Recount this shit now esé, or my crew gon fuck you up!

7/4/2006 6:38:49 PM

NO, I WON!!1!!!!1 by this many.

7/5/2006 7:37:32 AM

Al Gorealez

7/5/2006 9:28:47 AM

^You're not funny. Just a heads up.

7/5/2006 10:21:26 AM

^^
right down to threatening lawsuits to overturn the recount results he requested...

7/7/2006 12:20:51 AM

he should just get the high court to decide it for him and forget about the actual voters

7/7/2006 12:39:23 AM

^you mean they aren't doing that?

7/7/2006 7:20:58 AM

liberals and their recounts... lollers...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/07/08/mexico.elex.ap/index.html

Quote :

"100,000 protest Mexican election results Saturday, July 8, 2006; Posted: 9:13 p.m. EDT (01:13 GMT) MEXICO CITY, Mexico (AP) -- Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador called on a huge crowd of supporters to keep protesting while he pursues a legal challenge of Mexico's disputed presidential vote count, and to help him prevent "a backward step for democracy." The fiery, silver-haired leftist said he would begin presenting his allegations to the nation's electoral court on Sunday, requesting that all 41 million votes cast be recounted to expose fraud he believes cost him the election. "We are going to ask that they clean up the elections. We are going to ask that they count all the votes, vote-by-vote, poll-by-poll," Lopez Obrador said, calling on the army to protect the integrity of every ballot box. He also called for marches nationwide, beginning Wednesday and converging on Mexico City for another rally on Sunday July 16. And he provoked groans of disappointment from the packed crowd in Mexico City's central plaza when he told them not to block highways. "This has been and goes on being a peaceful movement," he said. "We are not going to fall for any provocations." The likelihood of continuing demonstrations suggests just how difficult it will be for the ruling party's Felipe Calderon to unify Mexicans, many of whom believe the nation has yet to overcome the decades of institutional corruption and fraud that kept its leaders in power. Lopez Obrador took direct aim at President Vicente Fox, accusing him of conspiring with Mexico's autonomous elections agency, known as IFE, to engineer a victory for the ruling party's Calderon. Lopez Obrador said Fox had betrayed the Mexicans whose outrage over repeated election fraud swept him into power in 2000 after 71 years of single-party rule by the Institutional Revolutionary Party, or PRI. "He dedicated himself to attacking us and ended up being a complete traitor of democracy," Lopez Obrador said. "And if that weren't enough, the IFE, which should act with imparciality, turned into the pawn of the party of the right." Lopez Obrador claimed earlier Saturday that there were more irregularities in last Sunday's balloting than under the PRI. Election monitors from the European Union said they found no irregularities in the count. Legal challenges were built into Mexico's elections process in recent years to help ensure clean elections, so Calderon can't be declared president-elect until the electoral court weighs allegations of fraud or unfair campaign practices. The court has until Sept. 6 to declare a winner. The stakes are high as Calderon and Lopez Obrador appeal to the court of public opinion. Lopez Obrador remains convinced he won the elections. He has millions of extremely devoted followers who believe only he can help Mexico's poor and downtrodden, and he views street protests as an effective means of pressuring the government and the courts. Election officials say Calderon, of Fox's National Action Party, beat Lopez Obrador by less than 244,000 votes out of 41 million ballots -- or a margin of about 0.6 percent. Calderon says the vote was clean and has taken congratulatory phone calls from U.S. President George W. Bush and the leaders of Canada, Spain and Colombia, among others, despite Lopez Obrador's plea for foreign governments to hold off on recognizing the result. The crowd in the Zocalo Saturday night would accept nothing less than victory for the silver-haired former Mexico City mayor. "We are never going to recognize this man (Calderon)," said Apolinario Fernandez, 37, a teacher from Lopez Obrador's home state of Tabasco in the southeast. "If he wants, let him govern in the north for the rich, but not in the south." Calderon's strength is in Mexico's industrialized north while most of Lopez Obrador's supporters come from Mexico City and poor southern states. Many traveled all night to arrive at the demonstration, joining a sea of yellow, the color of Lopez Obrador's Democratic Revolution Party. "We are ready to do whatever is necessary," said Belasario Cruz, 32, a farmer from Tabasco. "We are tired of the rich having everything and the poor having nothing." There were no immediate reports of arrests or violence at the protests. Political analyst Oscar Aguilar predicted that Lopez Obrador will never concede defeat. "Once the election results are certified, he will open a permanent campaign of criticizing the government," Aguilar said. Lopez Obrador claims a manual recount would confirm that hundreds of thousands of votes for him remain uncounted, miscounted or voided. The law allows such a recount only for specific polling places where credible evidence of irregularities exist. The leftist's supporters say that applies to at least 50,000 of the approximately 130,000 polling places. If Lopez Obrador appears too radical, he risks hurting his party and its chances in the next presidential elections in 2012. If he appears too moderate, he risks disappointing his core supporters. "His political stock would increase greatly for 2012" if he can concede defeat gracefully, Aguilar said. Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed."

 

7/8/2006 11:09:24 PM

TGD, an independent count found that, depending on chads and what counted as a vote and what didn't, Al Gore won that election. Furthermore, that recount helped to reveal serious complications in our voting processes. I admit that parts of the controversy were amusing, but to write the whole thing off as "silly liberals, such poor losers" is idiotic.




I think it's disturbing that the presidential election in Mexico depends on plurality, not majority.

7/8/2006 11:26:50 PM

i know this will be ignored since this guy was aligned with the south american wackos, but...

i wouldnt be suprised by fraud. i mean, this is former pres. vincente fox's corrupt party that won here...and its mexico...

7/9/2006 12:07:52 AM

^
I'm not so sure -- didn't Mexico add all sorts of hurdles against fraud once the PRI was pushed out of power?

---

Quote :

"BridgetSPK: TGD, an independent count found that, depending on chads and what counted as a vote and what didn't, Al Gore won that election."

Yes, under the recount standard advocated by... George W Bush.

The AP coalition found that W won by using the other 5 out of 6 vote standards, including the one supported by Al Gore's people  

7/9/2006 12:29:18 AM

^You didn't tell me anything I didn't already know, and you ignored my important points.

7/9/2006 12:38:18 AM

haha ok, fair enough

Quote :

"BridgetSPK: Furthermore, that recount helped to reveal serious complications in our voting processes."

Not really. I'd say the voting revealed serious complications in our voting processes

---

Quote :

"BridgetSPK: I admit that parts of the controversy were amusing, but to write the whole thing off as "silly liberals, such poor losers" is idiotic."

I disagree. Liberals are routinely poor losers, especially when nothing goes wrong voting-wise. Ref: 2002 Congressional elections, and 2004 elections

---

Quote :

"BridgetSPK: I think it's disturbing that the presidential election in Mexico depends on plurality, not majority."

How do you think Bill Clinton became President twice?

7/9/2006 12:43:23 AM

Quote :

"TGD: How do you think Bill Clinton became President twice?"

The electoral system?

Quote :

"TGD: I disagree. Liberals are routinely poor losers, especially when nothing goes wrong voting-wise. Ref: 2002 Congressional elections, and 2004 elections"

We need at least a decade of this behavior before I can support any generalization.

Quote :

"TGD: Not really. I'd say the voting revealed serious complications in our voting processes"

LOL

7/9/2006 12:52:58 AM

liberals are out to destroy the world

dont let them recount. actually, we shouldnt let them even run.

7/9/2006 12:59:00 AM

^
[edit: n/m... liberals...]

---

Quote :

"BridgetSPK: The electoral system?"

Yes -- pluralities. Not majorities. Why does it disturb you in Mexico, but not in the US?

[Edited on July 9, 2006 at 1:23 AM. Reason : ---]

7/9/2006 1:21:38 AM

everytime i read the word mexican i giggle. sort of like the mexican dude i used to work with in a restaurant when i was 15 did. does that make me a bad person?

7/9/2006 1:34:11 AM

^^It's like what happened to Michael Jackson back in the day. You see, Michael was nominated for an award twice in one category. The vote was split, and he didn't win, even though everybody knew he should have won. Instead, some other loser won.

Similarly, let's say we have three candidates running for president of Mexico. Two candidates are viable prospects to win (they are both very good: Michael Jacksons, if you will). And then there's a third candidate who's totally out there, but he's kinda cute and he wants to institute free ice cream day every Tuesday.

So most of the voters are split between Michael Jackson I and Michael Jackson II. But there's this relatively small group of people who think Sr. Out There is totally hot and/or love ice cream.

Theoretically, Sr. Out There could win with 35 percent of the vote. And that disturbs me.

[Edited on July 9, 2006 at 1:59 AM. Reason : sss]

7/9/2006 1:58:23 AM

^
e.g. George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and Ross Perot

I repeat -- why does it disturb you when it happens in Mexico, but you don't seem to care when it elects Bubba?

7/9/2006 7:27:41 AM

Quote :

" I disagree. Liberals are routinely poor losers, especially when nothing goes wrong voting-wise. Ref: 2002 Congressional elections, and 2004 elections""

Sort of like how the Bush administration was when Hamas was elected to power, or when Ahmadinejad won in Iran, or when Yushenko apparently lost (then had a runoff) in Ukraine?

7/9/2006 10:48:11 AM

^^I think our electoral system somehow protects against that happening. ??

Either that or I think less of the people/political climate in Mexico. MY SHAME!

I keep trying to figure out a way to edit that that will make it sound better, and I've come up with a few ways, but anybody who's mildly thoughtful will be able to decode it into that original statement. Obviously, I have a number of reasons for my opinion, none of which include thinking Mexicans are inherently bad at voting.

[Edited on July 9, 2006 at 1:31 PM. Reason : sss]

7/9/2006 1:19:06 PM

As Mexico is one of the most corrupt countries in the world and that the right wing candidate won by such a small margin, makes me think that the left wing candidate probably actually won by a comfortable margin.

7/9/2006 1:27:16 PM

half of arizona went south of the border to vote in that election, i thought it was crazy

7/9/2006 1:50:44 PM

This is an extremely positive thing that PAN won.

Mexico under Fox has finally got on the right track with regards to their fiscal and monetary policy. Now, with a more favorable international economic environment the reforms implemented by Fox and PAN will hopefully start to really pay off.

If Obrador had won it, probably the first thing that would have gone was the crazy idea of keeping inflation to a single digit percentage.

7/9/2006 2:18:43 PM

Quote :

"As Mexico is one of the most corrupt countries in the world and that the right wing candidate won by such a small margin, makes me think that the left wing candidate probably actually won by a comfortable margin."

You're an idiot and Mexico's electoral system is one of the best in the world. We could learn a lot from their voting process.

[Edited on July 9, 2006 at 11:37 PM. Reason : 2]

7/9/2006 11:37:18 PM

maybe a new Mexican president will find a way to keep his people IN the country

7/9/2006 11:47:24 PM

TGD, can you educate me and explain to me why I feel the way I do and what's wrong with my feelings?

I think I'm totally off, and I need guidance.

7/10/2006 2:45:47 AM

Quote :

"As Mexico is one of the most corrupt countries in the world and that the right wing candidate won by such a small margin, makes me think that the left wing candidate probably actually won by a comfortable margin."

I see, because the liberals would never be guilty of fraud. They're always honest and looking out for the electorate. [/naive ridiculous statements]

7/10/2006 7:39:19 AM

7/10/2006 7:46:38 AM

Quote :

"Now, with a more favorable international economic environment the reforms implemented by Fox and PAN will hopefully start to really pay off."

Yes, but they could have been even better off. Mexico is still being weighed down by monopolies and nefarious regulation, but you are right that Fox made improvements, if only he had been able to reform everything instead of just half.

7/10/2006 8:22:17 AM

Quote :

"BridgetSPK: TGD, can you educate me and explain to me why I feel the way I do and what's wrong with my feelings? I think I'm totally off, and I need guidance."

You're an American and think Mexicans are inferior. There's nothing wrong with that worldview I guess ::shrug::

7/10/2006 10:48:34 AM

7/10/2006 2:34:26 PM

Okay, I've had time to think about it. And I don't want to be that person so I take back nearly everything I've said in this thread.

I would be more inclined to support plurality if it was by two votes: first and second choice. I also think our electoral college protects us from the dangers that the plurality system present.

[Edited on July 10, 2006 at 4:55 PM. Reason : sss]

7/10/2006 4:55:33 PM