Quote :

"they have no one after shelden williams fouls out."

McRoberts is looking VERY good IMO...he is more aggressive than Sheldon around the goal and is going to continue to get better...he was the one in foul trouble tonight because he was guarding a much faster man (Seane Williams)...I still think Duke will win it all...there isn't a team with as much firepower as Duke when things are clicking and as the Freshmen develop throughout the year, they will only get better...

And I don't think some of you realize how crucial Demarcus Nelson is to Duke...to win against a tough Memphis team without him is huge...

11/25/2005 10:58:38 PM

At this point, I think that the thread is just gonna be Duke fans v. Pack fans

11/25/2005 11:04:14 PM

Quote :

"Greg Paulus will be a top 5 Duke point guard if he stays 4 years...he has the defense, leadership, vision, ball handling skills, and smarts to put him top 5 by the end of his career. I also know what kind of offensive player he is and that will come as his role in the offense increases...that is all."

he is already possibly the best offensive point guard in the ACC, kids got alotttt of raw talent and court vision, much like a steve nashish mentality, drive and dish. Key to beating Duke is takin away Williams and Redick. Drexel is a good team and memphis is one of the most talented this year as well.

as for people saying Duke isnt good heres my thoughts on the NCAAB this year:
its a rebuilding year for all programs, a HUGE talent pool went to the NBA and most of the teams are left with a few solid guys and a slew of freshmen. Given 2 years from now the NCAA will be just as raw if not more powerful than it was last year with extremely talented kids. If NC State ever has a chance to win a tournament or the ACC anytime soon, this is the year to do it. We have a solid, deep, experienced team thats capable of doing big things. But if we ever wanna think about a championship, its this year....the talent will just be 2 developed in the next few years to compete. Duke will prolly run the ACC this year but we wont be far behind. Herb is gettin Dukes number and we will beat them again this year i have a feeling.

/soapbox

11/25/2005 11:05:23 PM

let's just go ahead an give duke the NC. no one is allowed to point out their deficiencies on a fucking NCSU messageboard

11/25/2005 11:05:47 PM

Yeah, like the fact that paulis was using the same damn transistion move with williams all night and memphis was too stupid to pick up on it.

11/25/2005 11:10:29 PM

Quote :

"Greg Paulus will be a top 5 Duke point guard if he stays 4 years...he has the defense"

Quote :

"he is already possibly the best offensive point guard in the ACC"

um, what?

11/25/2005 11:35:23 PM

i think my point is clear

.

best pic i have seen in awhile

11/25/2005 11:50:53 PM

^^Paulus will be a top 5 Duke point guard...He has the most court saavy I've seen for a college player since Steve Nash at Santa Clara...you can't teach court vision and quick decision making...

If he doesn't pan out, you all have permission to flame me...I'll accept that

11/26/2005 12:02:11 AM

i have no problem with the court saavy and decision making, its the "best offensive PG" and "great defender" statements that are totally off base

11/26/2005 1:45:21 AM

what PG in the ACC so far has shown to be a better offensive weapon? sure Atsur has had a night or 2, but against who...no other PG has done near as well so far. Defensively i dont agree him being the best at all...hes got some learnin to do on defense.

11/26/2005 2:16:45 AM

Those Duke Fags needs to learn to how fucking "REBOUND". They won't be going anywhere, I think this year is the year they get owned by the ACC.

11/26/2005 2:22:41 AM

^^^

Quote :

""great defender""

there were at least 4 plays where he caused a turnover or stole it himself and numerous others where he would deflect a ball or tip a pass out of bounds to spark the team and give an emotional lift...

wojo type stuff...you know your basketball...you must have missed those parts of the game because you would have noticed

11/26/2005 2:24:55 AM

Quote :

"holy shit - a jump ball that isn't immediately followed by dickieV saying "that's a horrible rule" make that two in a row now"

too bad hes already brought up the what a staff speech with pitino, donovan, sendek for the 1000th time this season

IMO this duke team has absolutely nothing on the 99 and 01 teams and Uconn and texas have more firepower

Quote :

"^^Your basketball knowledge is immediately discarded when you refer to a team's ability based on their margin of victory like you did. That's a farce and no matter what you argue in this thread it brings your basketball IQ down about 25%...and that has nothing to do with Duke. "

agreed but I wish the media would stop jumping all over dook's balls whenever they blow out a woefully inept team by 40 points while other teams are already playing tough pre season tourny game

[Edited on November 26, 2005 at 2:39 AM. Reason : k]

11/26/2005 2:33:02 AM

just because paulus might be the best in a depleted ACC doesn't mean he is close to the best in the country*. A bunch of guys in the maui and the preseason NIT tourneys looked better. Coincidentally, many of us think those teams would be able to beat duke.

This team is very similar to last year. Williams and redick are still there. Randolph is replaced by mcroberts as the foul buffer. Paulus replaces Ewing, and Ewing was better. If i recall, that duke team went as far as we did.

(paulus not being able to shoot or create for himself severly limits how good he is. Felton didn't become good until he learned how to shoot the 3. Since paulus is so limited in his skills, I would put any of our guards on him and not worry about it.)


[Edited on November 26, 2005 at 2:49 AM. Reason : sdf]

11/26/2005 2:42:36 AM

Quote :

"If i recall, that duke team went as far as we did."

Nice point. We will this year too I believe.

11/26/2005 2:55:56 AM

^^wow...wrong on so many levels...i'm correcting you for college basketball's sake, not duke's

1. McRoberts is already much better than Shavlik Randolph...and that's 4 games into the season...remember the statement you made in a few months because he is only going to get better...

2. Paulus replaces Ewing...that's completely wrong...Ewing was a SG and didn't do that much of the ball handling, even when he handled the ball he was a scoring PG (Jay Williams) and not a true PG (Bobby Hurley). Dockery, Nelson and Pocius are filling in for Ewing and that's obviously a downgrade, but it brings new aspects to the team (especially with Nelson who is going to be better than Ewing). Paulus gives Duke a true point guard and he accounted for almost 20 of Sheldon's 30 points with incredible penetration and passes ala Felton and May...Duke hasn't had a point guard like that in a long, long time...

3. Paulus is not limited in his skills. Many experts had compared his shooting to Redick during his high school years, but he is not taking the role of a shooter. He is a point guard...and scoring is not his main role (see Justin Gray this year at WFU). He did hit the open 3 that he took against Memphis though...his main line is 8 assists and 4 turnovers...he made some pretty smart decisions for a Frosh PG

I mean good god guys, you can hate on Duke all you want and discredit their ranking (which they may not be deserving of currently), but when you butcher the facts...it pisses me off. Watch every college basketball game on a given night and then post about Duke's shortcomings when you have valid comparisons. College basketball will NEVER be dominated again like it used to be (UCLA, UNLV, Duke, UNC runs) because the talent is too widespread. Just look at all of the "sucky" teams that many people on here refer to...there have already been major upsets and VERY close games with teams that aren't on most people's radar...that's the joy of college basketball...and that's why I watch every game that I can, no matter who is playing...

Hate on Duke, UNC, or any other school as much as you want, but please, please, please watch enough College Basketball to be well informed! That's all I ask...I think that we could have some great threads if that would ever happen...there are a few College Basketball "gurus" around here on TWW

[Edited on November 26, 2005 at 3:38 AM. Reason : .]

11/26/2005 3:35:52 AM

if this is what happens the night duke beats a top 10 team without a key player just wait to duke loses. theyre gonna be the worst team in the nation on here.

11/26/2005 3:43:28 AM

Quote :

"wow...wrong on so many levels...i'm correcting you for college basketball's sake, not duke's"

sure you are . Lets wade through this bullshit:

Quote :

"1. McRoberts is already much better than Shavlik Randolph...and that's 4 games into the season...remember the statement you made in a few months because he is only going to get better..."

Except he's not. Look at his averages -- he averages 2 more points than shavlik did last year and that's with more minutes (remember that shavlik also was sick for a lot of last year). Furthermore, he's gives up much more than those 2 points defensively. If you actually watch the game, you'll see that he is a blackhole. He can't pass to his other teammates. That in itself is an opportunity cost.

Quote :

"2. Paulus replaces Ewing...that's completely wrong...Ewing was a SG and didn't do that much of the ball handling, even when he handled the ball he was a scoring PG (Jay Williams) and not a true PG (Bobby Hurley). Dockery, Nelson and Pocius are filling in for Ewing and that's obviously a [snip] blah blah blah"

This is just a lot of semantics bullshit. It doesn't matter what you fucking call a player -- it matters how they improve the team. Ewing handled the ball, just like Paulus. Ewing defended better than paulus. Ewing scored better than paulus. With paulus, you gain possibly 1 facet and lose two. You lose 3 if you count experience. Any way you cut it, it's a downgrade.

All the other guys play the same roles all the other guys played last year; they are the same cast of characters. Nelson isn't even playing -- he can't stay healthy. He was out a lot last year, and I bet he will be out some more this year.


Let me help with the english language and logic here:

1. "Many experts had compared his shooting to Redick during his high school years" - "Had" is past tense. It doesnt matter one bit what he did in high school -- it matters what he is not doing now, and thats shooting. It took Felton 2 years to learn how to shoot. Paulus has to show us he is a shooter, and he hasn't. Not surprising since he is a freshman.

Quote :

"3. Paulus is not limited in his skills...He is a point guard...and scoring is not his main role (see Justin Gray this year at WFU). "

So he has all these amazing skills, he's just keeping it on the DL because he is a PG, right? BULLSHIT. Let's look at the best pass-first PGs in the ACC last year -- Felton and Paul. It just so happens that not only could they penetrate and dish, the could shoot off the dribble, and shoot off the pass. What do you know! They were MULTIDIMENSIONAL, and it made them hard to guard.

It doesnt matter what fucking label some moron wants to call someone. if you don't do anything other than dribble, you will be easy to guard. Paulus will be easy to guard until he learns to shoot and score.

Quote :

"He did hit the open 3 that he took against Memphis though"

Big deal.

Quote :

"...his main line is 8 assists and 4 turnovers...he made some pretty smart decisions for a Frosh PG"

You realize how low a standard that is? He's still missing shooting ability, scoring ability (strength), experience, size, and defensive ability. There are many better guards in the country, and there were many better guards last year, Ewing being one of them.

It's so funny to watch you dookies suck his dick because he made two nice passes on 2 on 1 fast breaks. You can watch as much basketball as you want -- that doesn't alleviate you from being a homer and an idiot. please, please, please don't be an idiot


[Edited on November 26, 2005 at 4:33 AM. Reason : dsf]

11/26/2005 4:24:07 AM

haha...man you are an idiot...you honestly expect 2 freshman on ANY team to equal any 2 established seniors? Ewing set a lot of records at Duke...if ANYONE was good enough to replace him right away they'd be getting paid to play basketball...just go back into your hole and pretend that you know basketball because all you do is bash players...that isn't basketball no matter how good you are at it...

there isn't a single place in the world where i have said that paulus is one of the best guards in the country...he WILL be one of the best guards at duke by the time he is done...i did say that...so you can twist my words however you want...but no freshman will equal a senior like daniel ewing and your penis envy for the #1 team in the country makes you look like a loser when you don't discuss any basketball knowledge at all, but insist on comparing apples to oranges (seniors to freshman) in a sad attempt to "know" basketball...



oh no wonder...you're from lansing...you're mad about Hawaii and Gonzaga beating Michigan State...that makes sense ya know...that would cause me to trash teams on an NC State message board...

Quote :

"Except he's not. Look at his averages -- he averages 2 more points than shavlik did last year and that's with more minutes (remember that shavlik also was sick for a lot of last year). Furthermore, he's gives up much more than those 2 points defensively. If you actually watch the game, you'll see that he is a blackhole. He can't pass to his other teammates. That in itself is an opportunity cost."

Find one, just one basketball expert that says that Shavlik Randolph is better than Josh McRoberts RIGHT NOW EVEN and I will give you $100...that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life...McRoberts ALREADY has better stats than Shavlik and that is just as a supporting member to a loaded Duke team as a Freshman...

You're the kind of person that by your "basketball arguments"...I would pay to watch you play basketball because it would probably be like Along Came Polly with the Raindance...seriously man...you must not even know the sport to compare Freshman to Seniors 4 games into their career and to say that Shav Randolph is better than Josh McRoberts

Quote :

"He's still missing shooting ability, scoring ability (strength), experience, size, and defensive ability."

This really shows your lack of understanding of the sport. See there are these people called role players...Duke is really well known for having them. What they do is what they are told to do...some score, some pass, some just set screens...the combination of those talents and assignments make a team...and on these things called teams...not everyone can be the star player...some nights guys might not even score even if they have the talent to score...some may even be better suited at a different position, but they do what their coach tells them to do...and that's called discipline. A team mentality plus discipline with the right mix of talent creates wins...and if you disagree with me you should write Coach K at the Duke Athletic Department and tell him that if Greg Paulus can shoot 3's he should be doing that more...

[Edited on November 26, 2005 at 4:57 AM. Reason : Basketball for Dummies - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0764552481/104-7143267-5347916?v=glance&n=]

11/26/2005 4:38:42 AM

You said that Paulus is weak, but I would think the #1 football player in the country would have to be pretty strong...he took two good shots tonight actually...

Some stats for you since Paulus is so god awful...

He's shooting 50% from the field, 62.5% from the 3 point line and 100% from the free throw line...god he can't shoot and a 1.3 assist to turnover ratio with 1.25 steals and 3.75 rebounds a game sucks...what was Coack K thinking when he got him...what a horrible FRESHMAN

11/26/2005 5:12:40 AM

Quote :

"he is already possibly the best offensive point guard in the ACC"

1-7...5 points.

Paulus is a great point guard. But in order to be great offensively you have to make shots and score points (those two suprisingly go well together), not just have 7 or 8 assists a game. Just because he isn't "taking the role of the shooter" doesn't mean he can miss 6 out of 7 shots and still be called a great offensive point guard.

McRoberts is going to be really good if he doesn't get in foul trouble every game. And that will happen a lot. Aggressive is good, but not when you are out of control, which he has been every game.

I hate Duke...almost as much as UNC, but they are really good. Clear #1?? Probably not. I think UConn will be the best when they get their point guard back. Clear top 5?? Certainly. Sheldon Williams is probably the best low post player in college basketball right now and JJ Redick is probably the best shooting guard in the country. When you combine that with a bunch of McDAA's and Coach K, you're going to have a great team.

11/26/2005 9:31:03 AM

the bottom line is that i feel much better about our chances against them after watching them in the nit games

11/26/2005 10:10:04 AM

I don't understand how you even got this far in your life without the facility for logical thought.

Let's review the main point since you obviously forgot it: Duke is overrated. They are not the best team in the country and the will not win the NC.

That's what these first few games have shown us.

Quote :

"you honestly expect 2 freshman on ANY team to equal any 2 established seniors? Ewing set a lot of records at Duke...if ANYONE was good enough to replace him right away they'd be getting paid to play basketball"

THAT'S THE POINT YOU FUCKING MORON. Duke lost more than the gained this year. They are not going to be as good this year as they were last.

Quote :

"he WILL be one of the best guards at duke by the time he is done"

In other words, he isn't good now and is worse than ewing last year. However, for some mysterious reason, people think Duke is much better this year than they were last. They are O V E R R A T E D. Say it with me.

Quote :

"McRoberts ALREADY has better stats than Shavlik and that is just as a supporting member to a loaded Duke team as a Freshman..."

Because stats show mcroberts playing defense, right? And mcroberts is so much of a role player, he plays more minutes, right? Why don't you actually watch a duke game before opening your stupid mouth. McRoberts is not making up for Randolph, and Duke is worse than they were last year because of that.

Quote :

"See there are these people called role players ...Duke is really well known for having them. "

Now we see the homerism. Only Duke can replace 2 experienced seniors with two freshman role players and become better.

I'm the one who doesn't know basketball? Think again, sunshine. You could benefit a lot from looking at



[Edited on November 26, 2005 at 11:07 AM. Reason : sdf]

11/26/2005 11:06:59 AM

man they totally stole most of bugs bunny's character design

11/26/2005 11:09:56 AM

Quote :

"If i recall, that duke team went as far as we did."

...

That Duke team last year had a VERY easy road to the Sweet 16 because of high seeding. We had a very tough road.

But yeah, we ended up in the same place.

And yes, I think Duke is overrated at the moment. They have the potential to be #1 in the country this year, but I don't think they deserve that ranking just yet.

[Edited on November 26, 2005 at 11:20 AM. Reason : ]

11/26/2005 11:18:50 AM

oh man, skokiaan is so dumb. good points moody

11/26/2005 11:22:14 AM

Here come all the wannabe Duke students!

11/26/2005 11:25:06 AM

you didn't make a single argument in your counterpoints other than "duke is overrated"

11/26/2005 11:31:21 AM

Quote :

"They are not the best team in the country and the will not win the NC."

While you're at it, can you tell me how well State is going to do this year???

That is just a dumb comment to make. There are a bunch of teams that can win the NC this year...but Duke and UConn have the best chances right now. You guys are idiots saying shit like this after two close wins (against two pretty good teams)...EARLY IN THE SEASON.

11/26/2005 11:35:29 AM

Perhaps you need a little reader rabbit too.

Here's a hint: if you replace two better players with two worse players, what happens? Can your pea brain understand that? Can your understand these english words? Maybe your brain doesn't allow you to see anything that doesn't say OMF DUKE IS THE BESTAST EVER


The duke fans up here are pathetic. You are in denial - Duke wasn't a contender last year and they are even worse this year.

[Edited on November 26, 2005 at 11:38 AM. Reason : sdf]

11/26/2005 11:36:43 AM

Duke looks good but with the way they've been playing, we could beat them.

11/26/2005 11:48:02 AM

dont bother with skokiann. he hates duke too much to appreciate anything they ever are. he doesnt understand that returning players like demarcus nelson and everybody else improve from season to season. he doesnt understand that most teams that were great last year are not nearly as good

there is no wake like last year
there is no illinois
there is no unc
there is no gt
there is no lousiville
there is no arizona

only texas uconn then possibly nova and michigan state have the talent to match duke.

duke lost many games last year because when sheldon williams went out patrick johnson had to come in. duke now has 2 freshman who are worlds better than patrick johnson.

mcroberts fouled out and had trouble on defense because he was guarding a guard in a bigs body while shav almost always fouled out with no excuse. there are not many teams with guys like memphis. mcroberts will have a better time guarding true bigs, nelson can guard guys bigger than him.

11/26/2005 12:42:28 PM

Quote :

"Here's a hint: if you replace two better players with two worse players, what happens?"

You are a fucking idiot.

Duke loses Daniel Ewing. They gain Greg Paulus (a better ballhandler and passer than Ewing, although not as good a scorer. Sean Dockery with a another year of experience and improved offensive skills. Demarcus Nelson with another year of experience and improved offensive skills.

Duke loses Shavlik Randolph. Duke gains McRoberts...who is better than Randolph, bottom line.

Duke gets back two SENIOR ALL-AMERICANS. Can you not fucking understand that???

I HATE DUKE. But again, you are a fucking idiot if you don't think they've got a better chance than any team except maybe UConn (and maybe Mich. State) to win the National Championship.

11/26/2005 12:53:56 PM

skokiaan's FIRST POST:

Quote :

"McRoberts getting worked by a bunch of negros from Laurinburg. he's gonna destroy ced and brack, though. "

Now you're so adamant that Randolph is better than McRoberts...it's obvious that you haven't watched many Duke games when you say that. I've seen every Duke game since '86 when I was the guest on the bench...and it isn't just Duke that I watch either...ask NyM410 or one of the other CONTRIBUTERS to College Basketball Sports Talk...In 4 games McRoberts has already outdone Shavlik Randolph, and here is why since you are too unfamiliar with basketball and in particular the two players we are discussing...

1. McRoberts is 500% more aggressive around the goal than Randolph: the fact that he goes up strong and creates contact if he doesn't score or dunk on someone is a great indicator of interior potential. He scored 12 points last night on 6-9 shooting against a VERY ATHLETIC and deep team with lots of big bodies.

2. McRoberts is a better ball handler than Randolph: Shav never helped Duke bring the ball up the court like McRoberts did last night. He has great court vision as well which he exemplified in the McDonald's game, his first 3 games at Duke and his high school career, but the point here is that interior players aren't always passers! You are knocking a guy and saying he can't pass when 90% of the time when he catches the ball he is expected to make a move towards the basket in the post...

3. McRoberts is more athletic than Randolph: He has won every Dunk contest he has ever been in...Randolph on the other hand was replaced on the depth chart by Matt Christensen and Patrick Johnson at points in the year...when he WAS HEALTHY...

4. Randolph isn't smart on or off the court: if you know anyone who had classes with him at Duke or Broughton you would know that this kid isn't the brightest one in the bunch. On the court he consistently made horrible decisions with bad passes, turnovers, charges, and not going up strong in the paint. McRoberts on the other hand was a point guard before his growth spurt and does fairly well in the classroom.

5. McRoberts is also a better shooter than Randolph and takes higher percentage shots...

I grew up a Duke fan and now I pull for Duke and State...everyone on here knows that, but I also know that the only reason that Shav Randolph is on the roster of the Philly 76ers is because Billy King is the GM (a Duke great if you are too uninformed to know that)...it's pretty funny that someone who hates Duke actually thinks that Shav Randolph is better than Josh McRoberts after Randolph's underachieving 3 years at Duke...

11/26/2005 2:07:04 PM

Duke is duke but seems to me the SI cover wondering if anyone can stop duke is a bit exxagerated. The wont be better than last year but neither will we. Lets all just give the duke ball suckers a moment to breathe and get their breath back.

11/27/2005 5:12:28 AM

^Thanks for that useful information

11/27/2005 11:22:25 AM

skokiaan you better be watching this duke vs. indiana game to see how much of a moron you are for saying shav is better than mcroberts

[Edited on November 30, 2005 at 9:20 PM. Reason : paulus is playing great d and hit a tough shot already too...god he sucks]

11/30/2005 9:14:55 PM