Soccer is the most demanding sport when you combine athletic ability with skill.

Discuss.

6/23/2006 1:17:07 PM

agreed

6/23/2006 1:19:22 PM

[/thread]

6/23/2006 1:31:41 PM

After watching the Stanley Cup, I think Hockey could rival this argument. I doubt anyone could match the conditioning in soccer but i think the amount of skill these guys have makes up for it.

6/23/2006 1:36:28 PM

^I'd only consider it because its own skates. So not only do you have to have stick/puck skills....but you have to do all of that shit on skates (and I can't skate for shit, so that's big to me).

I'll still give the edge to soccer...but hockey is up there (and you could give it another bump because they fight).

6/23/2006 1:38:40 PM

BASKETBALL WINS THIS THREAD HANDS DOWN....THE SHIT THAT NBA PLAYERS DO ISN'T NATURAL

6/23/2006 2:08:16 PM

^wrong

6/23/2006 2:10:48 PM

I don't know, as far as athletic ability goes, nba players win. They can do everything soccer players can do plus jump 3ft+ straight up. Marathon runners have as much athletic ability as soccer players.

I'm undecided about the skill part though. it's hard as hell to do the things they do with that ball.

6/23/2006 2:15:26 PM

^I don't know, NBA players get timeouts and a rest three times a game as opposed to once.

6/23/2006 2:24:02 PM

and unlimited substitutions.

6/23/2006 2:25:24 PM

meanwhile, watching world cup just showed me that while 3 or 4 players on a team are always moving the rest seem to spend as much time standing around as o-linemen

6/23/2006 2:26:14 PM

they go harder while on the court, play more games a year, and must do more (in terms of athletics) than soccer players.

6/23/2006 2:28:15 PM

Quote :

"meanwhile, watching world cup just showed me that while 3 or 4 players on a team are always moving the rest seem to spend as much time standing around as o-linemen"

that too

6/23/2006 2:28:40 PM

Quote :

"Soccer is the most demanding sport when you combine athletic ability with skill. Discuss."

FIRST OF ALL THE STATEMENT IS NOT QUITE CLEAR......

IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SICKEST ATHLETES BBALL PLAYERS ARE BY FAR....IF YOU HAVE EVER SEEN THESE PLAYERS IN PERSON THEY ARE HUUUUUUGEEE.....THE THINGS THEY DO ON THE COURT ARE NOT HUMAN.........THEY MAY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE WALKING BUT THAT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE EXTREMLY FAST.....NOT ONLY THAT...TRY RUNNING UP AND DOWN A FLOOR FOR 30+ MINUTES ONLY TO BE GREETED AT THE END BY A 7'2" 320 LB SHAQ PUSHING YOU AROUND AT THE END......

I KNOW SOCCER COVERS MORE GROUND BUT ANYONE CAN CONDITION THEMSELVES TO RUN FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME....NOT EVERYONE CAN TRAIN TO JUMP 40"......

6/23/2006 2:42:02 PM

the athletes have wonderful acting skills, thats all that i have seen in the spirit of the world cup

6/23/2006 2:46:11 PM

basketball players have the highest necessary combination of agility, speed, strength and stamina

soccer players generally require higher stamina and speed on average, but that is wehre it ends

6/23/2006 2:54:20 PM

if you've never played hockey, then you don't know how much conditioning you need to be good at

it. when i played every player on my team including the goalie would have pads, and their

undershirt (many players wear a t-shirt underneath all of it) that would be soaked in sweat. your

whole body is used in hockey. while it is very fast, you need to understand the physics of skating.

unlike running in which your legs move in contemporary forward and back motion, when skating you

have to thrust your legs out and away from you. for this next part imagine someone standing in the

middle of a giant clock with their front facing the 12. the most perfect stride is one in which the legs

are thrusted out towards the 5 and 7 positions on the clock. also since your feet are not perfectly

aligned with the surface, you have to dig into the ice with the inside edge in order for you to

maximize the power in your stride. it's hard to explain, but you have to exert a lot of force at an

angle against the ice in order for you to have the most optimally, powerful stride.



and for skill, well there's so many skills that you have to have, that i don't think i should really get into it. i'd probably write a short novel if i did.

[Edited on June 23, 2006 at 3:01 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2006 2:59:36 PM

ok congratulations, you write your post in word and hockey uses different motions than other sports

did you have any actual point to make?

you think hockey is the only sport where the players sweat through everything?

you think the padding doesnt actually ADD to the amount of sweat?

hockey players rarely stay on the ice longer than 5 or 10 minutes




i mean, the point is, any sport can be said to have the "highest" combo, but really of the major sports soccer, basketball, hockey and football are all about tied when you get down to it.

6/23/2006 3:02:59 PM

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6/23/2006 3:06:45 PM

it is good to see you contributing to the discussion

6/23/2006 3:08:16 PM

well the topic of the thread was

Quote :

"most demanding sport when you combine athletic ability with skill"

i'm saying that hockey is one of the most demanding when you consider athletic ability and skill. no i didn't write my post in word. i just double click my enter key when i know that i'll have a lengthy post. anyone can run up and down a court/field. it's easy to catch/kick a ball. i'll say that the heading the ball does take some practice, but isn't anything completely amazing. shooting a basketball does take some practice, but you don't always have to end up facing a Shaq type player. you could be a guard that shoots from outside against a player of similar build. basketball does not take as much practice as hockey to understand what you need to be doing when you're out there (unless you run the princeton offense ) football is all specialization. in hockey, besides the goaltender, every player needs to know how to do everything. play defense, shoot, pass, check, stick handle, skate, anticipate, read the play, trash talk and fight etc.

i'm not here to say that hockey trumps all of the other sports. i'm just trying to put forth a good argument on why it should be considered one of if not the most demanding when combing both athletic ability and skill. a good athlete might be able to make an easier transition to the other major sports than to hockey.

6/23/2006 3:19:41 PM

wow that is one of the most ignorant arguments i have ever heard

"anyone cna throw or catch a ball"

well shit i can slap a puck with a stick, the doesnt make me a hockey player

Quote :

"hooting a basketball does take some practice, but you don't always have to end up facing a Shaq type player. you could be a guard that shoots from outside against a player of similar build."

you know

i dont even know how to respond to this

6/23/2006 3:23:30 PM

Quote :

"a good athlete might be able to make an easier transition to the other major sports than to hockey."

i can agree w/ that, this would be a good measuring stick as to which is more demanding.

6/23/2006 3:24:59 PM

how?

all that means is that it is a completely different skill set

the fact large ball sports and small ball sports require similar skill sets doesnt make them any more or less demanding

6/23/2006 3:28:14 PM

hockey definitely requires some skill

however in another sense, skating is easier than running if you look at momentum, friction, etc...you can dig your skate a few times and coast 100 feet...a bit easier than running 100 feet

6/23/2006 3:31:20 PM

Quote :

"i mean, the point is, any sport can be said to have the "highest" combo, but really of the major sports soccer, basketball, hockey and football are all about tied when you get down to it."

6/23/2006 3:32:01 PM

there was a survery done a while ago that ranked sports according to how difficult they were. They took a panel of experts, and "identified 10 categories, or skills, that go into athleticism", and then ranked each sport by those categories. boxing was number 1, soccer was 10.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/sportSkills

...i dont think that quite fits your category of "demanding", buts its interesting none the less.

[Edited on June 23, 2006 at 3:35 PM. Reason : df]

6/23/2006 3:34:26 PM

^^^that is true. that whole part that i tried to explain skating was to show how you need to exert a lot of force for an optimal stride. besides you're not out there coasting. you're constantly moving your legs back and forth. a hockey stop isn't something you can master in one day like turning around and running the other way like other sports.

[Edited on June 23, 2006 at 3:36 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2006 3:36:13 PM

...and if you want another example of how demanding hockey is, look at how long they are on the ice....maybe 30 seconds at a time...then they sit. some basketball players play then entire game without coming out.

6/23/2006 3:38:34 PM

you cant learn how to walk or run in a day either

but EVERYbody begins learning that at a young age

hockey is only "different" in the skill set it requires

6/23/2006 3:40:26 PM

which makes it more difficult i would think.

6/23/2006 3:41:58 PM

but it is only more difficult in that it isnt common

skating takes no longer to learn than walking/running

this is why in cold weather countries where skating is popular, everyone is proficient

6/23/2006 3:43:48 PM

difficult in different ways

obviously everybody knows that different sports are different and require different skillsets...some favor speed...some strength...some endurance

i would almost say baseball is the hardest sport...but only in the sense of hand-eye coordination...i dont know many soccer or football or basketball players that could hit a 90mph slider or a breaking ball that drops 2 feet...also i dont know anybody who's made the switch to baseball from another pro sport and done really well (Bo, Deion, etc I consider already being good at baseball, not switching a la Michael Jordan)

6/23/2006 3:44:04 PM

Quote :

"but it is only more difficult in that it isnt common "

agreed

6/23/2006 3:45:13 PM

Quote :

"the fact large ball sports and small ball sports require similar skill sets doesnt make them any more or less demanding"

to compare the sports, there has to be some common measuring stick if not the difficulty of the skill sets, then what?

6/23/2006 3:45:19 PM

You have to realize though that soccer is a game played entirely with your legs. Yes, you do have to be able to run distances and have high levels of endurance, but you are not just running forwards and backwards to get you from one place to another. There is a great deal of cutting, balance, and coordination involved in dribbling a soccer ball well, passing, shooting, or defending an attacker... much like there is with skating in hockey. No, not everyone can skate like a hockey player, but not everyone can dribble or shoot a soccer ball very well either. Running is just one small portion of fitness needed to be a soccer player. I see a number of soccer-related knee injuries everyday at Duke Sports Med PT... it's got to be one of the most common athletic injuries we have. Just ask Micheal Owen what is involved in soccer... he ruptured his ACL while making a simple pass in England's recent game against Sweden.

6/23/2006 3:47:58 PM

which is my point that they are nearly impossible to compare

the link you posted actually does a really good job but it is still relative and opinion based


i mean, someone who has played hockey his whole life may try to play basketball and think it is extremely difficult to play at even a mediocre level, but that doesnt necessarily mean that it requires a "more difficult" skill

my argument for this thread isnt that hockey is easy or soccer is easy or basketball is easy, but more that it is nearly impossible to compare them b/c they are so different


BUT YOUR LINK IS BULLSHIT B/C IT DOESNT GIVE SOCCER A ZERO FOR HAND/EYE COORDINATION. WHAT DOES A SOCCER PLAYER NEED HAND/EYE COORDINATION FOR???

[Edited on June 23, 2006 at 3:49 PM. Reason : A]

6/23/2006 3:48:27 PM

^^

Quote :

"I'm undecided about the skill part though. it's hard as hell to do the things they do with that ball. "

[Edited on June 23, 2006 at 3:49 PM. Reason : ^^]

6/23/2006 3:48:50 PM

so wait there's no stoppage of time in basketball. i could have sworn that there was ft's, timeouts, halftime, substitutions, etc. they're not always in constant motion. most hockey games last longer anyways. if you go and play non-professional hockey, where you don't have ice resurfacing, more than 6 forwards, and 4 defensmen, you would know how demanding it is. more hockey is played this way, and that's how most of the guys in the NHL grew up playing. do you know how hard it is to move your feet on third period ice that hasn't been resurfaced the entire game? dammit where's some hockey players on here to help concur with me. i played organized baseball and hockey, and like any other kid that grew up in North Carolina i played basketball with friends/schoolmates. i even played some pick up soccer games every now and then. never once did i feel as energetically drained as i did after a hockey game. of course i admit that pick up games aren't exactly taken the most serious either.

6/23/2006 3:49:38 PM

Quote :

"f you go and play non-professional hockey"

if professional sports are hard to compare, non-professional sports and impossible

you have to look at the sport played at its highest level with the best equipment available

6/23/2006 3:51:22 PM

Quote :

"which is my point that they are nearly impossible to compare"

Quote :

"my argument for this thread isnt that hockey is easy or soccer is easy or basketball is easy, but more that it is nearly impossible to compare them b/c they are so different"

i agree with you here. i say let's just drop this argument b/c it's such a hard thing to determine.

6/23/2006 3:54:44 PM

Quote :

"FIRST OF ALL THE STATEMENT IS NOT QUITE CLEAR......"

How is it not clear?? It's a combination of athletic ability and skill you dumbass.

Everyone else is getting it pretty well and seem to be discussing very in-depth.

Let's throw this out there:

Every soccer player on the field has be ridiculously athletic and skilled. Not so with basketball. You can have a guy who is really athletic (Stromile Swift, Ben Wallace, etc.) and not skilled, but they can be still be a professional. Football?? Good skill...so-so athletic with lineman. Fat kickers. Not very athletic, but maybe extremely skilled quarterbacks. Baseball....ridiculously skilled to hit an 85mph curveball....but can be as fat as Babe Ruth. Boxing...hello George Foreman late in his career.

I think hockey players match the "every player on the field has to be skilled and athletic." Basketball is close...but not quite there.

6/23/2006 4:20:30 PM

ben wallace isnt skilled at playing defense and rebounding?????


as for the rest of them, do you seriously think george foreman at the end of his career is valid? look at ronaldo, he is fat as shit and has still scored 2 goals in this world cup.

kickers are a minor part of football in terms of time on the field, but how can you say kicking a football isnt athletic? doesnt that complety erase your argument for soccer? babe ruth had tons of athletic talent and skill, obviously. just b/c you are fat doesnt mean you arent an athlete.

6/23/2006 4:25:23 PM

its really hard to say that the best defensive player in the nba isn't skilled.

and i totally forgot about boxing...it takes this argument hands down. Boxing tires you out faster than just about any other activity, and if you're not a skilled boxer you're a punching bag.

6/23/2006 4:27:52 PM

^Ronaldo isn't that fat...and he's still fast as shit. Plus...if he wasn't chasing a record, he wouldn't be playing right now...and that's a fact.

And Sebastian Janikowski is athletic?? And most kicker aren't that athletic. I wouldn't call kicking athletic...I would call it skilled. So they have half of it...but not the whole.

The point of using George Foreman was that he was fat as shit but could still compete at a high level.

And Ben Wallace is athletic as shit...and he is skilled at defense...but his offensive skills are horrible. Consistently airballing free throws, can't dribble for shit, etc. Not a good combo.

Combination is the key word here. Only thing against soccer players is that maybe they don't have to be that strong....but most of them still are (at least wiry strong).

6/23/2006 4:29:18 PM

boxing requires both more than any other sport. you can't fall back on your teammates if you're a boxer

6/23/2006 4:32:07 PM

so defenders in soccer have great offensive skill and vice versa?

where is the proof of this?


i mean it all depends on how you define athletic ability, if it is only speed and agility, then sure soccer players will beat out some baseball or football players.

but what about goalies? all they need is agility, they dont need long speed or stamina

6/23/2006 4:33:55 PM

It all goes back to what a good measuring stick for skill and athleticisim would be for comparing mult sports.

6/23/2006 4:37:06 PM

Defenders and offensive players in soccer are pretty close in skill set as far as ball placement and foot skills go.

And most keepers have EXCELLENT ball skills. A lot of them could probably be put on the field and do well outside of the keep position. Not so with kickers and football (if that's what you're comparing them to).

I'm torn on boxing though. Because you could put a Giant out there who could kick everyone's ass and he doesn't have to be THAT athletic.

And like I said...."athletic" can be a confusing term. I'd like to look at "athletic" as a combination of strength, endurance, speed, flexibility, etc. However, most people view "athletic" in a similar way.

6/23/2006 4:40:48 PM

Quote :

"Because you could put a Giant out there who could kick everyone's ass and he doesn't have to be THAT athlet"

that's why there are weight classes.

and, i know it's not professional, but college wrestling would be at the top of the list too.

6/23/2006 4:46:01 PM