quick question. have a 2004 acura tsx with approx. 34k miles on it. it is starting to shudder when i brake at higher speeds (think going on the interstate at 70mph and the guy in front of you hits his brakes). had the alignment checked. and the tires are balanced. thinking i have a warped rotor(s). question.... if that is the case, what is causing this? is 35k normal? or do i have some bad driving habits (yes, i'll be glad to admit it if i do). i drive mostly interstate. over the last few months, traffic has nearly doubled on my route due to the hurricane recovery and the average speed has gone from say 75 to 85 (since there are no cops out) so i am having to hit my brakes hard a lot more often for slow ass left lane drivers and whatnot. no squeaking, no whining, just shuddering when braking hard or suddenly.

11/23/2005 10:58:23 AM

could be irregular wear by the pads or you splashed into a big puddle after braking (hot metal, cold water = queched metal)


When you take your car in they may be able to turn the rotors (depending on type...if cermaic rotors then can't be turned) or else they will have to replace them

Have them inspect your pads, and the calipers also.

Let me know what the results are

11/23/2005 11:21:31 AM

Quote :

"(depending on type...if cermaic rotors then can't be turned)"

You can't be serious... but I really think you are.

11/23/2005 11:27:06 AM

No way they put ceramic rotors on that car. Those things are $$$. He could have ceramic pads though. Either way, it sounds to me like you have a warped rotor problem personally, esp since it is worse at high speeds, that's usally an indicator. If you drive pretty hard then you might need new brake pads anyway with 34K on it. So i'd get the rotors turned when you get new pads and try to drive a little more easily on down the road.

11/23/2005 11:31:19 AM

^^What are you talking about, he's right, ceramic rotors CAN'T be turned. There are 2 other types of rotors. There are cast rotors and composite rotors. Almost everyone is setup to turn the cast rotors but very few places have the CORRECT setup to turn composite rotors.

Don't try to be a smart ass if you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[Edited on November 23, 2005 at 11:31 AM. Reason : -]

[Edited on November 23, 2005 at 11:32 AM. Reason : -]

11/23/2005 11:31:39 AM

^^ Are you talking to me? I def wasn't trying to be a smart ass.

11/23/2005 11:36:17 AM

Nah man, I was talking to cdubya

11/23/2005 11:38:55 AM

and I was referring to the fact that there is no way in god's green earth that an acura TSX has ceramic rotors...

I call it a... jump... to conclusions mat

[Edited on November 23, 2005 at 11:42 AM. Reason : .]

11/23/2005 11:40:59 AM

Thanks for clearning that up

11/23/2005 11:42:58 AM

Quote :

"could be irregular wear by the pads or you splashed into a big puddle after braking (hot metal, cold water = queched metal) "

hmm i never thought of that as a viable cause... but i guess... after the hurricane i drove through a lot of water. i just thought 34k seemed low and was worried that it was me... but i drive mostly interstate and compared to city driving don't brake much... but when i do have to, it is at 80mph and usually suddenly. argh.

i definitely don't have ceramic rotors... that i do know

11/23/2005 11:44:37 AM

gotcha

11/23/2005 11:46:28 AM

Thats BS, the reason a rotor warps is that the metal has gotten so hot that what once was a flat disc now has expanded to where it can no longer be flat when still attached to cooler hub area.

(Take a straw, grab both ends and push together and imagine that as a look at part of the disk from the outside)

The pads grab those waves and lumps on the hot rotor and drag on them, often helping to pull the metal into a more evenly (you actually feel it more) warped situation.

Please for the love of god people understand the hows and whys of rotor warpage cause its so freakin common, and an easy fix.

and for the record, unless you're in a small group of people who wouldnt need this advice anyhow, you have shitty cast average joe car rotors.
[Edited on November 23, 2005 at 11:59 AM. Reason : sdfd]

[Edited on November 23, 2005 at 12:00 PM. Reason : every freakin time someone asks about rotor warpage wrong information given]

11/23/2005 11:58:40 AM

Uhh...James...splashing into water can warp the begeezus out of your rotors. The metal contracts as it cools very quickly, producing stresses in the metal, as some parts cool faster (whichever hits the water first or the outside vs the core of the casting). These stresses are what often warp the rotor.

Of course, running really hot from frequent, heavy braking (or being inadequately sized; heat builds locally before it can be dispersed through the rotor mass) can also cause rotor warpage due to expansion of the metal, like you said. But it's not the only reason.

11/23/2005 12:19:55 PM

Quote :

"unless you're in a small group of people who wouldnt need this advice anyhow, you have shitty cast average joe car rotors. "

11/23/2005 12:42:10 PM

Quenching generally involves dipping a hot object into a large quantity of liquid. In order for this proposed warpage due to quenching to work, you would need to ride your brakes down a large hill, then jump the guard rail at the bottom and land in a creek, where the water is above the wheels. Quenching does not occur by splashing a hot rotor with water, you pretty much have to submerge it for some amount of time. Granted the splashing water does have some cooling effect, but the mass of the rotor is large enough, and its hot enough, that just splashing with water has no effect on it. Try this simple test, take a cast iron skillet, leave it on your stove top with the burner on high till it starts to smoke, now splash it with water, then touch it, I bet there is no discernible temperature difference.

11/23/2005 12:57:44 PM

i did drive through water more than 1/2 up the wheel for over a hundred feet twice per day for probably a week or more. it was a low lying area right off the exit ramp i had to take. dunno if that'd be enough.

anywho, thanks for all the comments... at least i have a good idea what the problem is and i don't feel like it was totally my bad driving habits that caused it.

11/23/2005 1:03:59 PM

Queti it all depends, but that driving pattern could have impacted your rotors


For those getting on me for mentioning cermaic motors, I didn't say she had them, just made a general comment.


I know for a fact a big deep puddle can warp your rotors, cause when I had my celica I put on new pads, rotors, and calipers, and decided to do a little driving. On the way back into raleigh I went down hillsborugh st by the waffle house and ran through an immense puddle (you know what I am talking about if you have been there during a good rain) and a day or 2 later I noticed the fluttering at high speeds and had to turn brand new rotors.

11/23/2005 3:15:45 PM

Well thats good logic. My heads wet, it must be raining. or I just got out of the shower, or ran through a sprinkler, or perhaps my roof leaks. Perhaps you didnt torque you lug nuts correctly, used shitty pads, shitty rotors or cant drive. Take a metallurgy class, or get some machining experience, your rotors wont warp from the small amount of water that gets splashed on them driving through puddles.

11/23/2005 3:57:11 PM

puddles yes,


but when one has rims that are 5 spokes and has a person who is doing a lot of speed up/slow down and then hits a large puddle (about 1/3 height of tire) it can warp your rotor

11/23/2005 4:16:31 PM

its probably just pad deposits

11/23/2005 5:28:41 PM

Quote :

"do i have some bad driving habits"

probably not. my wife's CL has been through 4 sets of pads and rotors in its 80K lifespan so far. the first 3 were within 40K. now i know she has some bad driving habits but the rotors shouldn't have warped as bad as they were. acura replaced the pads and rotors all 4 times under warranty, even though they are a wear item. the service mgr. advised me they have had a time with mismatched pads that were overheating the rotors. on the 4th time, he advised me that they had changed the pad compound and shouldn't have anymore problems. we haven't. i'd check with acura to see if they'll help you out at all. i would be surprised if they don't because i've read that numerous acuras, yours included, have all experienced these brake problems.

11/23/2005 6:17:04 PM

Ben...if you submerge a rotor in water (NOT splash) and keep it there for a minute or so, you WILL dissipate enough heat to potentially warp the rotor. Maybe I should have made myself a little more clear.

[Edited on November 23, 2005 at 6:21 PM. Reason : uhhh]

11/23/2005 6:21:15 PM

yeah, I agree with that. But from what I have seen, when you hit a puddle, you splash a lot first, which will gradually cool the rotor as water boils off it, I think its very rare to have a blue hot rotor, then quench it. If it was a common occurance, then disk brakes wouldnt be too popular.

11/23/2005 8:30:57 PM

jesus h christ, a lot of bullshit filler commentary in here for a simple problem with a simple soluition

Quote :

"i am having to hit my brakes hard a lot more often for slow ass left lane drivers and whatnot"

there is your almost certian cause

the solution? get some new rotors. you and your boyfriend should have no problem doing this yourselves with simple hand tools- naturally go ahead and install some new pads too. if you are really anal flush/bleed the brake lines out, and if you are totally anal ask a bunch of dumbass kids what kind of pads and rotors to buy. the reality is you dont need anything special, hit up autozone for your parts, i prefer semi-metallic pads myself, but if brake dust is a concern to you then look into ceramic (both types readily available at autozone).

thats it, thread over, have a nice day.

11/23/2005 8:41:04 PM

Quote :

" is 35k normal? "

for an acura it is.

they have a terrible time getting things right.

for the TL/CL brake problems, the subsituted a softer pad compound which reduced the rotor warpage, but increased the time/distance required to stop AND gave worse pedal feel.

sucks. damn trade offs.

11/24/2005 1:48:52 AM

^this is true.

11/24/2005 9:08:04 AM