Why do you think all kinds of diseases--including cancer, autism, diabetes, and heart disease--have exploded over the past few decades? And, at a time when we supposedly have the most advanced medical technology ever, and more people are taking prescription drugs than ever (the fraudulent medical and pharmaceutical industries are a whole other can of worms). We are now the most diseased people in all of history. It's not genetic. It has to be environmental factors, including all the chemicals in foods, drinks, water, and many other products.

Here's just a few examples of toxins in our environment: mercury in tooth fillings, mercury in vaccines, flouride (fluorosilicic acid & sodium fluoride) and chlorine in public water supplies, deadly aspartame in foods and beverages, formaldehyde and other toxins in personal care products. Then you have dangerous drugs like Ritalin being prescribed unnecessarily to millions of children. This only scratches the surface of what's going on. And it is not accidental. Everyone knows mercury and chlorine are poisonous, and the same fluoride (sodium fluoride) that is put into water supplies is used as the poison in rat poisons. The FDA knows that drugs like aspartame and ritalin are dangerous, yet they get approved. Often, chemicals and drugs are not even tested on humans for safety before being approved. We are being deliberatly poisoned.

Then, you have the food supply being further tampered with due to all the genetically modified and engineered food. Studies show that genetically modified food is harmful and can cause cancer and other problems. Why do you think so many elites like Prince Charles and other celebrities are "health nuts" and only eat organic food (non-genetically modified food with no added chemicals)? Do you think they know something we don't?

Past news:

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9611/18/aspartame/

Quote :

"Study suggests link between aspartame and brain cancer November 18, 1996 WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Several consumer groups renewed their criticism of aspartame Monday, citing a new study suggesting a possible link between the artificial sweetener and brain tumors. Aspartame is a low-calorie synthetic sweetener made up of two amino acids and methanol. It is sold under the brand names NutraSweet and Equal and is added to many food products as a sugar substitute."

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1504672,00.html

Quote :

"Fluoride water 'causes cancer' Boys at risk from bone tumours, shock research reveals Bob Woffinden Sunday June 12, 2005 The Observer Fluoride in tap water can cause bone cancer in boys, a disturbing new study indicates, although there is no evidence of a link for girls."

http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_23495.shtml

Quote :

"Fluoride Linked to Bone Cancer, Again August 4, 2005 Newly available research, out of Harvard University, links fluoride in tap water, at levels most Americans drink, to osteosarcoma, a rare form of bone cancer. The Environmental Working Group (EWG), a highly-regarded Washington DC-based organization, urges that fluoride in tap water be declared a known or probable cancer cause, based on this and previous animal and human studies."

http://i-newswire.com/pr36817.html

Quote :

"Aspartame Conclusively proven a carcinogen by new study in Italy (I-Newswire) - The Cancer Research Center of the European Foundation of Oncology and Environmental Sciences in Bologna, Italy reported this week that a long-term study to evaluate the potential carcinogenic effects of aspartame demonstrates the chemical sweetener "induces an increase in lymphomas and leukemias in female rats." The research will be presented at a September international scientific conference, "Framing the Future in the Light of the Past: Living in a Chemical World.""

http://www.organicconsumers.org/foodsafety/flouride090105.cfm

Quote :

"EPA Scientists & Workers Call for an End to Water Fluoridation Because of Cancer Risk [...] WASHINGTON, DC, August 30, 2005 --/WORLD-WIRE/-- Eleven EPA employee unions representing over 7000 environmental and public health professionals of the Civil Service have called for a moratorium on drinking water fluoridation programs across the country, and have asked EPA management to recognize fluoride as posing a serious risk of causing cancer in people. The unions acted following revelations of an apparent cover-up of evidence from Harvard School of Dental Medicine linking fluoridation with elevated risk of a fatal bone cancer in young boys."

MSG (Mono Sodium Glutamate) - Slowly Poisoning America
http://www.rense.com/general52/msg.htm

MSG has been found to be more toxic than all other food toxins, poisons and allergens
http://www.curezone.com/foods/msg.asp


Recent news:

http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/press/111605.html

Quote :

"New Study Suggests Artificial Sweetener Causes Cancer in Rats at Levels Currently Approved for Humans November 17, 2005 [Research Triangle Park, NC] ] A statistically significant increase in the incidence of malignant tumors, lymphomas and leukemias in rats exposed to varying doses of aspartame appears to link the artificial sweetener to a high carcinogenicity rate, according to a study accepted for publication today by the peer-reviewed journal Environmental Health Perspectives (EHP). The authors of the study, the first to demonstrate multipotential carcinogenic effects of aspartame administered to rats in feed, called for an "urgent reevaluation" of the current guidelines for the use and consumption of this compound. "Our study has shown that aspartame is a multipotential carcinogenic compound whose carcinogenic effects are also evident at a daily dose of 20 milligrams per kilogram of body weight (mg/kg), notably less than the current acceptable daily intake for humans," the authors write. Currently, the acceptable daily intake for humans is set at 50 mg/kg in the United States and 40 mg/kg in Europe."

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2005/12/04/the_secret_truth/

Quote :

"The Secret Truth By Dr. Darshak Sanghavi December 4, 2005 The Boston Globe Parents used to accept routine vaccinations for their children without a second thought. But as more parents weigh the benefits of vaccination against the possible risks, some are hesitating, even resisting, those shots, as doctors struggle to persuade them of their safety. At stake is the health of a nation. [...] On the Internet, Jared read about a possible connection between autism and a mercury-based vaccine preservative called thimerosal. Marjorie recalls: "One day I decided to look up their vaccination records. And I found out that both of them had had routine vaccinations two weeks before [the symptoms began]. And I became convinced that the vaccination is what, you know, the final straw - the trigger in the susceptible individual." Today, she says, she is "100 percent certain" that vaccines caused the autism."

The mass poisoning of humanity
http://www.newstarget.com/008511.html

Quote :

"Is it any wonder, with all of the poisoning going on at all the different levels in our bodies, that we are now the most chronically diseased population that has ever been recorded in the history of civilization? It's true -- there is no population that has suffered from diseases like we do in America today. You would have to be clinically insane to not think that there's a correlation between the poison we are putting into our bodies and the diseases we are getting as a result. Plus, as recent studies have shown, we're the #1 nation in the world in terms of mental disorders as well! Let's see: #1 in obesity, #1 in diabetes, #1 in cancer, #1 mental disorders, and we have the HIGHEST health care costs in the world, too. We have the most expensive drugs in the world. We have more doctors and health care professionals per capita than any country in the world."

[Edited on December 5, 2005 at 2:56 PM. Reason : `]

12/5/2005 2:49:51 PM

didn't some group just come out and say that TREES cause cancer?

12/5/2005 2:51:01 PM

I always thought we had more disease and stuff in the US because our population is living longer... That and fast food.

12/5/2005 2:54:50 PM

It's true. Diseases didn't exist prior to the creation of medicine.

12/5/2005 3:01:51 PM

At exactly what point did peanuts start killing people? Because that seems like a pretty recent thing.

12/5/2005 3:05:25 PM

so some crazy person is sure for no reason about their kids getting autism and it is worth bolding?

[Edited on December 5, 2005 at 3:06 PM. Reason : on the internet no less]

12/5/2005 3:06:21 PM

NOT NEW AND YOU ALREADY HAVE A THREAD ON THIS
NOT NEW AND YOU ALREADY HAVE A THREAD ON THIS
NOT NEW AND YOU ALREADY HAVE A THREAD ON THIS
NOT NEW AND YOU ALREADY HAVE A THREAD ON THIS
NOT NEW AND YOU ALREADY HAVE A THREAD ON THIS
NOT NEW AND YOU ALREADY HAVE A THREAD ON THIS
NOT NEW AND YOU ALREADY HAVE A THREAD ON THIS
NOT NEW AND YOU ALREADY HAVE A THREAD ON THIS

12/5/2005 3:06:58 PM

^ it would seem obvious to me that, with the amount of threads/theories he posts, he cant possibly keep track of all these ideas.

12/5/2005 3:09:16 PM

So is salisburyboy a scientologist?

12/5/2005 3:11:09 PM

Quote :

"NOT NEW AND YOU ALREADY HAVE A THREAD ON THIS"

What thread are you talking about? I'm not aware of any thread I made on this topic.

Quote :

"so some crazy person is sure for no reason about their kids getting autism and it is worth bolding?"

So, some poor woman who's had two children get autism believes that mercury (thimerosal) in the vaccines causes autism....and the best you can do is try to smear her and call her "crazy"? Hmmmm. That sort of childish name-calling (in the place of a real argument based on reason and facts) remind you of the "arguments" used against others who question the "official" story and position on certain issues? Like skeptics of the 9/11 official story? If you're going to argue that mercury in the vaccines is good, why don't you at least offer some real logic and reasoning to that argument. I thought mercury was poisonous. Are smear tactics all you have to offer?


[Edited on December 5, 2005 at 3:25 PM. Reason : `]

12/5/2005 3:11:49 PM

Quote :

""On no account will a Commie ever drink water, and not without good reason...Water is the source of all life. Seven tenths of this earth's surface is water. Why, you realize that seventy percent of you is water...And as human beings, you and I need fresh, pure water to replenish our precious bodily fluids... (Mandrake chuckles nervously) Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure grain alcohol?...Have you ever heard of a thing called fluoridation? Fluoridation of water?... fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face.""

12/5/2005 3:19:22 PM

from what you posted she reads that its possible, looks up the shot records and decides that that is the reason. as time goes on she furthers beleives that....no shit, if you continue beleiving something of course you are less likely to believe an alternate theory.

ill go read the article and see if im missing some huge piece that would make her "almost 100% sure" that this is the reason instead of some genetic phenomenon. i dont know enough about autism to say for sure and im sure she doesnt either.

added: Parents used to accept routine vaccinations for their children without a second thought. But as more parents weigh the benefits of vaccination against the possible risks, some are hesitating, even resisting, those shots, as doctors struggle to persuade them of their safety

Quote :

"consider discarded notions correlating cellphones with brain tumors, silicone breast implants with autoimmune disorders, and water fluoridation with bone cancer"

Quote :

"In 2004, the prestigious Institute of Medicine, the federal government's adviser on public health, reviewed dozens of such studies related to vaccines and autism and concluded the "evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism.""

Quote :

"n contrast to many massive studies from major academic centers that found no link, the only epidemiological studies favoring a link were one unpublished study from Mark Blaxill, a Massachusetts-based consultant and board member of an advocacy group called SafeMinds, and five separate published studies from the home-based father-son team of Dr. Mark Geier and David Geier - and these were all dismissed by the IOM as "uninformative" or "uninterpretable" due to poor methods. As far as mainstream scientists are concerned, the vaccine-autism question is settled."

[Edited on December 5, 2005 at 3:23 PM. Reason : ill add more as i read]

[Edited on December 5, 2005 at 3:39 PM. Reason : continuing reading, this article basically rejects your entire theory and some of the others as well]

12/5/2005 3:21:07 PM

Quote :

"Suspicious of any therapy lacking a "rational basis," Jared figured chelation was worth a try, given William's exposure to thimerosal and another practitioner's assertion that his son's urine had abnormal amounts of mercury. ... Still, no peer-reviewed study has ever shown that chelation helps anything other than acute lead poisoning, and could even be dangerous. In August, a 5-year-old autistic boy, Abubakar Nadama, died in Pennsylvania of cardiac arrest following a third round of chelation therapy from an alternative practitioner."

am i missing something with this quote? IT IS ALL TRIAL AND ERROR!!! yeah that vaccine caused my sons' autism but this potetnially dangerous therapy is cool with me even though hep b, mmr, etc vaccines arent.

Quote :

"But in spite of their intuitive appeal, personal anecdotes are also a crucible of quackery. Even hundreds of them don't add up to reliable data. The Hansens thus committed an ancient error by using their personal experience to link vaccines with their sons' autism. They transmuted a likely coincidence into truth."

Quote :

" Consider that almost 90 percent of children receive vaccines at 15 months of age, the same time that many cases of autism are diagnosed. Inevitably, many autistic children will be diagnosed immediately after receiving vaccines - and, like the Hansens, parents will suspect a causal connection."

this seemed the most obvious conclusion to me, but i wasnt sure when autism was usually diagnosed before now.

Quote :

"Once scientists have a suspicion about what causes a disease, they design experiments to prove or disprove their theory. Philosopher Karl Popper wrote that the defining characteristic of a scientific theory is "falsifiability." In other words, you must clearly define what could make you change your mind. This is the problem with some proponents of the vaccine-autism theory: No amount of data can falsify their belief."

that could be applied to many of your threads probably.

Quote :

"What this means is that no clinical trial, no matter how well-funded or well-designed, can ever prove a negative - it can only show that a possible cause-effect association is very, very unlikely. That is why it will always be impossible to eliminate the perceived link between thimerosal and autism."

this with others quotes (especially the above) is why i call her crazy. she's gonna beleive it no matter what b/c there's always a possibility.

Quote :

"If given the choice, many parents vote with their feet. In Britain, for example, vaccination is optional, and MMR immunization rates fell to 80 percent overall after the Wakefield report, and 62 percent in parts of London. According to the journal Science, measles began to spread twice as efficiently as before. In 1987, Japan allowed parents to decide whether their children should be vaccinated against several diseases, including measles. Many opted out, and now more than 100,000 cases of measles occur each year, with an estimated 50 to 100 deaths."

glad we can decide better than doctors huh?

Quote :

"Like the Hansens, many of us have a hard time being truly scientific and objective when our loved ones are involved. It's terribly hard to accept that the universe operates in random ways and that innocents may be harmed. What we choose to do with that sorrow is not always rational. We seek explanations, no matter how unlikely they may be. And who knows: If my sons were autistic, perhaps I, too, would have believed that something, maybe even vaccines, could have caused it."

NOT RANDOM, THE JEWS!!!! ad hominem, but funny to me none the less.





Do we as a society hype the potential dangers of not getting vaccinated? probably, but that doesnt mean that there isnt an equal or greater amount of anti-vaccine hype as well. most every mainstream study refutes the idea that these vaccines cause diseases. a couple of concerned/frustrated parents beleiving the alternative does not make it true. i would love you to explain all the above quotes, or did you just read the first page which contained the most unreliable source cited in the article?

12/5/2005 4:00:13 PM

so even though this discussion has been done...

could you point out which of those things implies deliberate?

12/5/2005 4:04:00 PM

the article i perused said that ppl see the false hyping of vaccines, see what they beleive to be evidence of them causing ailments, and then make the terrible assumption that there is a conspiracy behind it all.

the example was some congressman that implied a coverup after his son go autism and he read similar reports (when they were first coming out and before being disproved/backed up).

12/5/2005 5:34:51 PM

i have read lots of stuff about links
but nothing that implied they were doing it deliberately

12/5/2005 5:38:08 PM

im just saying, here's the crazy equation:

(hype for product) + (sketchy info that appears true against product) = coverup or conspiracy
conspiracy = deliberate
coverup = deliberate


IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THEY ARENT TRYING TO DO WHATS BEST FOR US. EVEN IF IT WAS BAD FOR US, THEY ARENT TRYING TO COVER THEIR ASSES FOR LETTING IT THROUGH, IT IS OBVIOUSLY THAT THEY WERE DOING IT ON PURPOSE TO KILL US AND/OR SUPPORT BIG DRUG BUSINESS.

[Edited on December 5, 2005 at 5:56 PM. Reason : it is just an irrational assumption and was shown that people overreact when it is personal]

12/5/2005 5:55:17 PM

people deliberately poison themselves with things that cause cancer and other diseases.

we don't need the government to help us.

not only that, but unless you rule out every other possible thing that could have caused these things, blaming the government/big business/whatever just seems like a convenient excuse to act victimized.

12/5/2005 7:11:15 PM

the bigger point is that even if it is their fault there is no reason to assume it was done on purpose

12/5/2005 7:12:34 PM

stop feeding the trolls

12/5/2005 7:27:07 PM

^^ wearing tin foil hats and constantly looking over your shoulder not reason enough?

12/5/2005 7:58:22 PM

Mercury-based thimerosal banned for used in vaccines in Iowa:

http://www.qctimes.net/articles/2005/12/06/news/local/doc43952975174bc251623528.txt

Quote :

"Vaccine additive banned in Iowa Wednesday, December 7, 2005 By Rachelle Treiber [...] But while some parents are leery of the pediatric flu vaccination — which can contain preservatives such as thimerosal, a mercury-based compound added to some vaccines — Iowans can rest easy. Earlier this year, the state became the first in the nation to ban the use of preservatives in childhood vaccines. In 1999, when it was discovered that immunized children had accidentally been exposed to mercury levels well over federal limits, the American Academy of Pediatrics called for thimerosal to be removed from vaccines as a precaution. It was eliminated from nearly all vaccines except the one used for the flu. Since the Iowa ban went in place during January, California has followed suit and more than 30 other states have similar bans under consideration. Illinois is among them. In August, Gov. Rod Blagojevich approved the Mercury-Free Vaccine Act. As of next year, the percentage of mercury used in vaccines will be limited. As of 2008, no Illinois resident will be vaccinated with a product containing mercury. “This was not an issue that we pushed. It was legislator-backed,” said Kevin Teale, communications director for the Iowa Department of Public Health. Former Iowa Sen. Ken Veenstra, R-Orange City, oversaw an investigation that led to the ban. Veenstra, who was chairman of the Senate Human Resources Committee, said at the time that he combed through all of the available scientific and biological data before backing the prohibition. “After three years of review, I became convinced there was sufficient credible research to show a link between mercury and the increased incidences in autism,” he said. “Iowa’s 700 percent increase in autism that began in the 1990s, right after more and more vaccines were added to the children’s vaccine schedules, is solid evidence alone.” Many parents and medical experts agree, arguing that mercury exposure is at the core of a number of serious medical disorders, ranging from childhood autism to Alzheimer’s disease. Much of their anger is aimed at thimerosal."

12/7/2005 11:13:41 AM

So is the state of Iowa not a part of the New World Order?

12/7/2005 11:16:57 AM

maybe they're not a part of humanity

12/7/2005 1:31:07 PM

THAT PROVES IT

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 1:55 PM. Reason : oh wait actually it doesnt at all do anything]

12/7/2005 1:55:31 PM

NO! IT PROVES THAT MERCURY IS GOOD FOR YOU!! IT'S NUTRICIOUS. THE GOVERNMENT SAID SO. SO GO PUT MERCURY IN YOUR FOOD, DRINKS, AND YOUR VACCINES. I THINK I'M GONNA GO HOME AND DRINK A TALL GLASS OF MERCURY TONIGHT.

12/7/2005 2:03:00 PM

Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning Deliberate Mass Poisoning

NONE OF THOSE DEAL WITH THAT PART

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 2:08 PM. Reason : god damn idiot]

12/7/2005 2:08:15 PM

How many red pills do you eat every day? I'm pretty sure that they aren't good for you.

12/7/2005 2:09:08 PM

god damn idiot

12/7/2005 2:10:42 PM

god damn idiot

12/7/2005 2:11:05 PM

What, nothing about contrails? I'm disappointed...

12/7/2005 7:15:29 PM

im confused how the article from Dec 4th this year says completely opposite of what your Dec 7th article would imply.

basically it says that it doesnt cause autism, but it may cause something so we'll pull it anyway. that is unless there have been a number of conclusive studies since 2004 when the gov't said that there seemed to be no link from non-crazy scientists.

12/7/2005 7:25:14 PM

40 years later and they still cite Dr. Strangelove as fact, lol

12/7/2005 9:07:29 PM

you stay away from my precious bodily fluids

12/7/2005 9:31:17 PM

ahahaha, lol

I drink lots of water!

12/7/2005 9:48:09 PM

ttt

12/8/2005 9:57:53 AM

No vaccines, no autism:

http://www.upi.com/ConsumerHealthDaily/view.php?StoryID=20051204-060313-6829r

Quote :

"The Age of Autism: 'A pretty big secret' By DAN OLMSTED UPI Senior Editor CHICAGO, Dec. 7 (UPI) -- It's a far piece from the horse-and-buggies of Lancaster County, Pa., to the cars and freeways of Cook County, Ill. But thousands of children cared for by Homefirst Health Services in metropolitan Chicago have at least two things in common with thousands of Amish children in rural Lancaster: They have never been vaccinated. And they don't have autism. "We have a fairly large practice. We have about 30,000 or 35,000 children that we've taken care of over the years, and I don't think we have a single case of autism in children delivered by us who never received vaccines," said Dr. Mayer Eisenstein, Homefirst's medical director who founded the practice in 1973. Homefirst doctors have delivered more than 15,000 babies at home, and thousands of them have never been vaccinated. [...] The autism rate in Illinois public schools is 38 per 10,000, according to state Education Department data; the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention puts the national rate of autism spectrum disorders at 1 in 166 -- 60 per 10,000. "

12/12/2005 10:16:52 AM

correlation != causation

12/12/2005 10:25:18 AM

correlation != causation

12/12/2005 10:32:53 AM

Quote :

""We have a fairly large practice. We have about 30,000 or 35,000 children that we've taken care of over the years, and I don't think we have a single case of autism in children delivered by us who never received vaccines," said Dr. Mayer Eisenstein, Homefirst's medical director who founded the practice in 1973."

JEW?

12/12/2005 11:11:54 AM

London PM pushes to have aspartame banned:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.html?in_article_id=371717&in_page_id=1774

Quote :

"Cancer fears over sweetener in food London Daily Mail PAUL MATTHEWS December 16 2005 An artificial sweetener found in 6,000 types of food, drink and medicines should be banned, an MP urged last night. Politicians were warned of 'compelling and reliable' evidence that aspartame can cause cancer. The controversial additive is found in a huge number of popular products such as cola, cereal and chocolate. Roger Williams, a member of the parliamentary select committee on food and the environment and Liberal Democrat MP, said any items containing aspartame should be withdrawn from sale. His comments came after research published by the European Ramazzini Foundation in Italy over the summer linked aspartame to cancer in rats. Leading scientists last night joined Mr Williams in calling for products containing it to be taken off the shelves. "There is strong scientific evidence that the components of aspartame and their metabolites can cause very serious toxic effects on humans," Mr Williams said. Aspartame is also found in chewing gum, yoghurt, and coffee sweetener. "

[Edited on December 16, 2005 at 8:56 AM. Reason : `]

12/16/2005 8:55:14 AM

Quote :

"So, some poor woman who's had two children get autism "

You don't "get" autism, you stupid fuck. You are born with it.

12/16/2005 1:15:22 PM

Quote :

"You don't "get" autism, you stupid fuck. You are born with it."

Well, that's exactly where I disagree. I believe that environmental factors, including mercury-based chemicals in vaccines, may be the cause of autism. I posted an article above that discusses how Amish communities have virtually no incidences of autism because most Amish children do not take vaccinations.

12/16/2005 2:13:09 PM

Show me sources from something other than USA Today, CNN (whose health-related stories I've always taken with a large grain of salt anyway) or some small-time pulp rag with an agenda to push, and perhaps I'll take it seriously.

12/16/2005 2:15:17 PM

http://www.upi.com/ConsumerHealthDaily/view.php?StoryID=20051204-060313-6829r

12/16/2005 2:16:16 PM

^ Why don't you go ahead and list what sources are acceptable to you since you pretty much ruled out mainstream media.

I mean, I know you're going to reply with some "science journal" bullshit knowing full well that nobody is going to pay the subscription to search such said things but damn dude.

12/16/2005 2:17:37 PM

I'll do that when salisburyboy finally decides to actually defend his garbage instead of just throwing links out there and saying "read this!"

Just sayin'.

12/16/2005 2:22:59 PM

please explain the deliberate part

12/16/2005 2:25:14 PM

Quote :

"I'll do that when salisburyboy finally decides to actually defend his garbage instead of just throwing links out there and saying "read this!""

YOU asked me just 5 posts up to show you a source, and I did. And now you're criticizing me for doing what you asked? Are you even going to read the article? If not, why ask for it?

And it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that I don't defend my claims. I'm doing that constantly around here. It sounds like you're parrotting some nonsense Mr. Joshua said.

12/16/2005 2:39:37 PM

im asking for a source too
could you show the deliberate part, or short of a source at least explain the reasoning

12/16/2005 2:41:10 PM