I'm lazy. I want to find out more about the actual biblical basis for Christian opposition to using Embryonic Stem-Cells for research. Unfortunatly, with little pratical biblical knowledge to build upon (other than the basics in Sunday School type settings) I am ill-equipped to research this on my own without consulting a pastor or biblical historian. Since I am not attending Church at the moment, I was hoping that some well meaning TWWer would provide me with some (fairly specific) chapters to read or outside historical documents to look up along with common interpretations of the material.

Please post any such information here so this can be considered Soap Box thread material (ie a thread to flame and troll in) and possibly educate some people other than just myself so they to can have a better grasp on the Religious context of this in order to form their opinion.

(I am aware of certain passages used in the opposition to Abortion. However, I do not currently feel that these same citings in any way apply to Stem-Cell research as I understand the circumstances surrounding it today.)

7/24/2006 1:49:24 PM

I'll cite the 11th commandment:

Thou shalt be a moron.

7/24/2006 1:56:37 PM

Are you stupid? Even people who disagree with the reasoning know its basis.

The commandment Thou Shalt Not Kill covers this situation because some believers feel that life begins at conception. An embyro counts as a human. This is the same reason abortion is wrong.

Now, you can lambast that. I find that an early-stage embryo doesn't count as a human, but I have only my intuition for that. That's why I don't oppose embryonic stem-cell research.

But, in some people's view it is the moral equivalent of doing research on infants...which you probably wouldn't need to ask for biblical basis for opposing.

7/24/2006 2:06:54 PM

But the bible says its ok to murder innocent life from existing lines, just not innocent life that is about to be thrown away.

7/24/2006 2:11:03 PM

^I'm on my 8th read and I still haven't quite figured out what you are saying.

7/24/2006 2:14:35 PM

Quote :

"I find that an early-stage embryo doesn't count as a human"

WTF? Take a DNA sample. I guarantee you it's human. What the fuck else would it be? A dog? Unfortunately, while it has human DNA makeup, you people still treat human embryos as dogs.

[Edited on July 24, 2006 at 2:28 PM. Reason : .]

7/24/2006 2:24:16 PM

^^its called sarcasm

[Edited on July 24, 2006 at 2:24 PM. Reason : .]

7/24/2006 2:24:19 PM

Quote :

"^I'm on my 8th read and I still haven't quite figured out what you are saying."

Yes, this administration is that confusing.

7/24/2006 2:29:11 PM

Quote :

"Unfortunately, while it has human DNA makeup, you people still treat human embryos as dogs."

The junk under my fingernails has human DNA too .

[Edited on July 24, 2006 at 2:30 PM. Reason : ,]

7/24/2006 2:30:21 PM

Then why not use it instead of embryos

7/24/2006 2:32:14 PM

Well I guess it has just as much chance of turning into life as the embryos they want to use.

7/24/2006 2:33:24 PM

Then why not use it instead of embryos

7/24/2006 2:35:00 PM

HAI GUYS, MY NAME IS PETE. GOD KNOWS HOW MANY HAIRS I HAVE ON MY HEAD.

7/24/2006 2:37:03 PM

the whole debate is centered around whether or not an embryo is a human life.

the bible tells you to respect human life.

if you believe they are, and you are religious, then more then likely you oppose embryionic stem cell research.

[Edited on July 24, 2006 at 2:49 PM. Reason : df]

7/24/2006 2:48:53 PM

Religious folks think there's a "soul" that magically binds to an embryo.

Therefore, they're against embryonic research.

Rationally minded people think there's a "brain" that creates the human experience.

Therefore, they're not opposed to embryonic research.

[Edited on July 24, 2006 at 2:56 PM. Reason : .]

7/24/2006 2:54:13 PM

Quote :

"I want to find out more about the actual biblical basis for Christian opposition to using Embryonic Stem-Cells for research. "

becuase i said so

Quote :

" life begins at conception."

acts 23, verse 23.23

its right there

[Edited on July 24, 2006 at 3:00 PM. Reason : 234]

7/24/2006 2:59:46 PM

Some would argue it is not the governments job to fund any research, much less Embryonic research.

If you think you can develop something useful then write up a business plan and go to WallStreet, they'll thrown money at you if you can get them to believe you.

If the U.S. ever goes uber-religious then just take the money wallstreet gives you down to Hong Kong and do the search there.

[Edited on July 24, 2006 at 3:10 PM. Reason : .,.]

7/24/2006 3:09:33 PM

Ahh, it is refreshing to see this turned into a mirror of the other Soap Box threads so quickly.

I'm not going to participate in the flame wars, but bgmims has brought up the fact that I should have posed the question alittle more clearly for some people on here.

I am specifically looking for supporting biblical or religious text evidence toward making an argument for or against counting Embryos as human life. I am not looking for speculation, your own personal opinion, or your stereotypes of how religious or non-religious people think. Cited opinions from non-biased religious historians are basically what I'm looking for other people to point me towards.

I doubt I'll get anything along those lines, so I probably won't be responding to this thread again.

Josh#s: As I stated in my OP, I am well aware of many of the religious arguments for interpreting that particular passage and many others the way you have done in that post. I just don't happen to agree that the biblical meaning of the word conception applies to any and all forms/methods of fertilizing eggs.

Again, I'm not looking to argue this or explain it. I'm just looking for information.

Quote :

"Now, you can lambast that. I find that an early-stage embryo doesn't count as a human, but I have only my intuition for that. That's why I don't oppose embryonic stem-cell research."

After consulting a pastor about other issues, he pointed me toward many documents which contained intelligent arguments for how and why various passages should be interpreted as neutral or against Abortion. If you do no research on these matters you may only have your intuition, but putting things in historical context can make a large difference in your own opinion on matters such as this. Again, that is what I'm looking for. Unfortunatly, that particular Pastor has passed away several years ago (back when I still went to Church) and I haven't gotten to know a Pastor since to ask to help me out with researching these types of historical facts. There is so much crap out there that it is rather difficult to find un-biased or not flat out misleading research on these matters.

[Edited on July 24, 2006 at 3:45 PM. Reason : .]

7/24/2006 3:26:02 PM

Quote :

"I am specifically looking for supporting biblical or religious text evidence toward making an argument for or against counting Embryos as human life."

you're not going to find it. The entire basis of modern Christianity is translations and interpretations of ancient texts, twisted and constrewed to fit our current societal needs.

It's like the Constitution (Bible) and the Supreme Court (Church). I don't recall the constitution mentioning anything about the right to abortion, but the Supreme Court interpreted part of it that way, so that's why it's legal.

7/24/2006 3:36:26 PM

^ There are however many historians whom have done research not intended to twist religious texts to our "current societal needs". These contain information not available to you by simply reading these religious texts directly. I am looking for this sort of information for my own personal benefit so that I can determine my own interpretation of these texts.

7/24/2006 3:44:14 PM

Quote :

"Unfortunately, while it has human DNA makeup, you people still treat human embryos as dogs. "

Not true, Brian, I don't think you should be able to treat dogs that way...

AHAHA, just kidding

Look, I realize that the embryo is life...but I choose not to care about it until later into its development. I prefer to think about it as life around the 4th week. Its my own decision, because I have no idea when a soul gets attached to it, but that's the decision I made. If you disagree with it, fine, you have every right to.


But I would like to counter the argument often made that it is not life because it can't survive on its own. That's just ridiculous. Lots of people are unable to survive without machinery, but we still consider them human.

[Edited on July 24, 2006 at 3:47 PM. Reason : /]

7/24/2006 3:46:11 PM

Who cares if it can survive on its own or not?

Functioning. Brain.

7/24/2006 3:52:04 PM

Quote :

"Some would argue it is not the governments job to fund any research, much less Embryonic research. "

Well thats clearly not the issue here, if you would like to to explain why I will but I've already mentioned it.

7/24/2006 4:32:52 PM

abonorio is a goddamn moron.

7/24/2006 4:34:32 PM

Quote :

"Some would argue it is not the governments job to fund any research, much less Embryonic research. "

funding the general welfare of this country is in the constitution, or havent you read it?

7/24/2006 4:44:43 PM

smcrawff, In a democracy people can have many different reasons for why they voted a certain way. While arguments against all government funded research didn't provide swing votes on defense research, it may one day provide swing votes again Embryonic research.

Although it clearly did not in this case, as Bush was the only vote that counted at this time.

[Edited on July 24, 2006 at 4:45 PM. Reason : cor]

7/24/2006 4:44:55 PM

Bush has no problem funding research on existing lines, so its not about the government staying out of things.


But I guess that would also mean its not about the morallity of using embryos, so who knows.

7/24/2006 4:46:33 PM

So would any god really be dumb enough to give souls to two-celled test-tube embryos destined to get freezer burn?

7/24/2006 6:12:27 PM

Here's the bible's position on murder in a nutshell: "Murder is wrong unless A) God does it, or B) God commands you to do it."

Many Christians equate embryonic research and abortion to murder. So if you want to do either, you need to start convincing people that God talks to you.

7/24/2006 8:28:03 PM

Quote :

"Bush has no problem funding research on existing lines, so its not about the government staying out of things. But I guess that would also mean its not about the morallity of using embryos, so who knows."

If you accept both of those, the most likely remaining candidate is that it was nothing but pandering to right-wing religious nutjobs.

Quote :

"WTF? Take a DNA sample. I guarantee you it's human. What the fuck else would it be? A dog? Unfortunately, while it has human DNA makeup, you people still treat human embryos as dogs. "

Aren't people allowed to experiment on dogs though?

[Edited on July 24, 2006 at 8:31 PM. Reason : ]

7/24/2006 8:30:26 PM