http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/24/domestic.spying.ap/index.html

When I'm back from a party, I'd like a link please. Although depending on the severity of the party (I'm in Moscow after all) I may wait till tomorrow to ckeck back in.

12/24/2005 8:53:59 AM

haha watch the chechens blow ur shit out

12/24/2005 9:04:16 AM

uhh, it's good because it has the potential to stop attacks like 9-11 from happening

OH WAIT THAT'S A BAD THING NEVERMIND

12/24/2005 10:45:00 AM

god you know the liberals would stain their panties if our nation got attacked again by terrorists

it would truly be their moment

but they'd fuck it up. they always do.

12/24/2005 10:47:38 AM

^ wouldnt libertarians be extremely opposed to the big government spying on people.

this makes no damn sense anymore.

12/24/2005 11:57:12 AM

Clearly if Bush was violating the law by not seeking warrants--as is alleged--then there is no justification for this. Ironically, he would be guilty of violating his own Patriot Act.

Beyond that, I am not particularly opposed to domestic spying--it's a "when" and not "if" proposition. It's part of the normal course of law enforcement, especially where terrorism is concerned. The NSA has been doing domestic surveillance for years anyway; I remember when they were lambasted for the Echelon boondoggle back in the '90s under Clinton.

The difference with Bush seems to be that, where the domestic spying issue is concerned, he asserts it as his authoritative right. He wants to be recognized as having basically unlimited wartime power.

He has it already, obviously -- by fiat. From a PR perspective, it doesn't make sense for him to assert it further like this; it squarely violates the old adage about walking softly and carrying a big stick. People tend to resent absolute power in this country, even Republicans.

12/24/2005 12:23:12 PM

I was wondering how long it would take Oleg to create a new thread about me, I was starting to feel unloved

Too bad the whole thing's a strawman though...

12/24/2005 2:24:01 PM

Flatly false. The Clinton administration program, code-named Echelon, complied with FISA. Before any conversations of U.S. persons were targeted, a FISA warrant was obtained.

12/24/2005 2:52:59 PM

^

Yes, according to George "Slam Dunk" Tenet. Good going, there.

12/24/2005 4:17:07 PM

Moscow in the house!

12/24/2005 4:25:15 PM

IN SOVIET RUSSIA, ALCOHOL DRINKS YOU!

12/24/2005 4:28:11 PM

Quote :

"Flatly false. The Clinton administration program, code-named Echelon, complied with FISA. Before any conversations of U.S. persons were targeted, a FISA warrant was obtained."

Nothing could be further from the truth. Might want to read up on the Hanssen investigation

12/24/2005 4:49:22 PM

turns out, CLINTON DIDN'T DO IT. He did alot of nasty shit, but apparently, not this:

*ahem*

Here's what clinton signed
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/20/drudge-fact-check/

Quote :

"Section 1. Pursuant to section 302(a)(1) [50 U.S.C. 1822(a)] of the [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance] Act, the Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order, to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year, if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that section."

if and only if the AG followed section 302(a)(1). What does section 1822(a) require?

* the "physical search is solely directed at premises, information, material, or property used exclusively by, or under the open and exclusive control of, a foreign power or powers." Translation: You can't search American citizens.
* and there is "no substantial likelihood that the physical search will involve the premises, information, material, or property of a United States person." Translation: You can't search American citizens.

Moreover, Clinton's warrant waiver consistent with FISA refers only to physical searches. "Physical searches," as defined by 1821(5), exclude electronic surveillance.

carter:
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo12139.htm

Quote :

"1-101. Pursuant to Section 102(a)(1) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1802(a)), the Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order, but only if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that Section."

Carter limits the warrantless surveillance to the requirements of Section 1802(a). That section requires:

* the electronic surveillance is solely directed at communications exclusively between or among foreign powers. Translation: You can't spy on American citizens.
* there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party. Translation: You can't spy on American citizens.

Section 1803(a)(2) requires that the Attorney General report to Congress (specifically, the House and Senate Intelligence Committees) about whether any American citizens were involved, what minimization procedures were undertaken to avoid it and protect their identities, and whether his actions comply with the law.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/21/8157/6595

12/24/2005 5:57:27 PM

Quote :

"Yes, according to George "Slam Dunk" Tenet. Good going, there."

CIA director is now not a trustworthy source? I thought you considered him pretty trustworthy when you needed his words to justify the invasion to Iraq.

Quote :

"I was wondering how long it would take Oleg to create a new thread about me, I was starting to feel unloved"

Here's how it works. Once you establish yourself as a quintessential cocksucker, you can pretty much count on your name popping up in every situation related to cocksucking.

12/25/2005 4:14:53 AM

^
That appellation means so much more coming from TWW's resident expert, thx u Best Christmas present evar

oh btw glad to see you still live up to your title too


[Edited on December 25, 2005 at 11:16 AM. Reason : ]

12/25/2005 11:13:25 AM

Who said anything about it having to mean a lot to you? I've never heard of a self-conscious whore. I doubt you'd be an exception.

12/25/2005 12:26:16 PM

12/25/2005 12:36:06 PM

What does this picture even mean?

12/25/2005 12:38:22 PM

Quote :

"I thought you considered him pretty trustworthy when you needed his words to justify the invasion to Iraq."

Me to Gamecat: I thought you considered him pretty untrustworthy when you needed his words to justify claiming the war was a farce.

Sorry, just pointing out blatant hypocrisy when I see it. I don't mind Tenet so much myself, but neither do I trust any public testimony about what the NSA is doing on a given day. Just by its very nature, there's no way to verify what's said.

And, after all, we now know that Tenet is a career liar in league with other career liars like Dubya, so we can't use his words anymore.

12/25/2005 1:28:01 PM