http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/12/18/in_computer_science_a_growing_gender_gap/



Article is a bit long to post. Of the three female undergrads at the departmental graduation last week I'm not sure I had even seen any of them before.

[Edited on December 19, 2005 at 5:41 PM. Reason : asdf]

12/19/2005 5:33:53 PM

i give this thread a 1 out of 10

12/19/2005 5:35:39 PM

fuck you dan

12/19/2005 5:36:32 PM

i've got to register to read the rest of the article

fuck that

12/19/2005 5:37:21 PM

bugmenot.com

12/19/2005 5:44:36 PM

http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=182717

12/19/2005 6:10:15 PM

There is research going on at a number of institutes at a number of levels to discover why both women and minorities tend not to stay in the field. They are starting as young as middle school and tracking them through high school/college.

Not exactly new, but interseting to point out nonetheless.

[Edited on December 19, 2005 at 6:40 PM. Reason : .]

12/19/2005 6:38:58 PM

there was a girl in my java class that was kinda cute

12/19/2005 7:13:58 PM

Logic is of some importance in CS, right?

12/19/2005 7:20:21 PM

^just a little

[Edited on December 19, 2005 at 8:12 PM. Reason : fuck noes]

12/19/2005 8:11:47 PM

It's true, NCSU used to 10% females in CSC, last check it was 4%.

12/19/2005 8:38:30 PM

there was a girl in my java class that was kinda 300+ pounds

12/19/2005 8:39:37 PM

Pardon my intellectual arrogance, but this article is idiotic.

Quote :

"''These people would just sit in the front of the class and ask these complicated questions. I had no idea what they were talking about"

Sounds like she took an advanced class, and was over her head. It happens, and there's nothing wrong with this. I would have said the same thing if I sat in NE 401 as a freshman. Perhaps she should have considered dropping it, and taking the courses in the usual sequence.

Quote :

"Introductory classes zeroed in on programming and other technical aspects of the field, rather than explaining big ideas or talking about how computing can impact society, many professors say"

Introductory classes in any science discuss technical aspects. It's not that the influence of technology isn't an important or interesting field of study, it's simply not the subject matter of an entire CSC class.

They do bring up a good point later in the article, however. It is important to teach problem solving skills. Unfortunately, I felt like the tone of the article was like the Barbie a few years back that said "Math is hard!" It seemed to express genuine suprise that technical points were brought up in what is not surpisingly a technical curriculum. Frankly, I'm not sure what needs to be done to get more women in engineering. Making it more cuddly is not the answer.

12/19/2005 8:46:01 PM

Quote :

"These people would just sit in the front of the class and ask these complicated questions. I had no idea what they were talking about"

There are at least 2 or 3 know-it-alls in every 200 or lower level CSC class, just part of the territory

12/19/2005 8:48:47 PM

hell it doesn't stop at 200

12/19/2005 9:15:47 PM

i knew one of the girls

12/19/2005 11:31:37 PM

There seems to be a gap in most engineering disciplines

12/19/2005 11:37:47 PM

Quote :

"There is research going on at a number of institutes at a number of levels to discover why both women and minorities tend not to stay in the field. "

Newsflash: Women don't want to put up with CSC majors.

12/19/2005 11:50:51 PM

no shameless WICS plugs yet?

12/20/2005 1:52:38 AM

hahaaha WICS HAhahaaha

I knew pretty much every english speaking girl in computer science when I was in undergrad. Most were fairly attractive, and fairly normal. The few I actually hung out with were definitely attractive and still are

12/20/2005 4:58:16 AM

Quote :

"Frankly, I'm not sure what needs to be done to get more women in engineering."

Frankly, I'm not sure why something needs to be done to get more women in engineering. If they don't want to do it, then why go to great lengths to make sure they do want to do it? Seriously.

Maybe the gender equality push from several decades ago convinced some women to persue a career that they wouldn't have otherwise chosen. I'm not saying that women can't do what men can, I'm saying that maybe women don't want to do what men want to do. There is a difference between genders. Maybe the "anything you can do I can do better" mentality is starting to get replaced with a "what, do that boring crap?" mentality.

12/20/2005 8:10:52 AM

its probably because women and minorites arent as smart as white males

12/20/2005 9:30:35 AM

It may not necessarily be that white males are more intellectual, but rather that females and minorities are more susceptible to peer pressure as well as stereotypical icons in the media. Sadly enough, a majority of women want to be like the most beautiful girl in the business, like a Jessica Simpson or Brittney Spears, or some nasty whore like Paris Hilton. As an example, a large portion of the black minority fill the stereotype of the gangster rapper, even though the rapper is hardly living in the cruel world and is pulling a profit over the actual suffering of "his people", whom he claims he is a part of and is trying to help, but is ultimately making it worse.

It would also seem to go hand in hand that women and minorities are also more emotionally inept. Many people a a minority exploit their heritage to justify anger or hatred they hold for someone and thus usually make what would seem like stupid decisions since rage overpowers thought. As for women, they claim that they connect to people emotionally, but in fact the actual proof being that they require visual proof that the emotion exists. If there is no visual proof such as gifts, accompaniment, or just some "feeling" that they themselves don't even know, then there must not be emotion in the relationship. But males are different in that they don't need visual proof to know if emotion exists. They know just by feeling alone. If a guy enjoys the girls company and they share a more intimate relationship beyond your standard friendship, then a male knows that emotion exists. When a relationship ends, if the man didn't initiate the breakup, many time he becomes emotionally distraught. This would explain the reason as to why White males have the highest suicide rate. It is because he knows that a strong emotion exists, but his significant other couldn't realize that it was there without constant reassurance that it made the man breakdown and think it was over and believe it was all over. This is also how you end up with many guys clinging to the one girl they connected to the most, even after the girl stomps on them, and cheats on them, and breaks up with them on numerous occasions.

Now, if your confused, thats natural, I might be as well. To put it simply, it's really all based on the media. Hollywood is a major factor in peoples decisions these days and the majority of these people that are affected by Hollywood are females, minorities, and morons. Im not saying that females and minorities are morons, it's just that they are more confused then they think and don't realize they are being misled. White males who follow Hollywood are morons, there is no other way to put it. If you follow Hollywood, you're gonna miss out on what is really important in your life and what really matters to you. You'll pass up on potentially good ideas for moronic ones. Don't be caddle herding from one location to the next until you reach the slaughterhouse.

(If by chance you are offended by this post, I apologize for that was not my attention. This is merely an opinion and a generalization based off of the media's stereotypical influence on the unsuspecting public. It's sad to admit that at times, it is true.)

12/20/2005 10:38:53 AM

why does it matter about a gender gap. the girls that would go into computer science i ahve a feeling are not the kind of girls i would be interested in anyway.

granted i'm sure their is an exception to the rule

[Edited on December 20, 2005 at 11:00 AM. Reason : l]

12/20/2005 11:00:25 AM

^^
I would like some factual sources on any one of those statements. I realize its an opinion, but it really has no merit to it without some proof of evidence behind it. Sorry, but opinions just don't cut if you are trying to convince the people with $$$ to agree/disagree with you.

^
The gap matters so to speak because of the need for diversity in the workforce. Diversity has been shown in numerous instances to help increase workplace productivity (for the people) and increase profits (for the company). I'll reference a study or two somewhere when I get off work.

12/20/2005 1:19:15 PM

I actually was thinking my information was common sense, but here are a few references:

About the suicide rates, it is the eigth leading cause of death of men in the U.S. and males are 4 times more likely to die from suicide then females. An interesting fact though is that women report attempting suicide during their life time about 3 times as much as men. Suicide rates are highest among whites and second highest among American Indian and Native Alaskan men. Heres a site for this:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/suifacts.htm

Theres also several more sites on the subject, do a little searching and you'll find that some actually tie in religion into it, guess which religion has the highest suicide rate, heres a hint, its not Catholic or Jewish.

As far as the reason for Suicide, there are many theories but no real answers. My theory I put backing on is an emotional breakdown caused by stress of somekind. Whether it be loss of a loved one, loss of mobility, constant ridicule, or some other aspect. Either way, something happens to just cause so much stress that the person feels that the only way to alleviate it is to commit suicide. Again this is the theory I think is most accurate, if not the actual reason.

As for people following Stereotypes, I can probably search the web for various sites supporting my opinion, but it's better to just look at society itself as it paints a much broader picture. In all reality, it would seem that the majority of people whether male or female, white or a minority, all give in to stereotypical icons. Like I said we all want to be like our Hollywood idols, and why not, many are rich, famous, and loved by many. I remember when going through public school, if you didn't follow a fad, you were either ignored, ridiculed, or shunned. Many students didn't care, but others made a big deal about it. It is this peer pressure that continues to make it hard to just be ourselves instead of what we see and hear on TV. By giving into the stereotypes, we end up distracting ourselves from whats really important. Instead of focusing our minds on our schoolwork, our activities, or our families, we focus a lot more attention on what kind of rims we have on our car, how much "bling" we have around our necks, and what styles are available from Abercrombie and Fitch. We needlessly spend money on things that are hardly important in life and for what, so we can look nice? Who decided that buying these things made you look cool or attractive? Hollywood, that's who. Humans have a constant need of wanting to fit in. Ironically, the human race is capable of manipulating the environment to better suit their needs instead of having to adapt to nature, but socially, we have to change ourselves to be able to adapt with the rest of the world. We crave acceptance, this is why we give into peer pressure and stereotypes. To put it simply, we want to be liked.

Minorities in general are more susceptible to stereotypes by two reasons. First, the majority of stereotypes are about minorities, plain and simple. Second, many want to retain their culture, but are misled into thinking that what they see and hear other people of their group do is how they are supposed to act, as a culture. Several derogatory terms have been created within the minorities to say that if a person is not acting like the rest of their culture, then they are being someone else. Most common responses is when someone of a minority is said to be acting like a white person. For African-Americans, the derogatory term is "Oreo" (black on the outside, white on the inside), "bannana" or "twinkie" for asians, and "apple" for Native Americans. This stems from the people "Acting white", which is "from the epithet applied by some blacks to high achieving blacks, refers to betraying one's color by cooperating with the expectations of mainstream white society by such things as doing well academically, dressing neatly or conservatively, and refraining from relentless blaming of whites for low black economic status." (Quoted source courtesy of Wikipedia, under the search for Oreo). In general, they see that trying to do well academically means that the person is being white, instead of being the "race" that they are. Heres the link to the Wikipedia source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oreo

Now the difference between men and women is substantial, just read this for a few laughs and see that it just makes sense at times (Although I disagree with the mistakes part, in my experience, I've never gotten a woman to admit a mistake):
http://www.optics.rochester.edu/users/beversmr/pages/menvswomen.html
Now, I believe it mainly stems from how the two think. What I stated before was pretty much just a theory, but from a study that was held in my room-mates psychology course (sorry, i can't give hard evidence), it showed that women and men think differently. Each person, male and female were given a test. They were shown and object and then shown 4 other objects that looked similar to the original object, but only one of the other 4 was the actual object, just viewed at a different angle. Of around 30 objects tested, men scored higher while women scored much lower. The reason was that when the women saw the object, they thought the other 4 were completely different objects, they had a lot of trouble deciding on which ones were the same, I forgot the actual term for the process of thinking, but to put it simply, it's a form of logical thought. Women saw completely different objects while the men were able to rotate the object in their mind. Just based on my own train of thought, I would have looked at every subtle change in the object instead looking at it as a whole. Computer Science requires a large amount of logical thinking and requires a lot mathematical courses, and pretty much every woman I've met, except for a select few, hated math. For me, I love math, but maybe that's because I don't try to get it, I just do it. Many ask how a formula works, but I don't really care, I just know that if it works, then it works, it's as simple as that. After using it enough times with repetitive problem solving, I eventually understand how it works. I end up learning it gradually instead of trying to jam the exact physics of the problem in my mind all at once.

As I stated before, a lot of this is my opinion and if I offended anyone, I apologize for it was not my intention. Whether you agree with my opinion is up to you. I'm not saying my opinion is law but just offering it for you to read and see whether or not you agree with some, all, or none of it.

12/20/2005 4:38:24 PM

It shows women are smart.

All those jobs are going to India and China.

12/20/2005 11:15:17 PM

^^
You have good thoughtful opinion commentary. Don't necessarily agree with it, but its fairly persuasive in and of itself. Still not seeing any good solid evidence/studies/logical conclusions though.

[Edited on December 21, 2005 at 5:33 AM. Reason : .]

12/21/2005 5:33:08 AM