yeah, how bout em?

1/1/2006 5:42:30 PM

vick is teh greatest...people who don't acknowledge that obviously don't know anything about football...it's not about stats it's about athletic ability and wins...

haha...carolina 2-0 against vick this year...

1/1/2006 5:44:15 PM

Dude, Vick had a pretty good year. After all, he led his horrible team to an 8-8 record. That is incredible. It isn't his fault the Falcons did not make the playoffs.






....... he just gets the credit when they do make the playoffs.

1/1/2006 6:17:22 PM

where are Lil G and MacGyver to tell us how great the Falcons are, but never fret next week we will get to see how good Vick is at studio guest for pregame shows.

1/1/2006 7:03:43 PM

Quote :

"vick is teh greatest"

See now you're just changing the argument....


The Vick supporters never said he was the greatest... we said he was top 5 coming into the season.


Now its obvious Palmer has emerged... and now that Hasslebeck's receivers are actually catching the ball its becoming clear he's a pretty effective too.


However, McNabb and Culpepper were exposed this season...

So it's pretty clear Vick is still the ~5th best QB in the league...

1/1/2006 7:08:03 PM

id start schwaub over vick everyday of the week.

1/1/2006 7:32:41 PM

Quote :

"However, McNabb and Culpepper were exposed injured this season..."

Uh, Mcnabb had more TDs in the 9 games he participated in. One more than Vick has the entire season, not to mention a better rating. Oh, and when has Vick taken the Falcons to the Super Bowl?

1/1/2006 7:33:47 PM

i want to get some of that crack that rallydurham is smoking

1/1/2006 7:35:25 PM

God your arguments are so tired.


Are you really gonna say McNabb and Culpepper weren't bad when they played this season?

Come on for gods sake... give it up.


Perhaps they were injured.... if thats the case then they shouldnt have a problem being good next year.


McNabb was never considered an elite QB prior to getting Terrell Owens.

Culpepper has only played once without Randy Moss, and he looked awful.

Quote :

" id start schwaub over vick everyday of the week."

That's a good strategy if the object is to obtain a top ten draft pick.

1/1/2006 8:26:35 PM

how is mcnabb not an elite qb...how many times do you have to get your team to an nfc championship to be an elite qb. he didnt play well this year because he had a fucking sports hernia all year, no running game at all, and no wide receivers. im going to name all the qbs better than vick,you can disagree if you want... peyton manning, hasslebeck, palmer, mcnabb, delhomme, brees, plummer, brady in no particular order. Vick doesnt have shit on mcnabb, and never will until maybe he can actually get his team a winning record two years in a row.

1/1/2006 8:53:28 PM

Manning and Palmer without a doubt....

Brady far outplayed Vick this season.

Hasslebeck had a better season than Vick, I'll give you that.


Delhomme? Absolutely not. That's a slap in the face to the rest of the Panthers team to pretend Delhomme was integral to our success.

Brees? Come on, be serious. He doesn't even have a contract. Whens the last time a stud QB hit the market?

Plummer? He had a good season. Forgive me for not ignoring the previous ten.




Mcnabb? As long as your willing to admit he was bad this season, then I'm okay with going along with the fact that he was injured.

Now you just have to explain the five seasons he had prior to getting TO.

1/1/2006 9:07:48 PM

Brunnel is a better QB than Vick

1/1/2006 9:09:08 PM

lol


yeah, he was wonderful in Jacksonville the past five seasons.

1/1/2006 9:12:38 PM

you know who i do like?

Leftwich

1/1/2006 9:13:32 PM

Well I guess stats are meaningless then

1/1/2006 9:14:35 PM

i like Leftwich too.


Guess what.


Statisically, guys like Bledsoe dwarf him.


It doesnt change the fact that he's light years better than Bledsoe.

[Edited on January 1, 2006 at 9:21 PM. Reason : a]

1/1/2006 9:20:27 PM

Quote :

"Are you really gonna say McNabb and Culpepper weren't bad when they played this season? "

Are you fucking dense? I did not even mention Culpepper's name in my post. Of course he played awful, no one is arguing against that.

Now, are you really gonna say that Vick has done more to prove that he is a better QB than McNabb? If so, you are insane. And if McNabb played "bad" before he was injured, then Vick played like absolute shit the whole season.

1/1/2006 9:20:56 PM

okay, man suit yourself...


it's pretty interesting that a stiff like AJ Feely can go 5-0 on the Eagles...


but a backup QB like Schaub (that everyone is enamored with) is 0-3 with the Falcons.


AM I fucking dense? Gee, I dont know... since you did in fact mention Culpepper in your post.

Quote :

"However, McNabb and Culpepper were injured this season..."

Selective memory?

That's not gonna come in handy on a message board where your previous posts are easily available.

[Edited on January 1, 2006 at 9:24 PM. Reason : a]

1/1/2006 9:22:24 PM

ok rally, ill explain the 5 seasons before TO, how about getting to three straight nfc championships before TO... im sure that had nothing to do with mcnabb. How about 2000 and 20001, more than 20 tds, less than 15 ints, each year. hes been great since his 2nd year in the league, and you cant deny that he is an elite qb, and TO has nothing to do with Mcnabb's success. Mcnabb is better than vick,there is no comparison. Hes a leader, a great qb, and oh yea he can run pretty well too.

1/1/2006 10:04:12 PM

McNabb is clearly better than Vick. Is that even a question? Are you fucking retarded RallyDurham? Or are you just trying to troll like MacGyver?

1/1/2006 10:10:01 PM

Then why did AJ Feely go 5-0 as a starter in Philadelphia.


Why did the Eagles have an average offense for all those seasons?


Why despite consistenly having one of the top defenses in the NFC did Philly get blown out every year?


It's because McNabb was the face of the franchise, not the key to its success.


You are really late on this... I disposed of this whole McNabb facade a few months ago



I'm not trying to troll shit. McNabb and Vick are very simliar. They are both inaccurate passers and they are both running QB's. They are both good QB's that win a lot of games.

Vick had a better season than McNabb, obviously...

But McNabb did have some injuries to contend with and the fiasco with the Eagles management is a viable excuse too....

So next season, we'll see if McNabb can put to rest all of his doubters and become this elite QB that a select few people believe he is...

[Edited on January 1, 2006 at 10:14 PM. Reason : a]

1/1/2006 10:12:14 PM

fag

1/1/2006 10:20:59 PM

Quote :

"AM I fucking dense? Gee, I dont know... since you did in fact mention Culpepper in your post."

Sorry, I had no idea that quoting what you said then changing one word = mentioning Culpepper. Grow up. I only talked about McNabb.

Why did the Eagles consistently make it to the NFC title game and then the superbowl, in four years? Are his 4 pro bowl selections just flukes?

Sure, they are similar in that they can both run. However, Vick is a better runner (of course) and McNabb is a better passer. Surely you do not disagree with that.

Just give it up, there is no way you can argue that Vick is a better QB than McNabb.

1/1/2006 10:49:14 PM

Quote :

"I'm not trying to troll shit. McNabb and Vick are very simliar. They are both inaccurate passers and they are both running QB's."

McNabb is actually a very accurate passer. His vision was probably the culprit in his first few years. Since he got lasik surgery 2 years ago he has completed well over 60% of his passes.

[Edited on January 1, 2006 at 10:52 PM. Reason : 2]

1/1/2006 10:51:59 PM

Vick is so fucking overrated. At this rate we're going to have another Dan Marino or Barry Sanders.

1/1/2006 10:54:17 PM

vick can't get it done through the air, as shown today.

1/1/2006 10:55:21 PM

I am a proclaimed Vick hater, but in his defense today there were A LOT of drops by falcons recievers. I think we hit them in the mouth early and they were punch drunk all day.

1/1/2006 11:39:01 PM

Quote :

"So it's pretty clear Vick is still the ~5th best QB in the league..."

BULLSHIT


I would list the QB's that are better and tell why, but last time I did that, you pretty much said "yeah, right. you are wrong on all of those," ignoring all facts and reason.

[Edited on January 1, 2006 at 11:51 PM. Reason : bdsh]

1/1/2006 11:43:00 PM

Quote :

"Then why did AJ Feely go 5-0 as a starter in Philadelphia."

He didn't. He went 4-1 in 2002.

Against:

5-7 Rams team (without Bulger).
4-9 Seahawks team.
5-9 Redskins team.
5-10 Cowboys team.

They lost to the Giants in overtime. The Giants were 10-6 -- though this was still during the days of Tiki "I FUMBLE THE BALL EVERY DOWN NO MATTER WHAT" Barber.

So, just going out on a limb here, but maybe he won those games because the other teams sucked?

Same way Vick is getting wins this year.

As far as accuracy is concerned, McNabb is a career 58.4% passer over 94 career games. Vick is 53.9% over 57 career games.

[Edited on January 2, 2006 at 12:08 AM. Reason : .]

1/2/2006 12:07:59 AM

Chris Weinke CAR 118.2
Jay Fiedler NYJ 113.3
Jeff Blake CHI 112.5
Peyton Manning IND 104.3
Jim Sorgi IND 103.8
Ben Roethlisberger PIT 103.4
Carson Palmer CIN 101.4
Matt Hasselbeck SEA 98.1
Patrick Ramsey WAS 95.3
Marc Bulger STL 94.4
Tom Brady NE 93.0
Kelly Holcomb BUF 92.9
Matt Schaub ATL 92.4
Jake Plummer DEN 90.2
Byron Leftwich JAC 89.3
Drew Brees SD 89.2
Trent Green KC 87.8
Mark Brunell WAS 87.8
Brad Johnson MIN 134 87.0
Drew Bledsoe DAL 86.3
Jake Delhomme CAR 86.2
Jamie Martin STL 86.0
Jon Kitna CIN 85.8
Kurt Warner ARI 85.8
Donovan McNabb PHI 85.0
David Garrard JAC 83.5
Seneca Wallace SEA 82.8
Steve McNair TEN 82.4
Sage Rosenfels MIA 81.5
Charlie Batch PIT 81.5
Chris Simms TB 80.4
Brian Griese TB 79.6
Kliff Kingsbury NYJ 79.2
David Carr HOU 78.2
Kyle Boller BAL 77.4
John Navarre ARI 77.4
Kerry Collins OAK 77.3
Trent Dilfer CLE 76.9
Matt Mauck TEN 76.1
Eli Manning NYG 75.9
Michael Vick ATL 74.1

Every QB mentioned in this thread, except Culpepper (72) had a higher QB rating than Vick (74.1)

Vick had one of the lowest QB ratings for ANY starter in the NFL...and the Falcons DIDN'T make the playoffs...what is the argument now? They didn't win despite his stats...and his stats blow...

[Edited on January 2, 2006 at 12:23 AM. Reason : /]

1/2/2006 12:21:55 AM

Quote :

"Chris Weinke CAR 118.2 "

WEINKE FOR MVP!!!

I actually agree with Rally in that Vick is a top 5 QB and has NOTHING to work with. His starting recievers are Roddy White and Michael Jenkins, both young unprovens guys.

1/2/2006 12:25:46 AM

McNabb put up consistently better numbers with Freddy Bitchell, Todd Stinkston, James Trash, and no running game to speak of.

[Edited on January 2, 2006 at 12:28 AM. Reason : and Alge Crumpler > LJ Smith]

1/2/2006 12:27:50 AM

Quote :

"Are his 4 pro bowl selections just flukes? "

Vick has been a Pro Bowler the last 3 years running. Are those flukes? Look at who votes for it. Players and coaches. They know more than stupid TWWers.

1/2/2006 12:29:18 AM

true. vick can't carry the team.

1/2/2006 12:31:19 AM

BUT VICK CAN GET ALL THE CREDIT FOR THE WINS, FUCK THE OTHER 52 GUYS


YET SOMEHOW, WHEN THEY LOSE, IT'S ONE OF THE FOLLOWING ARGUMENTS:

1) The defense played like shit
2) The WRs dropped too many passes
3) Dunn and/or Duckett were shut down

NEVER IS THERE

4) Vick stunk it up today, 3 INTs and 2 lost fumbles will do that to ya
or
5) The Falcons as a whole looked like pure ass out there

1/2/2006 12:33:55 AM

um yeah, I'd say his pro bowl selection this year is pretty much a fluke. Bledsoe, Brunnel, and Eli Manning all have better records and stats. Vick's selection is basically a result of the undeserved constant media love fest around him.

[Edited on January 2, 2006 at 12:36 AM. Reason : gdffg]

1/2/2006 12:34:42 AM

Quote :

"BUT VICK CAN GET ALL THE CREDIT FOR THE WINS, FUCK THE OTHER 52 GUYS"

that's how shit operates. not just for the falcons.

1/2/2006 12:37:15 AM

Quote :

"Vick's selection is basically a result of the undeserved constant media love fest around him."

But coaches and players vote on it. Not the media.

Quote :

"Bledsoe, Brunnel, and Eli Manning all have better records and stats."

First off its Brunell if you all know so much about football.

Second, I am as big a Dallas Cowboys fan on here and I would take Mike Vick over Drew Bledsoe every fuckin time. And I like Bledsoe.

1/2/2006 12:40:26 AM

Quote :

"But coaches and players and fans vote on it."

and fine, take bledsoe out of the equation, w/e. that leaves Brunell and Manning snubbed in favor of a guy who has 2 more TD passes than interceptions

1/2/2006 12:44:59 AM

Most teams have that one guy that gets the lions share of all the success/failure of a team. Hell, look at Favre now. He was Posterchild McJones when the Packers were tearing it up. Now this year you can look at the team and everything that's wrong with it. The defense was expected to suck and for better or worse, they did. The wideouts and runningbacks were all banged up. The oline? Man those guys couldn't block me from getting to #4. Yet EVERYTHING, all the naysayers, were pointing the finger at Favre. Same shit happened to Barry Sanders. His oline sucked, they never had a decent QB, and the defense was pretty bad... but everyone wants to say Barry Sanders is the reason for their success and yet the limiting force from them getting to the next level.


When shit goes bad for the Falcons, it's never Vick's fault if his supporters/stockholders/ESPN are any indication. Vick is willing to put the Falcons on his back and I applaud him for that. But shit, when his line is 7-for-25, 68 yards, 31 rushes on 9 carries, no TDs, 2 INTs, and a lost fumble, can the rest of us blame him for the loss? And if not, why should we agree that "winning is the bottom line/all that matters, and vick did just that" when he has a similar line and they win?

[Edited on January 2, 2006 at 12:48 AM. Reason : ,]

1/2/2006 12:47:29 AM

Considering how low expectations were for the Redskins this season, it's shocking that Brunell didn't make the Pro Bowl.

1/2/2006 12:49:24 AM

I've been a longtime Falcon's fan and I'm not big on Vick, but the guy is good. You're not gonna have a good passer rating when you're a running QB on a team that lives by the run.

If you are going to run with Dunn or Duckett or Vick most of the game then your passing yards will be low, and when you have recievers who can't catch for shit then INT's happen too.

1/2/2006 2:13:29 AM

Quote :

"Considering how low expectations were for the Redskins this season, it's shocking that Brunell didn't make the Pro Bowl."

Brunell had a great season, but I think it would be a valid argument that Cooley, Portis or the Washington Defense were equally if not more important to the team's success. Ramsey wasn't a slouch when he was in for Brunell either...but Brunell has been crucial this year...

1/2/2006 2:16:24 AM

Quote :

"Delhomme? Absolutely not. That's a slap in the face to the rest of the Panthers team to pretend Delhomme was integral to our success."

I didn't realize you were on the team, could you get me some autographs?

1/2/2006 3:43:08 AM

to pile on quite talking about aj feely going 5-0 you douche. It was 2 years ago

1/2/2006 3:47:53 AM

Quote :

"When shit goes bad for the Falcons, it's never Vick's fault if his supporters/stockholders/ESPN are any indication. Vick is willing to put the Falcons on his back and I applaud him for that. But shit, when his line is 7-for-25, 68 yards, 31 rushes on 9 carries, no TDs, 2 INTs, and a lost fumble, can the rest of us blame him for the loss? And if not, why should we agree that "winning is the bottom line/all that matters, and vick did just that" when he has a similar line and they win?"

i'm gonna quote that every 5-10 replies until someone answers it

1/2/2006 4:49:47 PM

^Yeah I agree. How in the hell did he make the pro bowl? The NFL loves him JUST because he brings excitement not because he is good.

1/2/2006 5:23:21 PM

vick is the human highlight film. with the emphasis on human. i'm an atlanta fan but he can not carry the team all by himself. some of the loses are his fault and some are not. he isn't a top 5 qb but you put him out there as a free agent, the other 31 teams would be ready to pick his ass up.

1/3/2006 5:01:30 PM