Interesting read about a teacher's view on the work ethic of students today.

Quote :

"Failure in the classroom is often tied to lack of funding, poor teachers or other ills. Here's a thought: Maybe it's the failed work ethic of todays kids. That's what I'm seeing in my school. Until reformers see this reality, little will change. Last month, as I averaged the second-quarter grades for my senior English classes at T.C. Williams High School in Alexandria, Va., the same familiar pattern leapt out at me. Kids who had emigrated from foreign countries - such as Shewit Giovanni from Ethiopia, Farah Ali from Guyana and Edgar Awumey from Ghana - often aced every test, while many of their U.S.-born classmates from upper-class homes with highly educated parents had a string of C's and D's. As one would expect, the middle-class American kids usually had higher SAT verbal scores than did their immigrant classmates, many of whom had only been speaking English for a few years. What many of the American kids I taught did not have was the motivation, self-discipline or work ethic of the foreign-born kids. Politicians and education bureaucrats can talk all they want about reform, but until the work ethic of U.S. students changes, until they are willing to put in the time and effort to master their subjects, little will change. A study released in December by University of Pennsylvania researchers Angela Duckworth and Martin Seligman suggests that the reason so many U.S. students are "falling short of their intellectual potential" is not "inadequate teachers, boring textbooks and large class sizes" and the rest of the usual litany cited by the so-called reformers - but "their failure to exercise self-discipline." The sad fact is that in the USA, hard work on the part of students is no longer seen as a key factor in academic success. The groundbreaking work of Harold Stevenson and a multinational team at the University of Michigan comparing attitudes of Asian and American students sounded the alarm more than a decade ago. Asian vs. U.S. students When asked to identify the most important factors in their performance in math, the percentage of Japanese and Taiwanese students who answered "studying hard" was twice that of American students. American students named native intelligence, and some said the home environment. But a clear majority of U.S. students put the responsibility on their teachers. A good teacher, they said, was the determining factor in how well they did in math. "Kids have convinced parents that it is the teacher or the system that is the problem, not their own lack of effort," says Dave Roscher, a chemistry teacher at T.C. Williams in this Washington suburb. "In my day, parents didn't listen when kids complained about teachers. We are supposed to miraculously make kids learn even though they are not working." As my colleague Ed Cannon puts it: "Today, the teacher is supposed to be responsible for motivating the kid. If they don't learn it is supposed to be our problem, not theirs." And, of course, busy parents guilt-ridden over the little time they spend with their kids are big subscribers to this theory. Maybe every generation of kids has wanted to take it easy, but until the past few decades students were not allowed to get away with it. "Nowadays, it's the kids who have the power. When they don't do the work and get lower grades, they scream and yell. Parents side with the kids who pressure teachers to lower standards," says Joel Kaplan, another chemistry teacher at T.C. Williams. Every year, I have had parents come in to argue about the grades I have given in my AP English classes. To me, my grades are far too generous; to middle-class parents, they are often an affront to their sense of entitlement. If their kids do a modicum of work, many parents expect them to get at least a B. When I have given C's or D's to bright middle-class kids who have done poor or mediocre work, some parents have accused me of destroying their children's futures. It is not only parents, however, who are siding with students in their attempts to get out of hard work. Blame schools, too "Schools play into it," says psychiatrist Lawrence Brain, who counsels affluent teenagers throughout the Washington metropolitan area. "I've been amazed to see how easy it is for kids in public schools to manipulate guidance counselors to get them out of classes they don't like. They have been sent a message that they don't have to struggle to achieve if things are not perfect." Neither the high-stakes state exams, such as Virginia's Standards of Learning, nor the requirements of the No Child Left Behind Act have succeeded in changing that message; both have turned into minimum-competency requirements aimed at the lowest in our school. Colleges keep complaining that students are coming to them unprepared. Instead of raising admissions standards, however, they keep accepting mediocre students lest cuts have to be made in faculty and administration. As a teacher, I don't object to the heightened standards required of educators in the No Child Left Behind law. Who among us would say we couldn't do a little better? Nonetheless, teachers have no control over student motivation and ambition, which have to come from the home - and from within each student. Perhaps the best lesson I can pass along to my upper- and middle-class students is to merely point them in the direction of their foreign-born classmates, who can remind us all that education in America is still more a privilege than a right. Patrick Welsh is an English teacher at T.C. Williams High School in Alexandria, Va., and a member of USA TODAY's board of contributors."

It is mostly just venting, and I think he should have interviewed teachers other than ones at his school, but I think he hits the nail on the head with some points.

TWW teachers, opinions?

[Edited on March 9, 2006 at 10:04 AM. Reason : foo]

3/9/2006 10:03:19 AM

video games and tv have killed the attention span

instant gratification for little investment has also become the norm

teachers should also be allowed to beat sassy kids

[Edited on March 9, 2006 at 10:23 AM. Reason : +]

3/9/2006 10:20:28 AM

i think other factors play into it, but thats probably moreso in the poorer schools than what he is observing.

coming from an affluent area i can say that plenty of ppl did the bare minimum despite being very smart and probably should have received lower grades than they did. thats going to be true anywhere. high school is quite easy if you just do the hw and listen, in my opinion (obviously ppl with learning issues or who are just terrible at certain subjects are the exception of course).

take it a step further and look at activities. my mom was the assistant cheerleading coach. each year we had parents come in and threaten to sue the high school and state things like "you're ruining....." fucking rediculous.


^ and yes i agree, our convenience-based society isnt helping. you have to do 0 work to get anything done nowadays. i say take the internet back out of schools and make those kids actually do some research. it serves to distract them more than help them i bet.

[Edited on March 9, 2006 at 10:28 AM. Reason : .]

3/9/2006 10:27:31 AM

skool r dum

3/9/2006 10:29:38 AM

I totally agree with this guy. Bitchy parents suck too.

3/9/2006 10:33:12 AM

I agree with the guy completely. I remember one time im middle school, the dept of education was conducting one of those tests that they use to compare kids around the country. I knew of at least 6 of the maybe 30 kids that just put a random answer, didn't even read the questions. This is even more prevalent in country schools where kids don't think that getting an education is important. They don't see anything wrong with just working at Walmart for their life. Or some think they will just carry on the family farm, not realizing how much farming is dying.

Quote :

"who can remind us all that education in America is still more a privilege than a right. "

But kids in america don't even see education as a "right," many see it as a requirement, a hassle, something that they don't want to do.

3/9/2006 10:36:33 AM

and kids wonder why adults think they are idiots and deserve no respect.

3/9/2006 10:39:11 AM

NC State is totally ruining my party time.

also this is why we need to legalize all drugs and tax the fuck out of them. This way people who drop out of school cant make money from selling crack or heroin. Destroys the business unless its acually used in a business setting. Dont know what those people are going to do then tho.

3/9/2006 10:42:52 AM

the only thing grades prove is that you have the ability to push yourself through the most boring and mind dulling experiences ever.

this prepares you for the working world.

3/9/2006 10:42:52 AM

^ i think the article is talking about you

3/9/2006 10:44:23 AM

Gov't education is like any other gov't system. If the taxpayers don't like the results..complain..exert pressure and get them to change it for you. If kids are getting poor grades, it's probably easier for the parent to complain and get the standard lowered than it is to do the hard things that will turn the kid around.

Education is too important to let politicians and bureacrats run it.

3/9/2006 10:49:33 AM

private schools are the same just with more money waisted by the parents. Which is cool with me I guess.

3/9/2006 10:54:18 AM

this article is not making an argument for privatizing the education system, dumbass

in fact, if you privatize it, the school system will more than likely follow the customer base

lazy ass kids and their bitchy parents

3/9/2006 10:55:03 AM

oh stfu, you know what Earthdogg was implying.

3/9/2006 11:03:03 AM

yeah jackass, i was replying to earthdogg

3/9/2006 11:05:18 AM

well use some little carrots (^^^^^^^^^^) douche.

3/9/2006 11:08:14 AM

right, well i thought the context was obvious

to be fair, you probably scored low on the reading comprehension portion of the standardized test

more than likely because you were a lazy student

3/9/2006 11:11:11 AM

the context sucked. And I donno why but we are the only people posting in the soapbox and its hilarious.

you are the man.

3/9/2006 11:18:55 AM

Quote :

"marko: video games and tv have killed the attention span instant gratification for little investment has also become the norm teachers should also be allowed to beat sassy kids"

Quote :

"Shaggy: the only thing grades prove is that you have the ability to push yourself through the most boring and mind dulling experiences ever. this prepares you for the working world."

While I believe marko's points are valid, I think Shaggy pretty much zoomed in on the truth of the matter.

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Education/TransformingHighSchools/Announcements/Announce-060302.htm

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/MediaCenter/Speeches/BillgSpeeches/BGSpeechNGA-050226.htm

3/9/2006 11:21:04 AM

Quote :

"^ i think the article is talking about you "

and then I zoomed in on the real truth of the matter

3/9/2006 11:22:58 AM

THE SCHOOLS ARE TEACHING YOU STUFF! IF YOU THINK ITS BORING THEN YOU OBVIOUSLY SHOULD BE A MODEL! even if it an ugly one.

3/9/2006 11:26:06 AM

^,^^What the fuck are you talking about?

3/9/2006 11:27:28 AM

i'm talking about you

being a moron

3/9/2006 11:27:58 AM

i donno what im talking about b/c i find alot of my classes really boring. But I gotsta learn so I dont end up in jail yo.

3/9/2006 11:31:19 AM

I can agree with this teacher. Hell, I'm sure I'm guilty of the laziness that he's talking about.

I agree that blame should be put onto the students, but perhaps pressure should be applied to the parents as well. Yes, we live in a world where instant gratification is the norm and kids can have whatever they want by simply flipping a switch, but who do you think has the most power to regulate that kind of behavior? Who do you think can turn off the tv, smack the kids upside the head and say "no more video games until you do your school work!" I'll give you a big hint, it's not Big Brother Government.

It's not just a world where kids get instant gratification, adults and parents get it too. And perhaps it's gotten to the point where parents have kids simply because they want them or feel like they have to, but aren't necessarily prepared to put in the effort to raise them. This, in my opinion, is a very sad state of affairs, for if the parents will not take charge of their own children, what hope is there for the future generations? While it's not the end-all-be-all solution, I think that if you saw parents actually taking a stand against their children and forcing them to put up with a little hard work, students' work ethic and attitude in general will improve. Obviously there's more factors at play, but it's foolish to think that there's nothing more to do on the parents' part.

3/9/2006 11:32:28 AM

I hear that the requirements to get into NCSU have risen since I got here. However, I think that maybe the highschools have gotten more lenient too. When I was a freshman, I felt like an idiot compared to most of my peers here. Now, I feel like a genius in comparison. What up with that?

[Edited on March 9, 2006 at 11:44 AM. Reason : me not learn two good]

3/9/2006 11:40:09 AM

^ it means you should take your medication.

3/9/2006 11:40:55 AM

^^you feel like a genius compared to the current freshman or to your peers?

3/9/2006 11:57:55 AM

Quote :

"waisted"

There's your proof I guess.

3/9/2006 12:03:28 PM

^no, spelling really has nothing to do with smarts.

3/9/2006 12:04:05 PM

^especially when we are talking about spelling on TWW

[Edited on March 9, 2006 at 12:08 PM. Reason : ^]

3/9/2006 12:08:06 PM

^,^^ yeah, they should stop teaching spelling in schools... and stop taking points off papers for misspelled words while they are at it. In fact let's just flush the whole "common base" component of the written language while we are at it. To further my point...

jkhdsf ojhfas lkjhdsfu8 ;lkdf iu;lk fasdfiohlk hadf;oihfldk h;lkhdf;lkh sdaflk;h ;lskdhf

[Edited on March 9, 2006 at 12:09 PM. Reason : sure it's TWW but waste v. waist "c'mon" ]

3/9/2006 12:08:49 PM

End social promotion.

Social promotion is one of the main reasons schools suck.

It hurts students whom are prevented from being held back.

It hurts students whom have to share classrooms with others that should've been held back.

Discuss.

3/9/2006 12:30:52 PM

TERRIFIC KID!

3/9/2006 12:31:25 PM

Hell yeah, hempster, but we need to look at how we evaluate students in the first place and where it all is starting: before kindergarten.

You want better schools and better educated students?

End social promotion! Fuck yeah!

But please consider public day care for all children before kindergarten.

3/9/2006 1:06:01 PM

can you plz post the link to the original USA Today article?

thanks

3/9/2006 2:59:10 PM

Quote :

"Kids who had emigrated from foreign countries - such as Shewit Giovanni from Ethiopia, Farah Ali from Guyana and Edgar Awumey from Ghana - often aced every test, while many of their U.S.-born classmates from upper-class homes with highly educated parents had a string of C's and D's. "

This is not because foreigners are harder workers, I don't think. I think it's more that the foreign kids who happen to make it over here are more likely to be from families who force them to work hard. If you actually visit those countries, you'll still see most people being dumb and lazy, just like anywhere else.

3/9/2006 3:25:52 PM

my parents instilled in me a hard work ethic

in high school i had a 4.3 GPA, was in the national honor society, key club, worked 30 hours a week at a hospital, was a 2nd degree black belt, taught childrens karate, worked every week with an autistic child, volunteered at a special care nursery, and was an assistant preschool teacher for work-study

i did all this thinking i'd get in a great school and get some scholarships...WRONG

once i realized that all my hard work meant shit, i pretty much stopped caring about how hard i worked. I slacked off at State and did the bare minimum to pass....and i havn't noticed a damn difference in my oppurtunities.


I ONLY WISH I HAD KNOWN THIS IN HIGH SCHOOL

3/9/2006 3:44:20 PM

^Da troof.

On another note: Why does everyone always ignore my suggestion that we should provide public-funded daycare for anybody that wants it for their child before they enter kindergarten?

3/9/2006 3:49:23 PM

^^if anything a testament to raising academic standards at NCSU. We ought to fail some folks oughta here.

^^^In my experience, foreign students beat domestic students hands down. Mostly due to discipline and a lack
of any sense of entitlement. As opposed to your typical US student who is just trying to slide by because they assume that no matter what happens they will still have a way to survive despite their incompetence. After all
even the really poor in this country still do ok in terms of surviving. That is not the case everywhere.

[Edited on March 9, 2006 at 3:55 PM. Reason : ^^ and ^^^]

3/9/2006 3:55:01 PM

^Kids are failing out every semester. What are you talking about?

AND I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD COMPARE FOREIGN STUDENTS TO DOMESTIC STUDENTS. APPLES AND FUCKING ORANGES YO.

3/9/2006 4:16:47 PM

foreign students don't have souls like we do

3/9/2006 4:20:36 PM

Quote :

"my parents instilled in me a hard work ethic in high school i had a 4.3 GPA, was in the national honor society, key club, worked 30 hours a week at a hospital, was a 2nd degree black belt, taught childrens karate, worked every week with an autistic child, volunteered at a special care nursery, and was an assistant preschool teacher for work-study i did all this thinking i'd get in a great school and get some scholarships...WRONG once i realized that all my hard work meant shit, i pretty much stopped caring about how hard i worked. I slacked off at State and did the bare minimum to pass....and i havn't noticed a damn difference in my oppurtunities. I ONLY WISH I HAD KNOWN THIS IN HIGH SCHOOL"

listen, i'm not trying to rain on your parade or anything

but there is something to be said for raw talent

now, being a hard worker is admirable, and you're going to go very far in life with that trait alone

but being a hard worker does not, in any way, assure that you're going to be the best, or among the best

that's the way life is, sorry

...

so the moral of the story is

don't stop working hard, or you're totally fucked

[Edited on March 9, 2006 at 4:24 PM. Reason : .]

3/9/2006 4:23:25 PM

^let me explain further

i did all that, and on scholarship night I saw person after person with less qualifications than me get full rides to school because their parents were divorced, or because they were buddy-buddy with the scholarship counselor at my school.

One girl who was on crack for 3 years turned herself around to make C's and D's her last year recieved a full scholarship to a college or program of her choice for "best turnaround"


I recieved nothing...not one scholarship (and that sorta deflates the belief i had for 17 years of my life that hard work and perserverance pays out in the end)

....And no, I'm not fucked. I recieved a job offer for a great job 3months beforemy graduation....just proves its who you know, not how hard you work


WHATS MY INTERNET USER NAME HAVE TO DO WITH THIS DISCUSSION


[Edited on March 9, 2006 at 4:32 PM. Reason : ]

3/9/2006 4:28:31 PM

listen

your username is OMFGPlzDoMe

do we really need to go into this?

3/9/2006 4:30:03 PM

^^ umm... where did you go to school?

i've never heard of anyone getting a scholarship for "best turnaround," and afaik my school didn't have a "scholarship counselor" (they had counselors, but only 1 of them was really competent).

3/9/2006 4:44:27 PM

Quote :

"listen, i'm not trying to rain on your parade or anything but there is something to be said for raw talent"

What are you talking about? How can you tell OMFGPlzDoMe doesn't have raw talent? You seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing. They apparently got completely shafted, and you try to argue with them and say their hard work will only take them so far. Hard workers may also possess raw talent. Again, dude, why would you argue this case?

3/9/2006 5:07:54 PM

teachers trying to pass the buck for their failures

3/9/2006 5:10:36 PM

^I would agree with that in this particular case. When a teacher says we don't have enough money, space, supplies, etc...that's one thing. But if a teacher says the kids have terrible work ethics and aren't motivated...well, that's the fucking fault of the teacher.

3/9/2006 5:14:43 PM

Parents dont teach kids work ethic.

Teachers don't (in general) inspire and motivate kids.

Kids see little to no reward for serious hard work. Get all A's or all B's or all C's and the result is still the same all through till college.

3/9/2006 8:15:42 PM