As in there will be a specific issue and then you will take a side and debate it with facts and opinions and leave the personal attacks, etc, out of it? And we'll do it one issue at a time instead of going off on other shit...If so, here's the first issue:

Hezbola should be taken out of commission? Yes or No? Debate

7/15/2006 6:59:23 PM

hezbollah*

7/15/2006 7:02:11 PM

The reason they have hezbollah is because they took the PLO out of comission. It's a cycle thats sure to continue as long as Israel keeps acting this dramatic.

7/15/2006 7:03:27 PM

What do you suggest they do when a foreign country crosses their border and abducts their soldiers?

7/15/2006 7:10:04 PM

Limited engagement and not widespread attacks on civilian infrastructure. They should just move back into southern Lebanon and force the Lebanese government to disarm hezbollah.

7/15/2006 7:16:28 PM

Quote :

"dramatic."

right...one 9/11 two "rockets" hit the US...we went halfway around the world, invaded a country, and overthrew a government...

what do you think we would do if Canada and Mexico shot rockets at us once a week and then started crossing our border and killing and abducting our soldiers??

7/15/2006 7:31:59 PM

Hezbollah =/= Lebanon

If some organization in Canada lobbed rockets into the city I can assure you we would not respond with an all out assault on the Canadian infrastructure.

7/15/2006 7:46:45 PM

you assure me??...ok...im not so sure...

Hezbollah is part of the government over there....if a political party in canada attacked us and the rest of the canadian government wasnt doing anything about it....we would attack

7/15/2006 7:48:53 PM

Quote :

"And we'll do it one issue at a time instead of going off on other shit..."

oh well

7/15/2006 8:02:09 PM

I don't really know how to debate with someone who thinks we would start bombing suburbs and infrastructure if a Canadian organization that wasn't acting with the endorsement of the Canadian government or the majority of citizens attacked the US. But we have never been in a modern conflict with a neighbor so I will drop that point.


Lebanon is a country with various groups acting togethor. Some politicians are part of the Hezbollah movement but it's not like they are controlling the actions or are even knowledgable of upcoming attacks. The Lebanese government has already codemned the actions of Hezbollah and made pleas to the international community for a cease fire.

Only time will tell if the Israeli actions cause the Lebanese people to condemn Hezbollah or cause them to be sympathetic to their cause. Looking on the past its important to note that Hezbollah grew out of resentment for how Israel handled the PLO.

7/15/2006 8:04:24 PM

thats fine...all im saying is...if members of a Canadian political party was responsible for countless terrorist attacks over the last 5 years and then they started killing and kidnapping soldiers...and if Canada, in spite of our diplomatic efforts did nothing about it...please believe we would be bombing Canada and doing everything else in our power to make the terrorist activity stop...i base this statement on what we did after 9-11...which was to do whatever was necessary

Quote :

"Some politicians are part of the Hezbollah movement but it's not like they are controlling the actions or are even knowledgable of upcoming attacks."

how do you know that??

7/15/2006 8:10:35 PM

So if some gun toting republicans started attacking Canada ala John Candy you think that Canada would probable take out our infrastructure and start bombing neighborhoods and attacking cities from the sea and you don't think that would be overescalating things?

7/15/2006 8:13:18 PM

Quote :

"It's a cycle thats sure to continue as long as Israel keeps acting this dramatic."

If tomorrow morning, a resolution was drawn up that said that there was to be no more violence involving the Israeli military, Hezbollah, and/or Hamas from that day forward, do you think that Israel would ever launch an attack? Absolutely not. Would Hezbollah and/or Hamas? Absolutely. That's not a cycle

7/15/2006 8:14:28 PM

I am not denying Israels right to defend themselves, I am just criticizing them for oversescalating things. There are ways to force Lebanon to comply with the Taif Agreement and UN resolution 1559 that don't involve attacking civilian targets on a large scale.



[Edited on July 15, 2006 at 8:21 PM. Reason : .]

7/15/2006 8:15:55 PM

^?

7/15/2006 8:19:35 PM

I would also like to note that I am not alone in my position. Its the position most other nations and the world press have all taken.

[Edited on July 15, 2006 at 8:33 PM. Reason : V i know, i was only pointing that out because i was the only one on here]

7/15/2006 8:22:13 PM

argumentum ad populum

7/15/2006 8:30:28 PM

Are they overreacting to this specific incident of the kidnapping of 3 soldiers? Well if it was an isolated incident, then I'd say yes, but my question is at what point is it 'the last straw'? Israel isn't trying to destroy Lebanon or the Muslim people, they ARE trying to destroy Hezbollah which is a terrorist group. The Israelis are not aiming for civilians, but if the people who they need to target are using the civilians as cover, (which they specifically do) then it's the terrorists which have killed the civilians, not the Israelis.

Quote :

"There are ways to force Lebanon to comply with the Taif Agreement and UN resolution 1559 that don't involve attacking civilian targets on a large scale."

Well this past couple days the UN officially condemned the Israeli's acts....
Do you know how many times the UN has offically condemned Hezbollah's acts of terrorism? 0
Do you know how many times the UN has offically condemned Hamas acts of terrorism? 0

7/15/2006 8:31:48 PM

(First, note that I have never made any statements about Hamas, that is different.)

I don't know, I would say indescriminately firing on coastal traffic is firing on civilians.

Quote :

"Do you know how many times the UN has offically condemned Hezbollah's acts of terrorism? 0"

The UN has made many statements about hezbollah. What are you talking about?

7/15/2006 8:37:57 PM

Quote :

"If some organization in Canada lobbed rockets into the city I can assure you we would not respond with an all out assault on the Canadian infrastructure."

If they did it for days then yes I think we would go mess their place up a little

7/15/2006 8:38:41 PM

Quote :

"But we have never been in a modern conflict with a neighbor so I will drop that point."

...moving on

7/15/2006 8:41:06 PM

Quote :

"So if some gun toting republicans started attacking Canada ala John Candy"

thats a terrible analogy...its not equivalent at all...

if some republicans had, for the last 20 years been shooting rockets at canada...and the republican party didnt do anything about it....and the american government didnt ever do anything about it....and then that group started going into canada and killing and abducting canadian soldiers....then canada would be well within thier rights to say "Screw this...we are taking this into our own hands"

thats exactly what israel is doing

7/15/2006 8:45:06 PM

Israel didn't pull out of Lebanon till 2000.

You all have this "all or nothing" mentallity. There are degrees of engagement here.

[Edited on July 15, 2006 at 8:48 PM. Reason : .]

7/15/2006 8:47:06 PM

so what??

so they have been at it 6 years....little difference...

[Edited on July 15, 2006 at 8:50 PM. Reason : asdf]

7/15/2006 8:49:26 PM

Quote :

"BridgetSPK: Now you tell me how that excuses your bullshit where you establish the superiority of the Jews over a mostly Muslim group, the Palestinians."

Quote :

"mytwocents: Well I guess how you would define superiority would matter in what context...and it's hard to quantify something like that, but people like to talk in terms of money so...and bear in mind that I'm stating FACTS Israel - pop.6,352,117 - (Jewish 77%, Muslim 16%) - GDP per cap=$24,600 - GDP $154.5 billion Westbank - pop.2,460,492 - (Muslim 75%, Jewish 17%) - GDP per cap=$1,100 - GDP $1.8 billion Gaza Strip - pop.1,428,757 - (Muslim 99%, Jewish 0.6%) - GDP per cap=$600 - GDP $768 million so economically the Israelis are FAR superior. And I'd say its fair to say that Israel is FAR superior when it comes to restraint and having morals and if you can honestly say that you don't agree with that, then I guess you missed the '60 Minutes' where a number of Palestinian terrorists (they had all committed murder, and happily admitted to it) were interviewed and one particular guy said that the only reason he was sorry for his crime (he had blown up a store or something) was because it only killed 20 Jews and he wished it had killed 100 times that."

7/16/2006 12:18:12 AM

Israel's existence where it is, is the cause of all their troubles. Get the fuck off those peoples land and there wouldn't be a problem. Them crying about Arab hate against them, and terrorists blowing them up and such, is akin to me sitting on a hornets nest and wondering why my ass is getting stung. WTF did they expect to happen? Should have carved off a piece of Germany, and called that Israel. So when shit happens to the Israelis, I have no sympathy for them. GTFO and there wouldn't be a problem. Hopefully Israel will get its face kicked in eventually so badly, there won't be any more escapades like this. What they are doing in Lebanon is treacherous, but like the saying goes: what goes around, comes around.

7/16/2006 12:40:12 AM

you sir, speak the truth ^ but israel wouldnt be around anymore if we didnt protect them. thats why we are getting attacked. we deserve it sadly

7/16/2006 12:49:16 AM

AHA, Protostar and I are still caught up with that detail...

Seriously, if you wanna place blame for this whole situation, you gotta blame British conceit/stupidity. And disturbingly uncharitable European behavior after WWII didn't help much either.

(This is why I can't argue about this topic. I'm still stuck on the fucking Balfour Declaration. I can't get past it.)

[Edited on July 16, 2006 at 1:02 AM. Reason : sss]

7/16/2006 1:00:39 AM

haha...i got news for you guys.....israel is going to kick everyones tail over there...and if it gets to the point where they are in trouble...the US will step in and wipe the whole place out....and no one will have the balls to stop us

7/16/2006 1:02:09 AM

^and then when planes hit buildings we will be all "wtf?"

7/16/2006 1:03:30 AM

^^^ Let's blame the Ottoman Empire while we're at it.


[Edited on July 16, 2006 at 1:05 AM. Reason : ^^^]

7/16/2006 1:03:59 AM

Quote :

"^and then when planes hit buildings we will be all "wtf?""

maybe...we will have nuked everyone over there before that happens sooo....not a problem

7/16/2006 1:05:07 AM

Quote :

"haha...i got news for you guys.....israel is going to kick everyones tail over there...and if it gets to the point where they are in trouble...the US will step in and wipe the whole place out....and no one will have the balls to stop us"

The US is not about to step anywhere. The US will step in and get its ass eaten alive just like it did in Vietnam.

7/16/2006 1:06:53 AM

Quote :

"maybe...we will have nuked everyone over there before that happens sooo....not a problem"

Are you serious, or are you just trolling? Because if you're going to troll, take it to Chit Chat. Even if you're not, take it to Chit Chat, as this is for serious discussions only.

7/16/2006 1:08:17 AM

hahaha...thats comical...take yourself to chit chat....

the US is not about to step anywhere??...let iran or syria attack israel...see where the US steps

[Edited on July 16, 2006 at 1:09 AM. Reason : asdf]

7/16/2006 1:08:19 AM

^^i almost know that was a joke post but just in case it wasnt read this next line. if it was a joke ignore this next line.


you damn fool, if we used multiple nukes in an unnecessary situation (middle east) we would not only fuck ourselves over (un, geneva, enviroment, us public, etc etc) but nukes dont kill everybody and there would be people left alot of people and these organizations would have so many applicants it would be like getting into yale.

7/16/2006 1:10:53 AM

Quote :

"Seriously, if you wanna place blame for this whole situation, you gotta blame British conceit/stupidity."

I agree. I think Britian should foot the bill for relocating Israel, not anyone else. But the Israelis refuse to leave, so they will probably end up getting defeated sooner or later. The Arabs will eventually gain victory by defeating Israel in a war of attrition if this escalates to an all out war.

7/16/2006 1:11:19 AM

your an idiot...the nuke comment was clearly a joke....

whats not a joke is the FACT that if other arab countries start to mess with israel to the point that israel cant defend itself...the US will take them all out...and no one will stop us...

7/16/2006 1:13:17 AM

Quote :

"the US is not about to step anywhere??...let iran or syria attack israel...see where the US steps"

You let the United States declare war on the entire Middle East, and the resulting conflict will make Vietnam look like Operation Desert Storm. Typical American arrogance thinking the US willcome out on top. Did the US win Vietnam? No, it got its face kicked in (and rightly so) and left tail between legs like a little bitch. Which is exactly what will happen here.

7/16/2006 1:13:59 AM

Quote :

"trikk311: whats not a joke is the FACT that if other arab countries start to mess with israel to the point that israel cant defend itself...the US will take them all out...and no one will stop us..."

Tides are turning. People are starting to view Israel as more of a liability than ever before.

And what do you mean by "take them all out"?

[Edited on July 16, 2006 at 1:16 AM. Reason : ]

7/16/2006 1:15:44 AM

Does anyone really believe the capture of those three soldiers is more than a pretext? Israel has been wanting to do something like this for a while. This just gives them an excuse.

7/16/2006 1:17:35 AM

if you cant get passed vietnam your pathetic...stop looking at the entire world through that prism...your fantasizing about US failure is disgusting

the ONLY reason the US had a problem in vietnam is because it was so concerned about killing innocent people...self-imposed restraint...im not going to have a discussion about vietnam because this war would be nothing like vietnam

call me arrogant...but its fact that the US could take out the governments of any and every nation thta attacked israel with minimal problems

Quote :

"Tides are turning. People are starting to view Israel as more of a liability than ever before."

hmm...you mean in the soapbox??...now theres a good indicator of popular opinion for you...

[Edited on July 16, 2006 at 1:18 AM. Reason : adsf]

7/16/2006 1:18:09 AM

Quote :

"but its fact that the US could take out the governments of any and every nation thta attacked israel with minimal problems"

YOU FUCKING IDIOT, THATS EXACTLY WHAT WE DID IN IRAQ!!! HAVE WE WON THERE?!?! ARE WE WINNING THERE? You sound just like Bush and the rest of his dumbass posse, talking about taking out governments but no plans for what happens afterward. And if you think taking out Iran is going to be a walk in the the park, you need to wake the fuck up.
Minimal problems my ass. fucking retard.

7/16/2006 1:21:13 AM

we dont have enough ground troops. not to mention oil. if we went to war against islam we wouldnt lose but we might not achieve our goal and definately would fuck up our economy/ world standing. the air force can't completely fight a guerilla war.

[Edited on July 16, 2006 at 1:24 AM. Reason : i know iran is much stronger militarily and the people are united]

7/16/2006 1:23:16 AM

Quote :

"your fantasizing about US failure is disgusting"

Whats disgusting is you supporting a nation which rests on stolen land, and has brought nothing except liabilities to this country ever since we started supporting it. WTF has Israel ever done for the US except bleed money out of it? Nothing. All that money we waste on that fucking worthless country, could be spent solving problems here in America. You are the disgusting one here, not me.

7/16/2006 1:23:57 AM

^exactly. the cold war is over. lets get with the program

7/16/2006 1:24:49 AM

your so pathetic...so pathetic...

and you have finally shown your true colors as nothing more than just a bush hater....which explains your position on this...well done...


yes we have won in iraq....that nation is no longer a threat to america....and the only reason americans are still dying there is because we are there trying to support the new government...would we hang around to buld a goverment?? would we hang around syria??...no...we would bomb the crap out of the place....defeat thier armies .... get them out of israel and be done with it....and we would do it with minimal problems

and your a racist....great...

[Edited on July 16, 2006 at 1:26 AM. Reason : asdf]

7/16/2006 1:25:13 AM

Quote :

"we dont have enough ground troops. not to mention oil. if we went to war against islam we wouldnt lose but we might not achieve our goal and definately would fuck up our economy/ world standing. the air force can't completely fight a guerilla war."

Exactly. The nutjob neocons would rather the entire country virtually collapse trying to save the Israelis. Its goddamn ridiculous.

7/16/2006 1:26:04 AM

Quote :

"the ONLY reason the US had a problem in vietnam is because it was so concerned about killing innocent people..."

Do you have any fucking idea how many Vietnamese died in that conflict?

Just look at the Phoenix Program or Operation Rolling Thunder. "So concerned about killing innocent people" my ass...

7/16/2006 1:26:24 AM

i know how many people died in vietnam...yup...well aware....im also well aware that it could have been alot more...

7/16/2006 1:27:18 AM