Quote :

"Kerry accuses Bush, Cheney of `misleading' in Iraqi war run-up By Glen Johnson, AP Political Writer | November 21, 2005 BOSTON --Sen. John Kerry said Monday Vice President Dick Cheney is "misleading" the American people when he asserts Congress saw the same prewar intelligence as he and President Bush did before approving the U.S. invasion of Iraq. "That is just plain, flat, not true," said the Massachusetts Democrat, who was his party's 2004 presidential nominee. And in a pointed rebuttal to a speech delivered by Cheney only hours earlier, Kerry accused Bush and Cheney of concealing critical dissenting information before Congress voted in October 2002 to support military action in Iraq. Kerry was among those who voted yes. The senator said: --Bush said Iraq had a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical and biological weapons, but the U.S. Air Force disagreed "and the Air Force's dissent was kept secret, even as the president publicly made the opposite case before the vote. "Congress wasn't told that," Kerry told reporters at his Boston office, a line he would repeat after outlining each charge. --Bush and Cheney asserted that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein could launch a chemical or biological attack in under one hour, but they did not clear it with the CIA, "which mistrusted the source so much they refused to include it in the National Intelligence Estimate." --The administration said Saddam was attempting to acquire nuclear fuel for weapons, even though the CIA told it three times in writing and verbally that was not true. --Bush said Iraq had trained al-Qaida members in bombmaking and the use of poison and deadly gases, but the Defense Intelligence Agency had previously concluded that the source was a fabricator. "The fact is that they're now trying to rewrite the rationale for the administration going into Iraq," Kerry said. "Instead they really ought to be trying to fix the problems that they've created with their incompetence over the last few years.""

http://tinyurl.com/77ytp

11/22/2005 7:55:05 AM

i just accidently shot myself in the foot and got a purple heart

11/22/2005 7:57:27 AM

it's not gonna work...

no one's gonna nominate you in 2008...

quit being a whiney bitch and let someone who has a CHANCE attack the prez...

11/22/2005 8:28:35 AM

^ yeah, pretty much ...

11/22/2005 8:33:07 AM

Kerry's a douche, but I voted for said douche on the off-chance of getting rid of Bush.

Having said that, let him be on the pointy end. He's got nothing to loose, may make a few salient points that get some traction, and smooth the way for whomever's going to get the dem nomination. I'm not sold on Clinton getting it FWIW.

Not a democrat, but despise what Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, etc have brought to the table. I'd vote for McCain depending on who's on his team. Any neo-cons on that slate would drill my vote for him in a heartbeat.

/ Ron Paul fan

11/22/2005 8:33:44 AM

Quote :

"quit being a whiney bitch and let someone who has a CHANCE attack the prez... "

11/22/2005 8:42:52 AM

mark warner `08

11/22/2005 9:06:17 AM

Hell it could be an all-virginia ballot - Warner vs. Allen.

11/22/2005 9:29:03 AM

FLIP FLOP!!!

11/22/2005 11:24:02 AM

Christ. Kerry voted for it.

STFU kerry. Go put a bandaid on that flesh wound and get your purple heart while your fellow comrades who lost limbs and half their face get the same award.

[Edited on November 22, 2005 at 11:36 AM. Reason : .]

11/22/2005 11:36:36 AM

It's cute because you don't even understand the basic point that Kerry is making.

You're special.

11/22/2005 11:50:57 AM

Quote :

"Christ. Kerry voted for it."

11/22/2005 12:01:02 PM

weak excuse for kerry and most of the other liberal democrats out there

11/22/2005 12:02:54 PM

YES
THE FACT THAT THEY WERE LIED TO
IS A WEAK EXCUSE

11/22/2005 12:05:26 PM

FLIP FLOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

11/22/2005 12:18:13 PM

We led you to vote for the war, and you should stand by your vote.

When a used car salesman lies me into buying a lemon, I have legal recourse.

11/22/2005 12:41:59 PM

you should also take responsibility for not having done enough research on your own. particularly if you're in as responsible a position as being a senator

in fact, these same liberal senators who voted for the war have admitted to not even reading the intelligence documents that the whitehouse provided - WHICH DO HAVE FOOTNOTES, that, albeit in small print, describe the uncertainty related to the intelligence described.

so yea, like I said - WEAK EXCUSE - these liberals couldn't be bothered to do their own research and instead relied on a republican president to make the case for them.

this is not unlike the patriot act debacle where no one bothered to read the legislation.

[Edited on November 22, 2005 at 2:16 PM. Reason : s]

11/22/2005 2:14:28 PM

mootduff hates politicians.

11/22/2005 2:38:24 PM

^^ I'm not saying I would be the same way, but I think it's safe to say that many of them felt it was safe to assume that if the administration was saying this shit over and over to congress, the UN, and whateverthefuckelse, it wasn't a huge fabrication.

11/22/2005 2:40:21 PM

Quote :

"We led you to vote for the war, and you should stand by your vote. When a used car salesman lies me into buying a lemon, I have legal recourse."

And no one can prove that Bush lied. He operated with the same intelligence Kerry had. That's why Kerry voted for it. Do you honestly think the President drummed up this, cooked a few documents, just to go to war? I wouldn't pin that on my most hated enemy. I would never say that Clinton lied to bomb Iraq so he could get out of the steam he was in with lewinsky... clinton bombed iraq. Where was the outrage over the lies?

11/22/2005 2:41:10 PM

The Patriot Act was rammed through voted on within 24hrs. Have you seen the size of that thing?

They (all of those fuckers) should have put the breaks on the vote until they could have at least glanced at it. The fever pitch of the administration and country to "do something" didn't help.

Hell, they should have never voted to give the president the leeway to wage war at his leisure either, but that's another thing all together.

11/22/2005 2:43:11 PM

Quote :

"These liberals couldn't be bothered to do their own research and instead relied on a republican president to make the case for them."

Research what you dumb motherfucker its not like you can check out 'Iraq - Al-Qeada - WMD Connections for Dummies' from the local library.

11/22/2005 3:20:19 PM

Quote :

"THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON October 5, 2001 MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF STATE THE SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THE DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE THE DIRECTOR OF FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION SUBJECT: Disclosures to the Congress As we wage our campaign to respond to the terrorist attacks against the United States on September 11, and to protect us from further acts of terrorism, I intend to continue to work closely with the Congress. Consistent with longstanding executive branch practice, this Administration will continue to work to inform the leadership of the Congress about the course of, and important developments in, our critical military, intelligence, and law enforcement operations. At the same time, we have an obligation to protect military operational security, intelligence sources and methods, and sensitive law enforcement investigations. Accordingly, your departments should adhere to the following procedures when providing briefings to the Congress relating to the information we have or the actions we plan to take: (i) Only you or officers expressly designated by you may brief Members of Congress regarding classified or sensitive law enforcement information; and (ii) The only Members of Congress whom you or your expressly designated officers may brief regarding classified or sensitive law enforcement information are the Speaker of the House, the House Minority Leader, the Senate Majority and Minority Leaders, and the Chairs and Ranking Members of the Intelligence Committees in the House and Senate. This approach will best serve our shared goals of protecting American lives, maintaining the proper level of confidentiality for the success of our military, intelligence, and law enforcement operations, and keeping the leadership of the Congress appropriately informed about important developments. This morning, I informed the House and Senate leadership of this policy which shall remain in effect until you receive further notice from me. [signed:] George W. Bush"

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2001/10/gwb100501.html

Read the Downing Street Documents.

11/22/2005 3:33:08 PM

Quote :

"Research what you dumb motherfucker its not like you can check out 'Iraq - Al-Qeada - WMD Connections for Dummies' from the local library"

the liberal senators neglected to read the information (and disclaimers) that the white house provided - instead basing their votes on stump speeches and press releases from the white house.

now if you think that absolves them, then fine - you're a simple partisan.

most intellectually honest people will acknowledge that the liberal senators who voted for the war had an opportunity to actually review the evidence, read the published disclaimers regarding the accuracy of the intelligence, and had an opportunity to then express their opposition.

they didn't. they decided to base their decision on press releases from a republican white house.

eh.

[Edited on November 22, 2005 at 3:38 PM. Reason : s]

11/22/2005 3:37:39 PM

Quote :

"I wouldn't pin that on my most hated enemy. I would never say that Clinton lied to bomb Iraq so he could get out of the steam he was in with lewinsky... clinton bombed iraq. Where was the outrage over the lies?"

Still no response...

11/22/2005 4:33:34 PM

Quote :

"the liberal senators neglected to read the information (and disclaimers)"

do you have any examples of these disclaimers
and do any of them negate the information kerry presented today?

11/22/2005 4:41:15 PM

Quote :

"The President could take the politics out of Iraq once and for all if he would simply go on television and say to the American people "Yes, we made mistakes. Yes, there are things I would have done differently. But now that we're here, I am willing to work with both Republicans and Democrats to find the most responsible way out.""

- Barack Obama, today

http://obama.senate.gov/speech/051122-moving_forward_in_iraq/index.html

11/22/2005 4:42:47 PM

Quote :

"Woodfoot: and do any of them negate the information kerry presented today?"

And yet, regardless of whatever "lies" Bush told to convince him to vote for war, Kerry "actually did vote for the $87 billion" (before he voted against it of course )...and pretty much every other spending bill for the war that's come along since.

I do admire teh L3ft for one thing though: it takes balls to admit you were repeatedly fooled over and over and over and over (and over) again by someone you yourself repeatedly claim is a dumbass...

11/22/2005 4:52:34 PM

Anybody who thinks the congress has access to the same intelligence that the White House does is a fucking moron.

11/22/2005 6:37:07 PM

the point is, the documents that the liberal senators were provided with, very clearly stated (in the footnotes) that there were doubts as to the veracity of the intelligence.

if they had even bothered to read it, they wouldn't have been "fooled"

but they decided to take the word of REPUBLICAN press-releases.

i mean - do you get it or not? liberal democrats bought into republican PRESS RELEASES!!!

jesus what a bunch of stupid morons

11/22/2005 6:51:35 PM

Quote :

"i just accidently shot myself in the foot and got a purple heart"

vs.

Quote :

"I got 5 deferrals from serving in Vietnam"

11/22/2005 6:53:26 PM

^^ now can you show us this?

11/22/2005 7:01:17 PM

what saddens me most, regardless of republican, democrat, whatever else, that doesnt fucking matter because political parties are stupid.

is that some people still defend bush and i live around people that stupid

11/22/2005 7:10:51 PM

Quote :

"instead basing their votes on stump speeches and press releases from the white house."

i know this is going to sound like hopeless idealism, but i long for the day when you can listen to a speech and read a press release and trust that the people creating them aren't lying through their teeth...

especially when they come through the White House, which should be held to a HIGHER standard, not a lesser one...

11/22/2005 7:26:45 PM

Quote :

"I voted for it, before I voted against it"

11/22/2005 7:45:00 PM

the mighty liberal warrior strikes again for the anti-bush... THIS week...

11/22/2005 8:17:46 PM

Quote :

"you should also take responsibility for not having done enough research on your own. particularly if you're in as responsible a position as being a senator"

WTF? You're saying it as if the Dems were too lazy to go to a public library and google shit up. It IS a lie that the Congress was given the same information. You know it full well. Senators simply CANNOT be given some information that President has access to.

They are responsible for authorizing the use of force, which they should have NEVER done no matter what the case was. They should have said to Bush: When you're ready to attack, come to us and ask for a declaration of war. Giving President a blank check was criminal. But the Senate was not looking at the same information. That _is_ a lie.

11/22/2005 10:23:49 PM

yes but they refused to even read the information that they WERE given - and if they had read it, they would have seen in the footnotes, a discussion regarding doubts as to the legitimacy of the intelligence

11/23/2005 7:43:57 AM

Quote :

"MathFreak: Senators simply CANNOT be given some information that President has access to."

You're kidding right?

Plz to look up "congressional oversight". Then grab a US history book, preferably something that covers from FDR onward and includes a Supreme Court case or two. There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of times where Congress gets more classified information than the President, much less "some information the President has access to"...

[Edited on November 23, 2005 at 10:49 AM. Reason : ---]

11/23/2005 10:41:33 AM

^^ ONCE AGAIN, DO YOU CARE TO BACK UP YOUR ARGUMENT WITH FACTS??

11/23/2005 11:19:39 AM

Why does anyone still care what that LOSER says?

11/23/2005 1:14:17 PM

Because he's 2x smarter than the winner.

11/23/2005 1:47:05 PM

^^^ There's plenty of top secret information, the daily security briefing, shit like that, that congress will never see.

11/23/2005 1:47:59 PM

It has been well established that the President didn't mislead anybody. Even David Gregory from the New York Times and that Oliphant guy from the Boston Globe said as much the other night on The News Hour.

That still does change anything in my mind. Hussein was funding terrorism particularly in Israel by paying the suicide bomber's families for compensation. Funny thing that, the suicide bombings in that region are almost nil now.

The man in the short run was a regional threat and in the long run a potentially devastating threat to the United States. I think it is far better that we overthrew him before the situation became critical. We will now have another ally in the Middle East other than Israel while democracy and the chances of economic and social freedom that goes along with it will be available to a people who have only known despotism and terror.

So to summarize:

1) We eliminated a national security threat
2) We aided in ending some terrorism in the region
3) We will have a new ally
4) Iraq will be able to rule and govern itself

I haven't even mentioned that we're keeping the terrorists on the run and bottling up their resources, far away from home might I add. If some of you simply put down your Bush is the debil blinders you just might see the good that is being done.

11/24/2005 8:31:34 AM

Quote :

"So to summarize: 1) We eliminated a national security threat 2) We aided in ending some terrorism in the region 3) We will have a new ally 4) Iraq will be able to rule and govern itself"

The opposite of all of that is true.

11/24/2005 8:34:59 AM

And you're a liar.

So Hussein wasn't a threat?

Suicide bombings are still going on in Israel, for compensation might I add?

The new Iraqi government is going to hate us even though we're the ones who gave them their opportunity?

Are the people in the middle east just too stupid for a cultured liberal like yourself and couldn't possibly fathom the idea of actually being a free people?

Your comments reek of ignorance, aloofness, stupidity and racism.

Save all of your links to all of your leftist websites. Linking comments to other idiots won't strengthen your position.

[Edited on November 24, 2005 at 8:43 AM. Reason : ]

11/24/2005 8:38:49 AM

Who is this Kerry?

11/24/2005 10:33:01 AM

Quote :

"So Hussein wasn't a threat?"

to ME an AMERICAN sitting in AMERICA?
all sources point to "no"

Quote :

"Suicide bombings are still going on in Israel, for compensation might I add?"

wtf does israel have to do with our operations in Iraq?
no really
WHAT DOES ISRAEL HAVE TO DO WITH IRAQ?

Quote :

"The new Iraqi government is going to hate us even though we're the ones who gave them their opportunity?"

yeah, probably
sharia doesn't bend just because someone took out your sovereign leader and killed a shit ton of your people

Quote :

"Are the people in the middle east just too stupid for a cultured liberal like yourself and couldn't possibly fathom the idea of actually being a free people? "

its not stupidity
its a deep cultural difference that i guess some people just won't accept...

11/24/2005 10:35:01 AM

Woodfoot, you really need to read the Balfour report.

11/24/2005 10:53:18 AM

yea Wlfpk4Life, multi-culturalism is a GOOD THING and if you can't respect these people's culture of oppression and corruption then, well, you're a fucking asshole.

While we're at it, woodfoot, would you like to laud the southern baptists, fred phelps, and neo-nazi cultures?

I think every culture should be respected and honored

11/24/2005 10:54:43 AM