gospel. "

You are retarded. All the polls from all the polling organizations show Bush's approval rating plummeting. You are the only one inventing your own reality, and to a disturbing degree.

11/5/2005 12:28:57 AM

Hahahaha so a poll that is skewed heavily in favor of Democrats which intentionally drives down Bush's numbers makes me the retard? Evidently you picked a bad week to stop drinking bong water.

11/5/2005 12:31:16 AM

^ Yeah, you're the retard. No poll is ever going to be 100% reflective of a group (unless it samples EVERYONE in that group). But, ALL the different polls show the general trend of Bush's dropping approval rating... do you understand what that means? Barring some freak numerical phenomenon, that means his approval rating is actually dropping. That is what you appear to be disputing, and that is what makes you retarded (actually, your post history shows this too).

11/5/2005 12:36:27 AM

Well, at least you live up to your name, moron.

Your defense of the Post's poll is weak. Another poll that came out this week, the ABC poll, only about a 1/4th of their polling data came from Republicans while the number of independents and Democrats were significantly greater. I think it's beyond amusing that you're trying to prevent an obviously biased and skewed poll as being fact. If you think that a poll that breaks down 52 percent Democrat to 41 percent Republican is close to 100 percent reflective of the current American opinion then you are, as I said, living in your own fantasy world.

11/5/2005 12:42:09 AM

hmm....Silberman-Robb...

Quote :

"not authorized to investigate how policymakers used the intelligence assessments they received from the Intelligence Community"

interesting...

Quote :

"intelligence analysts worked in an environment that did not encourage skepticism about the conventional wisdom"

curious...

Quote :

"there is no doubt that analysts operated in an environment shaped by intense policymaker interest in Iraq. Moreover, that analysis was shaped—and distorted"

not seeing a strong foundation here.

11/5/2005 12:56:12 AM

I never argued that this poll wasn't biased or skewed (I think it's ridiculous to think that more than 50% of Americans actually question Bush's integrity--Americans aren't that smart), and I even said the opposite.

My first phrase posted in this thread was "The number may be exaggerated...". It doesn't change the FACT that Bush's approval rating is at the lowest point of his career (and the lowest for any president in a while), and has been dropping for the past few weeks. It'll probably come back up in not too long, because it can only go so low before becoming ridiculous, kind of the opposite of "what goes up, must come down."

11/5/2005 12:56:58 AM

^^^

How about this one, from 10/27/05?

Quote :

"In this week’s FOX News poll, 41 percent of Americans approve and 51 percent disapprove of Bush’s job performance. Moreover, when given the opportunity for a 2004 presidential vote “do over,” Bush receives less support now than he did on Election Day."

(http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,173712,00.html)

Oh wait -- now you're going to tell me that FOX News's polling has a liberal bias! Come on, bring it on!

[Edited on November 5, 2005 at 1:01 AM. Reason : foo]

11/5/2005 1:01:00 AM

Also contained in the Silberman-Robb report that was conveniently left out:

"Many observers of the Intelligence Community have expressed concern that Intelligence Community judgments concerning Iraq's purported WMD programs may have been warped by inappropriate political pressure... The Commission has found no evidence of 'politicization' of the Intelligence Community's assessments concerning Iraq's reported WMD programs. No analytical judgments were changed in response to political pressure to reach a particular conclusion." -- Intelligence Capabilities Commission Report, pages 187-188.

Smoker4, got any other strawmen dangling around? The Fox poll may be right, but to pass off the Washington Post's poll as unbiased or even legitimate is absurd.

[Edited on November 5, 2005 at 1:09 AM. Reason : ]

11/5/2005 1:08:53 AM

^

Except that your response to moron was that he was stupid for claiming that "ALL the polls show the general trend of his approval ratings dropping."

Now, I can buy that an individual poll is biased. I would even go so far as to say that polls are just fads anyway and don't matter so much.

But statistically speaking, what moron said is very true -- the public's opinion of President Bush is dropping quite dramatically. Now, it may rise dramatically tomorrow. But it is currently low.

11/5/2005 1:11:14 AM

Smoker, I never criticized him for stating all polls, I was only referring to the Washington Post's poll.

11/5/2005 1:16:24 AM

^

Well, fine then -- you and moron are having a very asymmetric conversation, since he is very obviously talking about all the polls, so I took your latest reference to the Post poll and the ABC News poll to mean they were representative samples of all those "bullshit polls" out there.

But nonetheless, I find it kind of hard to believe that FOX News comes up with basically the same results as the polls cited here, yet these are particularly "biased." It may very well be true that the Post poll was 52% democrat and 41% Republican, but as long as the sample was randomly selected, it doesn't matter -- that's what standard deviations are for.

The poll is only "skewed" if the polling agency _specifically_ sought out Democrats in their sample; otherwise, the standard deviation accounts for the bias in the sample. More so, I would be willing to bet that the polling agency normalizes the results to fit a bell curve of political affiliation anyway; in which case your point about number of Democrats versus Republicans in the sample is altogether moot.

You'll notice that even the Republican party doesn't believe the bias theory because "Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman said Bush will rally support ..." -- obviously Mr. Mehlman himself believes that Bush really is behind in the public opinion, and he needs to rally support.

I personally do not think these polls are wrong; but I do think public opinion is very fluid. Polls don't reflect any real decision-making by the electorate; and dissatisfaction with Bush doesn't mean satisfaction with a Democratic alternative on election day.

11/5/2005 1:47:18 AM

The samples used in the Post's poll and the ABC news poll are not representative of this country and given their sampling data I would conclude that they were pretty much worthless and/or biased towards a given result. Other polls show Bush's approval rating in the low 40s. But to think that the media today isn't agenda driven or above the fray of politics is a naive but romantic view at best and in reality simply just not true.

Not that the polls should matter because public opinion can change very quickly and it isn't like Bush has to run for re-election. The '06 election is a year away.

11/5/2005 8:31:13 AM

yeah really guys

we all know this president doesn't need the consent of the governed

11/5/2005 9:20:35 PM

^ Last time I checked they were called elections.

11/5/2005 10:42:53 PM

^ So Bush shouldn't have won in 2000?

11/5/2005 10:50:29 PM

The last time I checked Bush won in 2000.

11/5/2005 10:51:51 PM

http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm

Not the popular vote. Last time I checked (which was just now), more people than the electoral college live in the US.

11/5/2005 10:55:13 PM

Who cares? The electoral college is what determines the winner, sore loser. Gore got 49 percent of the vote, same as Bush so if Gore would have won Florida he wouldn't have had the consent of the governed, according to your standard of who governs.

11/5/2005 11:00:58 PM

I wish we could get a recall vote, the same way Gray Davis was recalled in CA.

11/6/2005 1:02:24 AM

Quote :

"Who cares? The electoral college is what determines the winner, sore loser. Gore got 49 percent of the vote, same as Bush so if Gore would have won Florida he wouldn't have had the consent of the governed, according to your standard of who governs. "

Haha, are you retarded (wait, deja vu?)?

Snewf says "we all know this president doesn't need the consent of the governed"

You say "Last time I checked they were called elections."

The implication there is that Bush, since he was elected, has the consent of the governed (us, the people). But, the reality is that Bush didn't really have the consent of all the people that voted (he only not had it by a tiny, tiny amount, but still) in the 2000 election, narrowly had it in the 2004 election, and pretty much doesn't have it now. It IS the electoral college that elects the president, but you bringing that up would seem to nullify your previous post, because the idea behind the two things you said are at odds with each other.

It's people like you that make all the Republicans look like idiots.

11/6/2005 1:08:09 AM

Yet again you live up to your user name, moron.

The polls do not matter. The consent of the governed is determined by the ballot box. Bush won in 2000 and won by a what, 6-7 million margin in 2004. That is the consent of the governed in our political system, duh. Snewf was making a smartass comment based on the latest polling data which means dick. Opinion polls do not give consent, genius, elections do.

11/6/2005 8:42:00 AM

Quote :

"Bush won in 2000 and won by a what, 6-7 million margin in 2004. "

There are only 500-something electoral votes, a 6-7 million margin is impossible.

Bush lost the popular vote in 2000, and won by about 3 million in 2004. So in 2000, you could say he didn't have the consent of the governed from 2000 to 2004 (since polls are irrelevant), right?

11/6/2005 3:11:05 PM

Bush won so therefore he had the consent of the governed. Opinion polls do not matter. The ballot box does. This is basic stuff that even a 3rd grader can understand, why can't you?

11/6/2005 3:18:27 PM

Wait... so the popular vote is an opinion poll now?

11/6/2005 3:28:12 PM

Do you really need an explanation of how our election process works?

11/6/2005 3:31:23 PM

Every elected official in Washington seems to think that opinion polls matter.

There must be something you know that they don't.

11/6/2005 3:46:54 PM

Quote :

"Snewf was making a smartass comment based on the latest polling data which means dick. "

No I wasn't.

I was making a smartass comment based on the 2000 election fiasco.

11/6/2005 4:42:40 PM

^^^ Wow, you are dumb.

11/6/2005 5:03:26 PM

bleh, monarchies are so much easier than this shit.

11/6/2005 5:39:08 PM