Let's just hope ECU or App. State can't make a case for the best college football team in NC this year.



http://northcarolinastate.scout.com/2/549241.html

7/24/2006 6:44:41 PM

ATTN : USERS WITH LESS THAN 1000 POSTS


stop being fucking morons

[Edited on July 24, 2006 at 6:59 PM. Reason : d]

7/24/2006 6:59:06 PM

Funny I registered 2 years before you did. Guess b/c I don't post every fleeting thought that enters my head I'm a "fucking moron"

Very classy and thanks for the input

7/24/2006 7:08:29 PM

you're welcome.

Quote :

" App. State can't make a case for the best college football team in NC this year. "

if we lose to app state we should dismantle the football program, because it' will have offically become a lost cause


dont be a moron

7/24/2006 7:13:38 PM

well would you really expect the Big 4 to be the top 4 in football? Um, how about no. That name comes from the ACC's roots in basketball. Of the 4, I'd say State or UNC are the only two with a remote chance to be at the top. If someone picked Duke to be at the top, everyone would laugh in their face.

7/24/2006 8:25:14 PM

Quote :

"Funny I registered 2 years before you did. Guess b/c I don't post every fleeting thought that enters my head I'm a "fucking moron""

AHAHAHAHA HE USED THE CLASSIC n00b RESPONSE

7/24/2006 8:31:39 PM

this is his second thread. his first thread is this one:

http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=120411

(comedy gold)

[Edited on July 24, 2006 at 8:40 PM. Reason : .]

7/24/2006 8:39:51 PM

I hadn't realized until now just how weak the Atlantic division really is. FSU's the only real power.

Clemson has underperformed under Bowden, BC is overrated, Maryland has been on a downward trend, and then there's Wake.

7/24/2006 8:52:04 PM

hahah

Quote :

"where are my cookies? "

7/24/2006 8:58:04 PM

I think there's a good possibility of us not going bowling this year. I don't give a shit if we lose every game as long as we figure out a way to fucking beat carolina this year though. That shit is getting old.

7/24/2006 9:27:31 PM

are yall turning this conversation into talking about noobies? you people sit on here ALL day long and post every little thing that pops in your heads. I am like that guy, i will read what is said, even though half of it is dumb as hell. Posting stuff like what he posted is actually a lot better to read than half the other crap on here.

7/24/2006 9:36:14 PM

if you are reading it than whats the problem

7/24/2006 10:50:38 PM

7/24/2006 10:58:44 PM

from dave glenn's blog:

Quote :

" Four Reasons Big Four = Bottom Four The "Big Four" has a nice ring to it. It's a useful term to describe the four ACC schools in North Carolina. Their athletic traditions are tied intimately to each other, and to the league they helped create more than a half-century ago. During football season, however, "Big Four" has proven to be a misnomer. Statistically speaking, Duke and Wake Forest are two of the worst teams in Division I-A history. N.C. State hasn't captured the ACC gridiron title since 1979, UNC since 1980. This week, the ACC media assembled in Jacksonville, Fla., selected the Big Four as the "Bottom Four." The Wolfpack and the Demon Deacons were picked to finish fifth and sixth in the league's Atlantic Division. (See below for details.) The Tar Heels and the Blue Devils were chosen for fifth and sixth in the Coastal Division. "We can't blame (the media) or anyone else for that," Wake Forest coach Jim Grobe said. "Let's face it: We haven't won enough to force you to change your minds." Below are four reasons the Big Four have become the Bottom Four in ACC football over the last 25 years: 1. Snowball Effect/Expansion. Winning begets winning. Losing begets losing. Successful teams gain confidence, and successful programs have a much easier time attracting high-profile recruits. The top-ranked high school prospects become productive collegians at a higher rate than the relative unknowns. The resulting cycle is very difficult to break. In six seasons under Chuck Amato, N.C. State is 23-25 in the ACC and has never finished higher than fourth in the conference. In five years under John Bunting, UNC is 16-24 in the ACC and has been to only one bowl over the last four seasons. In five years under Grobe, Wake is 13-27 in the ACC and has been to just one bowl. In two-plus seasons under Ted Roof, Duke is 3-17 in the ACC and 5-22 overall. Coaches at Florida State, Miami and Virginia Tech can talk about competing for national titles and conference championships, then point to recent, specific examples to back up their claims. Georgia Tech (nine) and Boston College (seven) have two of the nation's longest-running bowl streaks. Maryland won 31 games over three seasons just a few years ago, and Clemson has been a popular pick this summer as an ACC title contender. Big Four coaches can talk all day long about those same goals, but in the end they have to ask recruits for a large leap of faith. The latter approach works sometimes, but the former works much better most of the time on the recruiting trail. 2. Bad Demographics. This factor has been discussed in this space many times, although it continues to receive little attention elsewhere. The bottom line is that pure demographics put the Division I-A football programs (ACC plus East Carolina) in the state of North Carolina at a significant disadvantage. Here's the breakdown of how many Division I-A signees the traditional ACC states produce on an annual basis, relative to the number of I-A programs in the state: Georgia 75 (150 signees, two teams) prospects per school, Florida 50 (350/7), Virginia 25 (50/2), Maryland 20 (40/2), South Carolina 20 (40/2), North Carolina 12 (60/5). Here's the breakdown when you limit the same numbers to only BCS-conference teams: Florida 87 (350/4) per school, Georgia 75 (150/2), Maryland 40 (40/1), Virginia 25 (50/2), South Carolina 20 (40/2), North Carolina 15 (60/4). Those numbers would be horrible news for North Carolina-based schools in any sport. But they're particularly alarming in football, a sport in which a high percentage of prospects want to attend a college that's within a reasonable driving distance from their homes, so their friends and family can see them play and experience game weekends in person on a regular basis. "The state of North Carolina has got outstanding high school football players in it, but can the population of the state handle four (ACC) schools, plus an East Carolina, plus the neighboring schools that are closer to the players than some of the in-state schools?" Amato asked. "I think that has an awful lot to do with it, really." 3. Coaching Turnover. As large, public universities, UNC and N.C. State have some built-in advantages over smaller, private schools such as Duke and Wake Forest. Unfortunately for in-state football fans, the Tar Heels and the Wolfpack also have the disadvantage of the highest staff turnover rates in the ACC. Amato and Bunting each have had only two constants on their nine-man staffs since their arrivals in 2000 and 2001, respectively. Their most talented aides -- offensive coordinator Norm Chow for the Wolfpack (2000), defensive coordinator Jon Tenuta for the Heels (2001) -- left for other jobs after only one season. Some of their successors -- Noel Mazzone for NCSU, Dave Huxtable for Carolina -- proved to be absolute disasters in absolutely vital roles. These things simply don't happen at great programs. Even the best transitions, especially at the coordinator spots, often involve a few steps backward before the big jump forward on the field, as players familiarize themselves with new plays and/or terminology. Off the field, every coach becomes a better recruiter as he cultivates relationships with high school coaches and becomes a more recognizable face in his designated areas. That delicate process is upset every time there's a coaching change. 4. Academic Requirements. According to statistics compiled in recent years by the ACC Sports Journal and ACCSports.com, Duke signs prospects with higher GPAs and SAT/ACT scores (on average) than any other football program in the ACC. Wake Forest also consistently ranks in the top third of the conference in that regard, and UNC usually finishes in the top half. Generally speaking, the fewer academic limitations a coach faces, the easier it is for him to build a quality program. This is especially true in football, where schools typically must find 20-25 signees each year who fit their unique academic profiles. That's a much easier task at schools (Auburn, Florida State, Louisville, Tennessee, West Virginia, etc.) that permit their coaches to enroll almost anyone who meets the NCAA's minimum academic requirements, and it's much tougher at those places that set the academic bar on a significantly higher rung. "We know the reality there," Roof said. "But that's Duke. That's an important part of who we are as a university. We can't use that as an excuse, and we won't." #### ACC PRESEASON MEDIA POLL RESULTS Atlantic Division Team (No. 1 votes), Pts. 1. Florida State (49), 373 2. Clemson (13), 322 3. Boston College (3), 269 4. Maryland, 163 5. N.C. State, 124 6. Wake Forest, 116 Coastal Division 1. Miami (52), 374 2. Virginia Tech (10), 316 3. Georgia Tech (3), 279 4. Virginia, 166 5. North Carolina, 165 6. Duke, 65 ACC Title-Game Winner Team, Pts. 1. Miami, 31 2. Florida State, 23 3. Clemson, 5 4. Virginia Tech, 5 5. Georgia Tech, 1"

[Edited on July 26, 2006 at 12:14 PM. Reason : .]

7/26/2006 12:13:11 PM

i like being the underdog

7/26/2006 1:50:05 PM

^ It's a shame you didn't wind up a Dook fan then.

Quote :

""The state of North Carolina has got outstanding high school football players in it, but can the population of the state handle four (ACC) schools, plus an East Carolina, plus the neighboring schools that are closer to the players than some of the in-state schools?" Amato asked. "I think that has an awful lot to do with it, really.""

Can someone tell Chuck the Chest he can't use the excuse of the state not producing enough football players for the five schools when he gets all his players from Florida anyway?

Quote :

""We know the reality there (about academics)," Roof said. "But that's Duke. That's an important part of who we are as a university. We can't use that as an excuse, and we won't.""

Do the world a favor Duke and either drop to I-AA or at the very least C-USA in football only. That way you can stay a basketball power at least while admitting your football program is worse than N.C. Central's.

[Edited on July 26, 2006 at 11:48 PM. Reason : .]

7/26/2006 11:43:14 PM

funny how people complain about amato not recruiting the state when florida has so much more talent.

7/26/2006 11:51:14 PM

i dont think people really understand the talent difference between NC and FL atheletes

7/27/2006 7:05:52 AM

^ It's not hard: # of FL athletes > # of NC athletes, and the second-tier FL athletes that Amato gets are generally better than NC's first-tier.

I wonder if having 8 different state championships deals with that?

I'm just saying when a small part of his team is from NC to start with, and it always has been that way with his recruiting, he can't use that excuse.

7/27/2006 7:37:53 AM

oh im not disagreeing im just saying ... our top recruits ... are florida's mid teir recruits.

7/27/2006 7:39:29 AM

Both of you are fucking idiots when in regards to NC and Florida recruiting and comparing them.

Are you saying Mario Williams, TA, Baker, Pressley, AJ (not to mention McCargo and Manny) + the ones UNC gets are only mid teir for Florida? You're an idiot.

Quote :

"Can someone tell Chuck the Chest he can't use the excuse of the state not producing enough football players for the five schools when he gets all his players from Florida anyway?"

It isn't like he doesn't recruit NC. Educate yourself:

http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2006/07/23/no-embarrasses-tsns-mike-farrell/

7/27/2006 9:26:29 AM

you had me until AJ .....


AJ was the best NC recruit in quite a while and he was mediocre at best. he got some hype in high school moved up the list and then ... well became an average college corner back.

it's not good when you're highest rated recruit is an average corner back and an at best top 25-10 college.

the other 3 listed are at best outliers...


not to distract from discussion but

Quote :

"(During the past five years) there have been 10 five-star players since 2002 and only three"

confused me. what does he mean ?

[Edited on July 27, 2006 at 9:33 AM. Reason : .]

7/27/2006 9:30:22 AM

What it is saying is that the last five years, there have been ten five-star (five-star = probably going pro) high school recruits. Three stayed in state, and all three went to NCSU.

Quote :

"Are you saying Mario Williams, TA, Baker, Pressley, AJ (not to mention McCargo and Manny) + the ones UNC gets are only mid teir for Florida? "

No, what I am saying is high school football in the state is a joke. And Chuck mainly gets his talent from Florida. He gets some NC players and if they are diamonds in the rough and actually turns out top-notch, the better for State.

The entire state had ten of these five-stars in five years. Now, how many five-stars has Florida had in that same timeframe?

Comparing NC to FL or TX or CA in football is like comparing Canada's military to the U.S. military.

7/27/2006 9:46:49 AM

thank you for expressing that better than I could

7/27/2006 9:53:23 AM

Quote :

"Can someone tell Chuck the Chest he can't use the excuse of the state not producing enough football players for the five schools when he gets all his players from Florida anyway?"

seems to me he gets his players from florida because of the lack of talent here. so its a pretty good excuse when all these people bash him for not having enough homegrown talent on the team

7/27/2006 10:13:20 AM

MARIO WILLIAMS IS THE ONLY ACC PLAYER EVER PICKED #1 IN THE NFL DRAFT

MARIO IS FROM NORTH CAROLINA YOU FUCKING DUMBASSES, NOT FLORIDA

7/27/2006 10:28:08 AM

^ WHO GIVES A S***! WE WERE 7-5 LAST YEAR AGAINST A SCHEDULE THAT INCLUDED EASTERN KENTUCKY AND MIDDLE TENNESSEE STATE WITH HIM!

[Edited on July 27, 2006 at 10:36 AM. Reason : .]

7/27/2006 10:31:30 AM

that comment was just addressing the people who think north carolina doesnt have any quality HS players

and yeah we went 7-5...what were we supposed to go, 11-1? you DO recall that Jay Davis started the year at QB correct?

7/27/2006 10:36:11 AM

Quote :

"you had me until AJ ..... AJ was the best NC recruit in quite a while and he was mediocre at best. he got some hype in high school moved up the list and then ... well became an average college corner back. it's not good when you're highest rated recruit is an average corner back and an at best top 25-10 college."

In quite awhile? TA and Baker were easily in the same league as AJ. He also broke his leg and had to take an entire year off, and he very well still could go pro if he has the year most think he will have.

Quote :

"No, what I am saying is high school football in the state is a joke. And Chuck mainly gets his talent from Florida. He gets some NC players and if they are diamonds in the rough and actually turns out top-notch, the better for State."

I wouldn't really call it a joke, thats a clear misuse of words. Plenty of worthwhile talent has come from NC. This isn't North Dakota, or Idaho, or some other state where you very well could call it a joke (whatever that means).
You said it yourself

Quote :

"It's not hard: # of FL athletes > # of NC athletes"

But does that make NC a joke?

Your original argument doesn't follow anyway

Quote :

"Can someone tell Chuck the Chest he can't use the excuse of the state not producing enough football players for the five schools when he gets all his players from Florida anyway?"

Durrr, the reason he recruits Florida is because the lack of talent, as it were. And as pointed out, he recruits the state anyway and tries to get the best. It is pretty dumb for him not to recruit Florida when he has all those connections there.

7/27/2006 10:40:56 AM

Quote :

"and yeah we went 7-5...what were we supposed to go, 11-1? "

If someone told you before last year we had three first round picks after the year was over, would you have guessed our record to be 7-5 or 11-1 between the two choices? It's not like our schedule is hard.

Bottom line: stop treating one-off flukes like Mario as a sign that we (North Carolina) are magically getting better. A blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. Our state still sucks at high school football, as do NC State, UNC, Wake Forest, Duke, and East Carolina in college.

^ How can these comments be true at the same time?

Quote :

"I wouldn't really call it a joke, thats a clear misuse of words. Plenty of worthwhile talent has come from NC. This isn't North Dakota, or Idaho, or some other state where you very well could call it a joke (whatever that means)."

Quote :

"Durrr, the reason he recruits Florida is because the lack of talent, as it were. And as pointed out, he recruits the state anyway and tries to get the best. It is pretty dumb for him not to recruit Florida when he has all those connections there."

How can we have worthwhile talent if there is a lack of it?

My original point was that Chuck Amato cannot use the excuse of five schools going after a small bucket of in-state talent, cause by and large that is not the first bucket he goes after - he goes after the scraps that Miami, Florida, and Florida State leave behind (19 Sunshiners on the roster according to gopack.com), random other states like Pennsylvania have some players, and then what our state has that are not blue-chippers are the remaining starters and the benchers. Although that discounts the fact that the best NC players usually don't go to NC schools cause they want to compete for a national championship or a BCS conference championship. (Don't flame me for that, the last ACC champion our state had was Duke as co-champion in 1989 to give you an idea how long ago it was. It's just reality.)

You can't bring up one player and say our state is just as good as any other, you have to judge based on the 100th or 200th best player in some mythical talent ranking to compare states. One guy can't make you win a football game, you have to have solid depth.

[Edited on July 27, 2006 at 11:07 AM. Reason : /]

7/27/2006 10:42:04 AM

keep hatin

7/27/2006 10:48:55 AM

And since you seem to like sucking off Florida so much, I did some googling and stumbled on a thread about 2002 5* recruits (across the country) and here is a list of them from Florida. Real serious guys in this list

CB 3 Devin Hester- drafted late
(Suncoast HS)
Riviera Beach, FL 5-11/170/4.35 Committed to Miami (Fl)

WR 6 Chris Davis- ??
(St. Petersburg Catholic School)
Saint Petersburg, FL 6-0/170/4.40 Committed to Florida State

WR 9 Dishon Platt- ??
(Charlotte HS)
Punta Gorda, FL 6-0/170/4.40 Committed to Florida State

WR 11 Ryan Moore- still in school; not lived up to hype but still has potantial
(Dr. Phillips HS)
Orlando, FL 6-3/188/4.40 Committed to Miami (Fl)

RB 13 Ciatrick Fason- 2nd year NFL player
(Duncan U. Fletcher HS)
Neptune Beach, FL 6-0/210/4.50 Committed to Florida

S 18 Pat Watkins- think he was drafted
(Lincoln HS)
Tallahassee, FL 6-3/195/4.45 Committed to Florida State

DT 27 Chris Anderson
(Mandarin HS)
Jacksonville, FL 6-3/270/4.90 Committed to Florida State

7/27/2006 10:52:50 AM

Quote :

" In quite awhile? TA and Baker were easily in the same league as AJ. He also broke his leg and had to take an entire year off, and he very well still could go pro if he has the year most think he will have."

do you understand the concept of quite a while ? it's a past tense term. I suppose i could have prefaced it with "At the time" to make it more clear but I guess I assume too much

and no. TA was no where near the caliber of recruit AJ was coming otu of high school. AJ was atop 10 national recruit and the number 1 corner in high school. TA was likened to the big kid in the school yard beating p on the little kids. he never got the kind of attention AJ did


since both TA and Baker gradutated -AFTER- AJ they were infact not prized recruits when AJ graduated. Thus, they shouldnt have entered into the conversation.

7/27/2006 10:53:47 AM

Quote :

"Bottom line: stop treating one-off flukes like Mario as a sign that we (North Carolina) are magically getting better. A blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. Our state still sucks at high school football, as do NC State, UNC, Wake Forest, Duke, and East Carolina in college."

I'm not threatening anything. Please stop takin shit out of context. It's pretty clear to me you can't form a coherent argument and I don't really expect you to. I'm done with this post.

You do realize if you take all the atheletes that NCSU and UNC splits, plus the ones that sneak into UT, VT, UVA, Clemson, and the occasional single serving decent guys going to Duke/WFU/SC and concentrate them into 1-3 schools only (FSU/Florida/Miami) then those teams are a perrenial power ever year.

7/27/2006 10:56:09 AM

threatening ? when did treating become threatening

7/27/2006 10:56:58 AM

eh, read it wrong, doesn't matter

Quote :

"AJ was atop 10 national recruit and the number 1 corner in high school."

Way to go, you just noobed all over yourself and lost credibility

http://nfldraft.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=1657

Quote :

"since both TA and Baker gradutated -AFTER- AJ they were infact not prized recruits when AJ graduated. Thus, they shouldnt have entered into the conversation."

touche, again, I didn't think slowly about what you were saying. Nonetheless, are you saying AJ was the best NC recruit that NCSU got, or the best out of North Carolina? This whole conversation is a little muddied between NCSU and NC High Schools.

7/27/2006 11:09:08 AM

was he 6 ? meh I thoght he was 1 I lose that one i agree.


either way I dont fucking know what we're argueing about now. I still say mario williams and aj et all are outliers to our generally mediocre crop of atheletes



in any event !! this thread should have ended when slack brain said a 1-AA school had a shot at being the best football team in the state

[Edited on July 27, 2006 at 11:12 AM. Reason : .]

7/27/2006 11:10:40 AM

NC State will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER be the best football team in the state

as long as the panthers are still around

7/27/2006 11:32:50 AM