http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051116/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/iraq_white_phosphorous

Quote :

"WASHINGTON - Pentagon officials acknowledged Tuesday that U.S. troops used white phosphorous as a weapon against insurgent strongholds during the battle of Fallujah last November. But they denied an Italian television news report that the spontaneously flammable material was used against civilians. Lt. Col. Barry Venable, a Pentagon spokesman, said that while white phosphorous is most frequently used to mark targets or obscure a position, it was used at times in Fallujah as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants. "It was not used against civilians," Venable said. The spokesman referred reporters to an article in the March-April 2005 edition of the Army's Field Artillery magazine, an official publication, in which veterans of the Fallujah fight spelled out their use of white phosphorous and other weapons. The authors used the shorthand "WP" in referring to white phosphorous. "WP proved to be an effective and versatile munition," the authors wrote. "We used it for screening missions at two breeches and, later in the fight, as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes when we could not get effects on them with HE (high explosive)" munitions. "We fired `shake and bake' missions at the insurgents, using WP to flush them out and HE to take them out." The authors added, in citing lessons for future urban battles, that fire-support teams should have used another type of smoke bomb for screening missions in Fallujah "and saved our WP for lethal missions." The battle for Fallujah was the most intense and deadly fight of the war, after the fall of Baghdad in April 2003. The city, about 35 miles west of Baghdad on the Euphrates River, was a key insurgent stronghold. The authors of the "after action" report said they encountered few civilians in their area of operations. Italian communists held a sit-in Monday in front of the U.S. Embassy in Rome to protest the reported use by American troops of white phosphorous. Italy's state-run RAI24 news television aired a documentary last week alleging the U.S. used white phosphorous shells in a "massive and indiscriminate way" against civilians during the Fallujah offensive. The State Department, in response, initially denied that U.S. troops had used white phosphorous against enemy forces. "They were fired into the air to illuminate enemy positions at night, not at enemy fighters." The department later said its statement had been incorrect. "There is a great deal of misinformation feeding on itself about U.S. forces allegedly using `outlawed' weapons in Fallujah," the department said. "The facts are that U.S. forces are not using any illegal weapons in Fallujah or anywhere else in Iraq." Venable said white phosphorous shells are a standard weapon used by field artillery units and are not banned by any international weapons convention to which the U.S. is a signatory. haha White phosphorous is a colorless-to-yellow translucent wax-like substance with a pungent, garlic-like smell. The form used by the military ignites once it is exposed to oxygen, producing such heat that it bursts into a yellow flame and produces a dense white smoke. It can cause painful burn injuries to exposed human flesh. "

wouldn't be surprised if sarin, soman or VX have made it through as well...



[Edited on November 15, 2005 at 9:16 PM. Reason : .]

11/15/2005 9:08:31 PM

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=363687

11/15/2005 9:14:44 PM

eh a lil too late i guess

11/15/2005 9:17:00 PM

THIS JUST IN: US FORCES USE LEGAL WEAPONS AGAINST ENEMY
STAY TUNED FOR MORE DETAILS

11/15/2005 9:24:46 PM

you mean they are not using sunshine and puppies?

11/15/2005 9:34:07 PM

THIS JUST IN: WHITE PHOSPHORUS RECENTLY CLASSIFIED AS A 8th GROUP NOBLE GAS
STAY TUNED FOR MORE DETAILS

11/15/2005 10:08:32 PM

well that proves they must be using sarin and vx

11/15/2005 10:11:11 PM

and bees.

11/15/2005 10:13:00 PM

And the dogs with bees in their mouths so that when they bark they shoot bees at you.

11/15/2005 10:19:42 PM

phosphorus is my favorite element

11/15/2005 10:19:55 PM

Quote :

"you mean they are not using sunshine and puppies?"

ahahahahahah

11/15/2005 10:30:09 PM

Quote :

"THIS JUST IN: US FORCES USE LEGAL WEAPONS AGAINST ENEMY STAY TUNED FOR MORE DETAILS"

First of all, the WP is being used on not only the enemy, but also Iraqi CIVILIANS.

And I hate to burst your motto here, but it seems pretty obvious that the "legality" of the use of WP on the enemy (as opposed to for "lighting" purposes) is AT LEAST DEBATABLE. The Italian television documentary is arguing that use of WP in this manner (on even the enemy) amounts to the use of chemical weapons.

11/16/2005 8:05:19 AM

Quote :

""It was not used against civilians," Venable said. "

Yeah, and "we don't torture" and they "didn't mislead the nation on Iraqi intelligence."

11/16/2005 8:06:57 AM

who the fuck cares?

do you think bullets dont hurt ppl?

what about mortars and howitzers and the like?

your naivete is cute.

11/16/2005 9:38:03 AM

Quote :

"who the fuck cares?"

Yeah, who cares if they use chemical weapons? Who cares if we use napalm on people? It's not like those type of weapons have been banned by convention.

And who cares if civilians are killed in combat?

11/16/2005 9:44:14 AM

Quote :

"Yeah, who cares if they use chemical weapons? Who cares if we use napalm on people? It's not like those type of weapons have been banned by convention. "

Your such a tool salisbot, do you ever bother to research anything about the military before going off? Napalm??? We don't use napalm anymore. Banned weapons??? Don't think so!!

Quote :

"White phosphorus is not banned by any treaty to which the United States is a signatory. Smokes and obscurants comprise a category of materials that are not used militarily as direct chemical agents. The United States retains its ability to employ incendiaries to hold high-priority military targets at risk in a manner consistent with the principle of proportionality that governs the use of all weapons under existing law. The use of white phosphorus or fuel air explosives are not prohibited or restricted by Protocol II of the Certain Conventional Weapons Convention (CCWC), the Convention on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Certain Conventional Weapons which may be Deemed to be Excessively Injurious or to have Indiscriminate Effects. "

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/wp.htm

As for your pathetic chemical weapons argument, wtf are you truly loony??? What do you think gunpowder, C4, thermite, symtex, and virtually every single thing that goes BOOM is made out of???? That has got to be the most ludicrous argument I've ever heard of. Willy Pete does not even begin to compare to blister or nerve agents.

11/16/2005 12:07:51 PM

Quote :

"We don't use napalm anymore"

Yeah, they just don't call it "napalm" anymore. They use a weapon very similar to "napalm" and give it a new name.

The new napalm-like weapon is called the "M77 Bomb."

[Edited on November 16, 2005 at 12:25 PM. Reason : 1]

11/16/2005 12:24:29 PM

Quote :

"Willy Pete does not even begin to compare to blister or nerve agents."

indeed. i mean, it only melts skin to the bone. pfff

11/16/2005 12:45:07 PM

Quote :

"As for your pathetic chemical weapons argument, wtf are you truly loony??? What do you think gunpowder, C4, thermite, symtex, and virtually every single thing that goes BOOM is made out of???? That has got to be the most ludicrous argument I've ever heard of. Willy Pete does not even begin to compare to blister or nerve agents."

by that stupid analogy you can also put atomic bomb on the list. it's a chemical after all, just like chlorine, uranium, plutonium, sarin, soman, and VX are. white phosphorus has far worse effects than chlorine, which is classified (and banned) as a chemical weapon.

11/16/2005 7:10:48 PM

Can anyone in this thread give me the definition of "chemical weapon" in their own words?

11/16/2005 7:37:54 PM

i could give you the real definition
but then wp wouldnt be in it

11/16/2005 8:04:20 PM

Quote :

"white phosphorus has far worse effects than chlorine"

ps please explain

11/16/2005 8:05:03 PM

go read a chemistry book.

11/16/2005 8:23:49 PM

lock this stupid thread

keep it all in the other thread.

i don't want to debunk all of the same idiocy twice.

11/16/2005 8:26:30 PM

ive never seen anything in a chemistry book tell me how wp is worse than chlorine
and ive actually had to learn about chlorine
could you explain

11/16/2005 8:47:06 PM

It's harder to spell.

11/16/2005 8:47:55 PM

okay?

11/16/2005 9:34:25 PM

I hate it when I go to a public pool that has too much white phosphorus in it.

11/16/2005 10:08:13 PM

well chlorine gas isnt used very often anymore
but still

[Edited on November 16, 2005 at 10:09 PM. Reason : for pools]

11/16/2005 10:09:40 PM

Idiots.

Where is it written that we aren't allowed to use chemical weapons, in general?

Tear gas is undeniably a chemical weapon. Is it out now? Oh, no, that's right, you don't want to ban chemical weapons, you want to ban hurty bad weapons.

How the fuck do you go from, "We used a perfectly legal weapon in a perfectly legal way," to "Well obviously this indicates that we're probably using illegal weapons in illegal ways.?

11/16/2005 11:18:38 PM

yes; its not a matter of being a 'chemical weapon'...its about how the weapon works

11/16/2005 11:22:04 PM

I don't see the problem with this.

I'd bet the collateral damage is probably lower than with HE artillary.

11/16/2005 11:42:33 PM

I agree with GrumpyGOP, but in not such a harsh way.

If we flooded them with CO2 until they passed out, that would be chemical warfare, wouldn't it?

Isn't the lead in bullets a chemical too? Are we lead-poisoning them? It really doesn't matter how we kill them, they will hate us anyway.

11/17/2005 12:10:23 AM

I wouldn't take so broad a take on "chemical weapon" as to include bullets, but even within the most narrow interpretation you still find a lot of weapons that are pretty mild and which, in fact, get used on civilians regularly with little complaint. Ex, tear gas.

Meaning that, "OMF CHEMICAL WEAPON!!!1ONE" is not smart.

11/17/2005 12:28:04 AM

Quote :

""you mean they are not using sunshine and puppies?""

A carpet bombing campain of puppies would work

11/17/2005 3:59:47 AM

Quote :

"Isn't the lead in bullets a chemical too? "

dont get me started on depleted uranium

11/17/2005 4:06:50 AM

you get shot aaaaaaaaaand you get radiation poisoning!!!!!!!

11/17/2005 9:44:02 AM

Quote :

"A carpet bombing campain of puppies would work "

Actually no, the Iraqi's despise dogs, seriously. It would really piss them off if we brought more dogs over there. The locals would beg us all the time to shoot the dogs. One of the BN commanders brokered a deal one time in Fallujah to shoot all the dogs for the people if they'd only quit attacking us. But of course they didn't quit attacking us. Thats why wherever you see an American checkpoint or FOB, you'll see a bunch of dogs. The dogs fucking love us over there!!!

11/17/2005 10:34:52 AM

so touching

11/17/2005 8:29:45 PM

Quote :

"Hometown : Canis Lupus "

11/17/2005 8:59:47 PM

furry

11/17/2005 10:04:58 PM

It's a sad fact that there is a small but vocal segment of this society who truly believe that we, the United States, are the real enemy here. Not these insurgents who are hell bent on killing anybody and everybody through any means necessary and without discretion to race, age or creed but rather the ones who are risking their lives to keep these people on the defensive in far away places so assholes like 1in10^9 can sleep safely at night on his big Michael Moore life sized pillow and matching sheets.

11/17/2005 10:16:14 PM

why are you back?

11/17/2005 10:24:57 PM

B/c the soapbox has become a latter day Red Square central. I am sorry if alternative views shake up your little world.

11/17/2005 10:44:16 PM

Quote :

"It's a sad fact that there is a small but vocal segment of this society who truly believe that we, the United States, are the real enemy here. Not these insurgents who are hell bent on killing anybody and everybody through any means necessary and without discretion to race, age or creed but rather the ones who are risking their lives to keep these people on the defensive in far away places so assholes like 1in10^9 can sleep safely at night on his big Michael Moore life sized pillow and matching sheets."

How many people did the Americans kill?

11/17/2005 10:52:09 PM

not enough, apparently.

11/17/2005 10:59:44 PM

I know. I'm waiting for you to take a walk in some shady neighborhood late at night so that the problem could finally be fixed.

11/17/2005 11:03:22 PM

*chest thump chest thump* LIBERALS LOVE MICHEAL MOORE

DETRACTORS OF THE WAR AND BUSH ARE COMMIES

11/17/2005 11:07:52 PM

^^ well i guess you'll be there to know about it so i can kick your ass too?

11/17/2005 11:10:22 PM

i dont like bush, i dont like this war, and i think the white phosphorus thing is stupid

11/17/2005 11:10:47 PM