This is almost a tech-talk question, but I feel like you guys are more knowledgeable than them when it comes to something like turntables...

Anyway, just curious on thoughts/opinions/experiences with particular brands/models of CDJs.

The Pioneer CMX 3000 looks pretty sick at a glance:



but I may not need such a top notch machine initially -- any ideas on how to trim cost just a little, but still get a decent dual system with built-in mixer? Also -- i'd almost prefer the flat, opaque, classic table look -- i mean, a mini version of actual vinyl tables... so that model I just posted may not quite fit that aesthetic because of the digital info being in the center of each of the job wheels.

thanks!

-ZiP!-

[Edited on April 9, 2006 at 1:52 PM. Reason : ]

4/9/2006 1:50:44 PM

What exactly do you plan on doing with them?

If it's scratching, you'll need to get two seperate standalone units. If it's mixing, then one of those will work fine. I don't know of a whole lot of dual systems with built in mixers that aren't total crap, the one pictured above, for example would need a seperate mixer.

I also prefer the single cd units, and if I picked one I'd probably go with the Denon DN-S1000. It's $400, you'd need two and a mixer, so that would probably put you at under $1500 for a really good setup with a road case and all. As for the double, I'd probably with something like that CMX3000. Pioneer and Denon are the big names in cd-turntables, so go with them.

But do know that you won't really be able to scratch or anything on those jog wheels. They work well for back-queuing, but that's about it.

4/9/2006 3:24:41 PM

^ah - thanks a lot man.

i'm not really sure what i wanna do with them yet, i just sorta wanted to finally pick something up to play around on for a bit. Maybe putting some accapellas on different instrumentals, mixing some jazz and lounge...

but i do see what you're saying with the CMX3000, in terms of it not even having a fader to switch between the two discs.

i suppose you're right - about the stand-alone tables. i'm still just trying to figure out how I can get a little bit of a taste without going full-force into it, monetarily speaking. but at the same time, i guess no hobbies are cheap, i know i could sink tons more money into my actual career or photography or whatever...

-ZiP!-

[Edited on April 9, 2006 at 4:57 PM. Reason : ]

4/9/2006 4:56:01 PM

yeah I'd get a feel for what you want to do with them first

you'll get off a good bit cheaper buying the dual unit, I'm a vinyl guy so I prefer the singles, but I'm sure the dual is just the same if you're used to using it

it'll take a pretty big money investment, but it will also take a good bit of time before you can actually do anything with them as well. It looks easy, but it took me longer to learn to mix decently than it did to learn to play the bass guitar or keyboard decently. It's not as easy as it looks.

4/10/2006 1:26:47 PM

i hear you man, i respect that.

i'm not expecting to start playing around and suddenly know what i'm doing anytime soon, at all...

i may try the craigslist route first, i'm unsure about buying absolutely brand new from a dealer first

-ZiP!-

4/11/2006 9:33:35 AM

serato.

4/11/2006 11:53:56 PM

i personally like the pioneer cdj-800s and they recently came out with a cdj-800mk11 with updated features $700

i also like the technics model:
$800

some of the economy models include
< $400


$220

$400

$300


or you can go this route
$200



hybrid turntable has ability to play vinyl and cds

[Edited on April 12, 2006 at 12:32 AM. Reason : k]

4/12/2006 12:31:24 AM

paul man, you owned the fuck out of this thread! thanks!

super, super helpful -- i'm gonna grab a more budget setup initially

thanks for letting me play on your tables that one time

-ZiP!-

4/12/2006 12:43:33 AM

also: in a nutshell, what makes crappier setups crappy? i understand sometimes its in the quality of the knobs / fader and such, but also in theory a crap CDJ setup could have even a little lag in the response of the jogwheel?

-ZiP!-

4/12/2006 12:47:30 AM

Like Kris said it really depends on what you want to do with them. Denon's are always quality. I love the S3500s. They're nice as hell but they're a bit pricey, about 600 a piece if you find a deal on them. Denon's are popular for their sampling ability and most play mp3s. Are you looking to use mp3s or just cds? I could recommend a few that are good for scratching but they all start about 400 or so. I'm not sure about the combo units or the ones only with jog wheels, I've only messed with the ones with scratching ability. Denons, Pioneer, or the Numark ones that look like real turntables are nice as hell but high too. If you're looking cheaper but quality go with the Denon S-1000s.

4/12/2006 1:32:48 AM

denon S-1000

hm, doesnt look too bad... though if they run $400, seems like it almost might make sense to get the CDJ-200 by Pioneer... hmm... but it looks like the Denon did win some awards and stuff

and to answer your question, it'd be mainly MP3s. i've got everything on CD, but its also all ripped onto my HD, which I could reburn to CDs.

-ZiP!-

[Edited on April 12, 2006 at 1:47 AM. Reason : ]

4/12/2006 1:45:02 AM

you might want to take a trip out to your local music store and check them out. Take some CD's with you and ask the guys there to hook it up for you.

Also let me strongly recommend agianst the Numark iDJ iPod thingy. It looks cool, but it's got no pitch control. Pitch control and manipulation is what allows you to mix, and without it, that thing is nothing more than a mixer with a jog wheel. Now this new one that Numark is supposed to be coming out with actually looks feasable. It's supposed to run two channels off one iPod and have pitch control.

You also might want to notice the big problems with cheaper cd tables, so you'll know kind of what to look out for. One is delay. As a DJ, when you have something cued, you need it to play as soon as you hit the button, some of the really cheap ones have close to a .5 second delay, which is HUGE. Second is navigation. Some of the cd decks are very hard to navigate through (and the technics is one of them IMO), and if you are using a cd with a thousand MP3's, you are going to need to jog through quick, otherwise you spend your entire time looking for the next song rather than queueing it. These are the two biggest problems I have with a lot of CD turntables, so make sure you watch out for those, they may not seem like a big deal to you now, but when you get into it, those can become a HUGE pain in the neck. And as for really nice features, a filter effect is really nice sounding, and it can help you mix too. Sometimes the EQ on your mixer might not be able to get rid of the bass on the song you're cueing, but with a highpass filter, you can really kill it with an adjustable cutoff.

I've been considering getting those Denon S-1000's when I get the money. While I love my vinyl decks, and I'll never get rid of them, I'd like to be able to get more DJ gigs. Unfortunately not many people like my music, so it would really help if I could play all the hot rap/pop/rnb songs. But I can never bring myself to buy those record because I know if a few months they'll be worthless. Plus I'd like to have one giging set of tables and one home set for my records, and I also hate draging heavy ass turntables and 2 crates of records. So those definately make me consider cheating on vinyl.

4/12/2006 3:39:18 AM

http://www.serato.com/products/scratchlive/

4/12/2006 11:36:16 AM

I could never use serato, I'd feel like too much of a nerd carrying a laptop with me

4/12/2006 12:23:16 PM

i feel you on that one, but think of it like this. you roll up to a spot with a couple thousand songs on mad cd's. I roll up to the spot mixing on real turntables, off of a labtop with 40,000 songs. who's got the advantage. The fact that you can still use vinyl (the easiest medium to manually manipulate), and have the advantage of storing your songs in digital format from one source (your labtop), makes it the no-brainer.

4/12/2006 3:23:25 PM

how about when your just djing a hour or two hour slot and you have your serato? after the dj before you, you would have to take the outputs of the club mixer put it into the serato box into laptop then back into the club system. then after your slot is up, youd have to disconnect everything or just leave it all there so the next dj can get on real quick. tough workaround for that scenario.

4/12/2006 5:55:24 PM

Do they make road boxes for serato and a laptop? I wouldn't want to carry around a fragile laptop. And if I did DJ with cd's I'd probably just have two identical MP3 cd's inside the S1000s.

4/12/2006 8:01:45 PM

thanks for those earlier comments Kris

ah - the serato setup sounds similar to what i saw RJD2 using last week

good point about the identical discs too

-ZiP!-

4/12/2006 8:43:38 PM

no problem, I've kind of been shopping for the same thing, so just trying to give a bit of insight

yeah I've seen a lot of hip hop dj's using serato, but I think it's biggest selling point is the vinyl interface, so for DJ's that don't scratch it's not that much more appealing than CD's.

4/12/2006 9:43:48 PM

Serato has solutions for all your counterpoints. If you actually want some more info hit me up. I wouldnt get it unless you really wanna dj for real though.

4/12/2006 10:00:49 PM

I think if you went to sam ash or guitar center you could see some of the stuff in person and find some info.

4/12/2006 10:21:31 PM

^^yah, i definitely wouldn't do that as my first step right now.

^i don't think i've seen either of those near here (NYC), but i could be wrong, i'll look 'em up

-ZiP!-

4/12/2006 10:46:39 PM

I really DJ for real now with real turntables on real vinyl. I don't have any problem with serato, looks great, and lots of people love it. But it's not for me. The biggest I have is having to carry and set up so much stuff, serato adds to my current backbreaking setup and only saves me from carrying a bag of records. With the CD turntables I don't have to carry vinyl and I only have to carry two little CD players and a mixer. They both save me from having to buy vinyl which is nice, but the only really advantage of serato is the interface, which I don't really need, I'd take the lighter wieght. I can spin fairly well on anything with a pitch slider and a touch sensitive platter.

I know what serato is and it's really cool, but it doesn't beat vinyl or cd in every respect, they all have their advantages.

4/12/2006 10:49:53 PM

listen to kylie and go to ncdnb.com with this shit

(jader can post there too so nobody gets butthurt )

i'll ask my mate at gemini what he'd advise whenever he gets back online, he should be helpful

in other news - there are some fucking sick dual turntables coming out soon, keep on the lookout at the end of this year/beginning of 2k7

and btw, i'm personally a vinyl supporter, though i would have to say that serato is a lovely program from what i've seen, and i'd prefer vinyl then serato then playing cd's

but thats all personal preference

4/13/2006 1:50:32 PM

just get cool edit pro

and just build your tracks on a computer

burn them to cds

and then pretend to dj for 3 hours

wave of the future

4/13/2006 2:48:46 PM

wooden foot: i dunno bout your plan

katie emo: cool deal, thanks!

-ZiP!-

4/13/2006 3:00:58 PM

ziP: :ban: katie emo

4/13/2006 4:05:37 PM

i'm telling you

wave
of
the
future

4/13/2006 4:28:59 PM

i'm gonna hit up a retail location soon to test 'em out,

i spoke too soon about those particular stores not being here:

Sam Ash
155 West 48th Street
New York, NY 10036-1523
Phone: 212-719-2625
Store Manager: Frank Clum
Monday - Friday: 10:00 AM to 8:00 PM
Saturday: 10:00 AM to 8:00 PM
Sunday: 12 Noon to 6:00 PM

Guitar Center
25 W. 14th Street
Manhattan, New York 10011
Store Hours:
M-F: 10-9 | Sat: 10-8 | Sun: 11-7
Phone: 212-463-7500
Fax: 212-463-7592
Manager: Judd Goldrich

I didn't realize they were national.

But, i was also told about:

Turntable Lab
120 East 7th Street in the East Village
between Avenue A + 1st Ave
Mon-Fri 1-9pm / Sat-Sun 12-8pm
212.677.0675
6 to Astor Place
F to 2nd Avenue
N/R to 8th Street



-ZiP!-

4/13/2006 8:50:23 PM

If you ever plan to play in clubs i would strongly suggest buying pioneer CDJ'S. They are the standard. Cdj 200 is a good bet (newest model). I have the CDJ 800 and love it.

4/13/2006 10:50:17 PM

^someone else was just telling me that the 800s are really solid

my only prob with the 200s is that i just found out they don't have a vinyl-simulation mode

-ZiP!-

4/13/2006 10:51:39 PM

The solid'est is the CDJ1000MK2..they have 0.02 pitch control (if you spin house it matters) , they also have hotcue's and u can store cue points on an SD card. The jog dial is also heavier (more close to vinyl). But they cost the bomb

4/13/2006 10:54:09 PM

one more thing..If you do go the pioneer route..buy online (cheaper). However make sure that you check the pioneer site for authorized dealers. Pioneer will not honor your warranty if you buy from a non authorized dealer!

4/13/2006 11:00:24 PM

If you buy from Guitar Center or Sam Ash make them make you a deal. Never pay the price that's on it. Most of them are really cool and willing to help you out, others just want their commission. If you're planning on buying 2 I'm sure they'll work something out for you, especially if you can pay in cash.

4/14/2006 11:14:09 AM

my biggest piece of advice is look long-term, yes these are your first, but if you plan on becoming seirous about it I would go ahead and invest in some better tables (like the pioneers). if you just want to have them to fuck around with, thenn take a serious look at the feature list of all the ones you're considering, and then determine which features are vital, which "would be cool to have" and which you don't see any use for.

try them out before you buy them, and shop around! see if places to price-matching (i think guitar center does, actually i know they do as i got my headphones for $40 cheaper because of that) nad investigate warranty options as well.

4/14/2006 2:17:47 PM

make sure you get a big packpack to carry them around in

4/14/2006 2:22:10 PM

best carried in road cases, they'd scratch or break in a backpack

4/14/2006 4:31:34 PM

^^ouch, pwnt

-ZiP!-

4/14/2006 5:12:24 PM

i see what he did there

4/14/2006 5:21:12 PM

so what did you buy?

Anyways while we are on the topic - a shameless plug .

Check out http://www.thesharmas.org for some of my mixes. I'm still an amatuer, so be gentle

4/24/2006 8:37:50 PM