i think its outragous that one loss miami leapfrogs unbeaten alabama in the ap poll. no matter what alabama does this season they have no hope. they play lsu next week and will probobly lose but if they win and somehow beat auburn and georgia to win out the season they will have played the hardest schedule of anybody and finish 3rd at the most (possibly 4th in ap) college football is outragous

last year auburn had the most impressive season and finished 3rd. utah never lost and barely made bcs(i know they didnt play anybody but still)

11/6/2005 11:58:43 PM

what's crazy is the bias towards Notre Dame

11/7/2005 12:00:34 AM

bama will lose at least once

11/7/2005 12:01:40 AM

Quote :

"what's crazy is the bias towards Notre Dame"

Did you even watch the fucking USC/ND game?

11/7/2005 12:03:46 AM

^ yea and also clearly the polls aren't all that biased considering somehow ND beating UT by 20 isn't good enough to keep Penn State from jumping over them for some unknown reason...

11/7/2005 12:04:27 AM

i don't understand why FSU's lost to us dropped them from 9th to 17th. i mean i know we're unranked, but it's not like they got blown out. i think they should have dropped to around 12th or 13th, but definitely nowhere past 15th.

11/7/2005 12:05:54 AM

Miami should be ranked higher than Bama this week. Bama beat Miss. St. with NO offense. Miami reeeeaally took it to Va. Tech every way possible. Miami showed themselves to be a better team than Bama this week.

If Bama beats LSU, they leapfrog Miami back even if the Canes win.

And I'm a Tide supporter. It's just the reality this week.

11/7/2005 12:06:07 AM

VT got their fucking ass whipped on the biggest of hype spotlights

11/7/2005 12:07:04 AM

why is nd ahead of vtech and uga? thats complete bullshit....

11/7/2005 12:18:15 AM

^^^if thats the case why not just wait for bama to lose before you drop them anyway? bama doesnt need offense. they won 17-0 thats not convincing?

"they took it to vt and showed they were the better team this week"

so does that just omit records and we go by what happend this week alone. if thats the case where is ncstate in the poll? because they manhandled fsu and showed to be better than them this week. and dont say "o but they have 4 lossses" because my point is where do you draw the line?

thats miamis only impressive win and bama has an impressive win 31-3 over flrorida (but most importantly no losses which is key)

[Edited on November 7, 2005 at 12:23 AM. Reason : ^^^]

11/7/2005 12:23:14 AM

manhandled?

motherfucker i was nervous down to the very kneel to end the game

11/7/2005 12:27:05 AM

I say screw the BCS rankings and have a 2 week playoff or somethin (though I'm sure that will have just as much controversy)

11/7/2005 12:29:02 AM

I like the AP poll.

Unlike the old coaches poll, teams have a better chance of leapfrogging than the old fogeys who keep the teams that win on top. Sometimes, there are teams that have a loss or two that are legitimately better than the other team, based on the record. The AP usually takes care of that.

The way Miami beat up on VT, and the way Alabama is struggling yet winning, I could easily see Miami leapfrogging them in the polls.

ND has been VERY IMPRESSIVE. They arguably have one of the --if not the-- most difficult schedules in Division I football, and they're not just squeaking by, but they're usually winning considerably.

My Personal Top 5 Poll:

1. USC
2. Texas
3. Miami
4. Penn State
5. Notre Dame

11/7/2005 12:30:13 AM

I've said for a long time that the AP is a shitty poll and should've been kicked out of the BCS a long time ago.

11/7/2005 12:31:52 AM

record does not correlate with quality of play. VT is a very good team and they got whipped. Have to give props for that

11/7/2005 12:33:25 AM

^^well manhandled in that guys eyes since "defense doesnt count" and fsu blocked to points to make it interesting

^^^
so what does alabama have to do to be better than teams that lose without losing? win by 30? 40? they havnt lost and they even beat florida 31-3 which i cant stress enough.
they won 17-0 but they struglled because they didnt score an offensive td. tahts pretty much saying defensive tds dont count. if texas was out of the picture right now then miami would be in the championship game over alabama because of this.

^again, if record doesnt count where is ncstate?...record counts.

miami beat vt convincingly so the fsu game can just be disregarded

11/7/2005 12:42:51 AM

Quote :

"^again, if record doesnt count where is ncstate?...record counts."

jesus, you're a big boy now. Surely you can make an argument without using logical fallacy- http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/straw.htm. My comment wasn't about NCSU, it was about alabama relative to miami.

In case your pea brain can't comprehend it, let me spell it out - it is mathematically impossible for an imprecise and incomplete metric such as record to correctly order 25 teams (if you are indeed a freshman, perhaps you should take a stats class and learn about statistically valid sample sizes). Thus, you have to use supplementary data to make a more accurate ranking. Some people (meaning anyone who's not a complete fucking retard) think that other things such as strength of opponents should be considered when ranking teams, and golly, Miami just happens to have beaten stronger opponents than Alabama.

Furthermore, believe it or not, people who have been covering the sport for years develop a pretty good sense for what good football looks like. Their assessments of good football will beat a ranking based purely on record any day of the week.


[Edited on November 7, 2005 at 1:10 AM. Reason : l;']

11/7/2005 12:58:09 AM

^ Well put.

The SEC has been a joke this year. The "solid" teams have all been very inconsistent. Alabama beat a Florida team that's still growing and is the worst of the big 3 in Florida.

Pollsters are convinced that Alabama can't score to save their lives. They find Alabama to be a "one-sided" football team that struggles to score. Because the team is unable to be dominant on both sides of the ball, they're being brought down in favor of a team that can prove to play on high levels on both sides of the ball. I don't see what's so difficult to understand.

11/7/2005 1:04:50 AM

super dude

11/7/2005 1:08:52 AM

other than vt maimi has only beaten colorado who isnt that impressive anyway

clemson
temple
south flroida
duke
unc

miamis other "much more impressive" wins

alabama beat flrorida who they have ranked almost as high as vt 31-3 which is nearly just impressive of a win so were basically just completly ignoring the fact that they lost (i thouht winning was the most important thing?) to fsu and ranking them higher because they beat colorado. this is so absurd that even if miami didnt play fsu at all i would still have a small case.

where do you draw the line? waht counts more wins or losses? if play the top 10 as my schedule go 5-5 where do i stand?

and i cant beleive how people can just dismiss bama just because they dont score alot of points ON OFFENSE. that is just crazy to me a team can win 17-0 and it be viewed unanymously as a horrible outing

11/7/2005 1:20:11 AM

if a team never scores much ON OFFENSE but never loses are they not a great team? so again, where do you draw the line. how many offensive poitns do you have to score to be taken seriously. they seem to be doing enough to win.

11/7/2005 1:22:54 AM

America's #1 teams can only be teams that put the fans in the stands

/thread

11/7/2005 1:26:26 AM

I'm certainly not dismissing Alabama. I don't know that you can rank a team No. 4 in the nation and be dismissing them. I'm just saying Miami was the better team this week than Bama. Sure the Tide score two touchdowns on defense and won 17-0. But it was against Mississippi State.

No doubt that the Tide are a great team. They did beat Florida 31-3. They also beat a down Tennessee team 6-3. That's not so impressive.

I'm an Alabama fan. My grandfather went there -- played baseball there. I'm rooting for Alabama.

You keep saying how the 17-0 win was impressive. Well wasn't Miami's 27-7 win over Va. Tech MORE impressive?

After watching this week's games, Miami looked like the better team up to this point. Bama looked good defensively against an unranked, pretty horrible Miss. St. team. Miami dismantled the No.3 team in the country in every facet of the game.

I don't know that you can look at that and say Alabama's win was more impressive.

11/7/2005 1:46:22 AM

Quote :

"Miami was the better team this week than Bama. Sure the Tide score two touchdowns on defense and won 17-0. But it was against Mississippi State."

you make sense but you are forgetting the fact that miami has already lost. after reading your post i would think miami was undefeated if i didnt know any better.

where do you draw the line with your "this week" logic?

if a 1 loss team with a more impressive win is better than an undefeated team then a 2 loss team with an impressive win is better than a 1 loss and a 3 loss team with a more impressive win is better than a 2 loss team where does it end? why isnt ncstate ahead of northwestern? northwestern only beat iowa by 1 and ncstate beat #9 team in the nation on the road but has an extra loss (i dont think this stuff im just using your logic further) WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE?

ncstates not even getting a vote off an impresive win when even iowa is getting a vote with 4 losses coming off a loss as well as a shitload of 3 loss teams. even unc who beat bc but has one more loss is behind bc. (if you beat a team youre obviously more impressive that week)

i understand your logic and probobly even agree with it but i dont see a consistency through the rest of the poll with your logic. inconsistency=bullshit

11/7/2005 2:05:04 AM

^Jesus fucking christ. Why does NCSU even let stupid people like this into the university.

Quote :

"i understand your logic and probobly even agree with it but i dont see a consistency through the rest of the poll with your logic. inconsistency=bullshit"

The logic that the sensible people (i.e not you) in this thread are using is the qualitative assessment of which is the better football team based on accumulated football knowledge. That's what the AP people are using as well. That's what they are using in the coaches poll. THE CONSISTENCY THROUGHOUT THE POLL IS PEOPLE'S OWN JUDGEMENT OF WHAT A GOOD FOOTBALL TEAM IS.

The fact that what they think makes a good team (cumulative wisdom) isn't consistent with what you think makes a good team (record) doesnt matter one iota because you are apparently a moron. Here is an analogy even you can understand: all the freshman in meteorology might not look consistently the same, but they no doubt consistently are idiots.

Alas, it would be convenient to just show your picture when referring to a dumb, frosh meteorology student. Likewise, it would be convenient to point to record only in order to rank teams. As I said before, both cannot be done for reasons that are obvious to anyone who isnt a complete retard.

11/7/2005 3:53:58 AM

uhhhhh before yall say who is gonna remain unbeaten you cant really know who the first and second place people are gonna be

11/7/2005 3:57:13 AM

whats up with going into somebodys profile to fuel your post?

i never said look at record only but you said if a team looks better that week then they should be on top. unc beat boston college with similar schedules and one extra loss so how can say they arent better right now. miami didnt even beat alabama and youre saying they are better. i know they think miami is better thats why they put them there but to downplay a team simply because they dont score x number of points or they won by x number of points is complete bogus. human polls should not count plain and simple. we all know human judgement if flawed

its always easy to defend the system

11/7/2005 4:31:32 AM

haha you know what would be better than living in the matrix?

if you could like control everyones lives by what you post on tdub

11/7/2005 5:20:48 AM

Quote :

"miami didnt even beat alabama and youre saying they are better"

well bama didnt beat miami and you're saying that they are the better team.

even if they did, that does not mean that they are the better team. they might be the better team that day, or get lucky, or whatever you want to call it. a team could win on a given day, but lose that very same game 99/100 times. the ranking in the poll reflects what would happen the other 99 times.

all i see from you that matters is # of wins. so your telling me if a team along the lines of southern miss were to have all of their bye's at the end of the year and were undefeated. so in week 12 they were 12-0, and USC, from this year, was 10-0 or even 9-1. then the USM team would be the better team?

i dont know if your trying to be a troll, or if your just that dense. but its really not this hard to understand.

[Edited on November 7, 2005 at 7:32 AM. Reason : ]

11/7/2005 7:28:17 AM

why do people still consider the AP poll relevent...
just another instance of journalists trying to create the news rather than just report the news...

11/7/2005 7:30:49 AM

that quote you took is completly out of context. if you read around that i was using his logic to explain why unc should get more votes than bc.

whose to say vt wouldnt of beat miami 99 other times. if rankings are based on who would of won if they played 99 other times instead of who actually won then thats even bigger bs. saying a team would lose 99 out of 100 if they played 99 more is complete bull. nobody knows what would happen. thats why we play games. the only thing you know for sure is who won on the field.

11/7/2005 7:36:13 AM

well, y do you think VT only dropped to 8 when they got stomped? its not like that game was anything near close. Because overall, VT is a good, balanced team that may not win that game against miami 99/100 times, but would play a shit load better than they did.

11/7/2005 9:03:40 AM

Christ...Miami has a TWO point lead on Bama for the third rank. That's practically tied -- c'mon.

It's not like Bama dropped three places here, they dropped into a virtual tie with a team that absoluting dominated a far better opponent than the one the Tide beat rather pedestrianly.

11/7/2005 9:19:25 AM

well after bama beats lsu this sat. they will jump miami. bama has the 2nd toughest (possible toughest if you count seccg) remaining out of the unbeaten 3 and miami. that being said it will be interesting to see how the bcs ranks them this afternoon at 2.

11/7/2005 9:43:30 AM

Exactly. I hope Bama DOES beat LSU. Cuz they will jump up to No. 3 if they do. I bet Bama is still No. 3 in the BCS .

11/7/2005 9:50:14 AM

Quote :

"Pollsters are convinced that Alabama can't score to save their lives. They find Alabama to be a "one-sided" football team that struggles to score. Because the team is unable to be dominant on both sides of the ball, they're being brought down in favor of a team that can prove to play on high levels on both sides of the ball. I don't see what's so difficult to understand."

Gee, that sounds an awful lot like a description of the 2002 nat'l championship Buckeyes

and I'm not a fan of either 'Bama or OSU

11/7/2005 9:53:50 AM

I think the polls do a pretty good job. However, they do get logged up from time to time with schedule toughness, point margins, and undefeated teams crying for a bcs positions etc. I still want some kind of playoff system, to replace the whole "off month" of december. But the possibility of that happening is slim b/c bowls bring money. and everyone wants money in the end.

Maybe a top conference team playoff system will solve the problem

11/7/2005 10:08:40 AM

Alabama's definitely gonna lose to LSU.

11/7/2005 10:38:01 AM

care to wager on that ?

11/7/2005 10:59:24 AM

didnt miami not have their starting qb in the start of the season when they lost a game?

11/7/2005 12:08:24 PM

didnt miami not have their starting qb in the start of the season when they lost a game?

11/7/2005 12:13:08 PM

^and^^

Miam named Kyle Wright the starter in the spring, same guy all year long

11/7/2005 12:28:11 PM

And to think Miami trounced VT without Moss and Hester (played, but didn't play whole game due to injuries)

11/7/2005 12:32:12 PM

FLORIDA STATE IS OVERRATED. VIRGINIA JUST GOT TO THEM BEFORE WE DID. QUIT THINKING THAT FSU IS SOOOOOOOOOOO GOOD.

11/7/2005 12:55:34 PM

Quote :

"didnt miami not have their starting qb in the start of the season when they lost a game?"

Miami lost to FSU with Wright starting. Both teams looked like ass at that point.

[Edited on November 7, 2005 at 1:07 PM. Reason : more specifically, both offenses]

11/7/2005 1:03:17 PM

Alabama is #3 in the BCS poll, the one that really counts even though it shouldnt. And Notre Dame better than the likes of Georgia and LSU??? YEAH RIGHT. by the way Notre Dame is 11th in the BCS now. I dont understand all the ND hype, the hardest schedule in the country? Are you serious? Who have they beat besides overrated Michigan, Pitt, and Purdue? And they lost to an average Michigan State team.

11/7/2005 2:33:53 PM

^just because you lose the games does not mean it isn't the hardest schedule.

in response to the original post

Quote :

"Alabama is still its three toughest games of the season (LSU, at Auburn, vs. SEC East champion) from running the table. Second, no team that scores a grand total of one offensive touchdown in its last three wins -- against three teams with a combined SEC record of 3-14 -- has a legit BCS beef with the likes of USC and Texas mercilessly throttling all comers on a weekly basis."

11/7/2005 2:53:32 PM

i hope ucla upsets usc, texas loses to colorodo in the big 12 championship game and bama loses to lsu this week or in the sec champ game


i want total bcs chaos

11/7/2005 2:59:12 PM

WHY ISNT NC STATE RANKED!!!???

11/7/2005 3:04:31 PM

BC's still ranked in the USA Today poll. Hopefully that will help us out.

11/7/2005 3:08:08 PM