Quote :

"So, were dinosaurs on the Ark? In Genesis 6:19–20, the Bible says that two of every sort of land vertebrate (seven of the “clean” animals) were brought by God to the Ark. Therefore, dinosaurs (land vertebrates) were represented on the Ark. How did those huge dinosaurs fit on the Ark? Although there are about 668 names of dinosaurs, there are perhaps only 55 different “kinds” of dinosaurs. Furthermore, not all dinosaurs were huge like the Brachiosaurus, and even those dinosaurs on the Ark were probably “teenagers” or young adults. Creationist researcher John Woodmorappe has calculated that Noah had on board with him representatives from about 8,000 animal genera (including some now-extinct animals), or around 16,000 individual animals. When you realize that horses, zebras, and donkeys are probably descended from the horse-like “kind”, Noah did not have to carry two sets of each such animal. Also, dogs, wolves, and coyotes are probably from a single canine “kind”, so hundreds of different dogs were not needed. According to Genesis 6:15, the Ark measured 300 x 50 x 30 cubits, which is about 460 x 75 x 44 feet, with a volume of about 1.52 million cubic feet. Researchers have shown that this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard railroad stock cars (US), each of which can hold 240 sheep. By the way, only 11% of all land animals are larger than a sheep. Without getting into all the math, the 16,000-plus animals would have occupied much less than half the space in the Ark (even allowing them some moving-around space). "

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2001/dinos_on_ark.asp

And those 'kinds' thus spawned other species via Godolution, not evolution.

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 2:09 PM. Reason : ghj467]

7/25/2006 2:04:11 PM

i thought noahs arc happened around the time jesus lived

dinosaurs are over 60 million years old

7/25/2006 2:05:39 PM

i wish i grew up in noah's time, it sounds like some badass land before time shit

7/25/2006 2:06:05 PM

i'm pretty sure dino's are over 65 million years old...

someone needs to check their facts

7/25/2006 2:12:00 PM

^^^no, Noah's ark is said to have happened waaaaay waaaaay before the time of Jesus.

and i don't think most creationists would argue against, say, a donkey and a zebra having common ancestry

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 2:14 PM. Reason : adasfasd]

7/25/2006 2:12:15 PM

you mean like the time of Sargon?

7/25/2006 2:12:45 PM

this here

this is some STRONG wood, gonna make a boat out of it

a boat for the LOURD

7/25/2006 2:13:29 PM

the floods happened 50,000BC according to history 207 with detreville

7/25/2006 2:18:38 PM

I bet he carved it by hand, from one block of wood.

7/25/2006 2:21:56 PM

The earth is only 6000 years old. Your teacher was wrong.

7/25/2006 2:22:01 PM

Quote :

"according to history 207 with detreville"

Lol, Detreville said that? She didn't strike me as the type.

7/25/2006 2:25:55 PM

Quote :

"When you realize that horses, zebras, and donkeys are probably descended from the horse-like “kind”, Noah did not have to carry two sets of each such animal. Also, dogs, wolves, and coyotes are probably from a single canine “kind”, so hundreds of different dogs were not needed. "

ummmmmmmmmmmmm isn't this evolution?

7/25/2006 2:27:25 PM

micro v. macro

7/25/2006 2:27:55 PM

Quote :

"dinosaurs are over 60 million years old "

^^^^

7/25/2006 2:31:04 PM

thats still macroevolution

Quote :

"horses, zebras, and donkeys are probably descended from the horse-like “kind”"

DESCENDED

those are seperate species

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 2:31 PM. Reason : ^^ wrong]

7/25/2006 2:31:33 PM

I thought creationists didn't belive in evolution at all?

besides, wouldn't micro evolution be the strongest evidence for macro evolution?

7/25/2006 2:32:06 PM

you guys are missing out on the funniest part of the whole shit

Quote :

"Creationist researcher John Woodmorappe has calculated "

7/25/2006 2:33:49 PM

Quote :

"horses, zebras, and donkeys are probably descended from the horse-like kind"

i bet that horses, zebras, and donkeys DNA similarities are along the same lines of humans in comparison to other primates.

7/25/2006 2:34:21 PM

^^he used a godulator.

7/25/2006 2:35:03 PM

haha

7/25/2006 2:42:32 PM

Quote :

"I thought creationists didn't belive in evolution at all?"

You would be wrong then. There is nothin exclusive about creationism and evolution at all. Both can coexist in the same belief structure.

7/25/2006 2:57:29 PM

^Many don't believe that

7/25/2006 3:00:20 PM

Quote :

"You would be wrong then. There is nothin exclusive about creationism and evolution at all. Both can coexist in the same belief structure."

i personally believe that, but i think hardcore creationists don't want to hear about evolution @ all.

7/25/2006 3:02:38 PM

Quote :

"You would be wrong then. There is nothin exclusive about creationism and evolution at all. Both can coexist in the same belief structure."

Sure I can tack vacuous beliefs onto all sorts of legitimate claims without changing their explanatory power.

I believe that evolution was guided by Unicorns. Prove me wrong.

7/25/2006 3:03:31 PM

How would one go about worshipping your unicorns?

7/25/2006 3:09:52 PM

If you attend my modestly-priced 90 minute seminar, I'll tell you that and more!

7/25/2006 3:13:04 PM

^^go to a place of worship w/ other unicornists, have a sermon, maybe pray a little to the almighty unicorn, and give a collection of 10% for the betterment of unicornists everywhere.

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 3:14 PM. Reason : ^^]

7/25/2006 3:13:55 PM

^^hahahaha EXACTLY

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 3:14 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2006 3:14:14 PM

I thought there was only one unicorn left?

This sounds like a scam.

7/25/2006 3:21:35 PM

dinosaurs and modern humans are separate by about 65 million years. there were no dinosaurs on noah's little boat.

7/25/2006 3:21:37 PM

pfft...

that's why he also made Noah's Dino Barge

duh

7/25/2006 3:22:20 PM

Link to the godulator:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/cubitscnv.html

7/25/2006 3:23:41 PM

[/thread]

7/25/2006 3:23:42 PM

I wonder how the tyrannosaurus "kind" got along with the ship's crew.

7/25/2006 3:25:09 PM

Quote :

"Link to the godulator"

that is fucking awesome.

7/25/2006 3:25:56 PM

dinosaurs were never on the Ark, genius

those bones were placed in the ground by Satan to make us doubt our faith

7/25/2006 4:24:17 PM

Quote :

"^^^no, Noah's ark is said to have happened waaaaay waaaaay before the time of Jesus. "

Now I'm going to make a bold, and incorrect assumption: if you believe that Noah's arc actually happened, then you are a young earth creationist, or at the least, you believe God put humans on the earth ~6,000 years ago, regardless of when the earth was actually created. I know it is incorrect to assume this because many people will select certain parts of the bible to believe, like Noah and The Flood, but not others, like the supposed age of the earth.

But according to the bible, these 'facts' are completely intertwined, so I cannot listen to a person who chooses to believe one of these parts, but not the other.

Genesis 5 traces the lineage from Adam to Noah:

Quote :

"3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 5 Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died. 6 When Seth had lived 105 years, he became the father of Enosh. 7 And after he became the father of Enosh, Seth lived 807 years and had other sons and daughters. 8 Altogether, Seth lived 912 years, and then he died. 9 When Enosh had lived 90 years, he became the father of Kenan. 10 And after he became the father of Kenan, Enosh lived 815 years and had other sons and daughters. 11 Altogether, Enosh lived 905 years, and then he died. 12 When Kenan had lived 70 years, he became the father of Mahalalel. 13 And after he became the father of Mahalalel, Kenan lived 840 years and had other sons and daughters. 14 Altogether, Kenan lived 910 years, and then he died. 15 When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he became the father of Jared. 16 And after he became the father of Jared, Mahalalel lived 830 years and had other sons and daughters. 17 Altogether, Mahalalel lived 895 years, and then he died. 18 When Jared had lived 162 years, he became the father of Enoch. 19 And after he became the father of Enoch, Jared lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 20 Altogether, Jared lived 962 years, and then he died. 21 When Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of Methuselah. 22 And after he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Altogether, Enoch lived 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away. 25 When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he became the father of Lamech. 26 And after he became the father of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and had other sons and daughters. 27 Altogether, Methuselah lived 969 years, and then he died. 28 When Lamech had lived 182 years, he had a son. 29 He named him Noah [c] and said, "He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the LORD has cursed." 30 After Noah was born, Lamech lived 595 years and had other sons and daughters. 31 Altogether, Lamech lived 777 years, and then he died. 32 After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham and Japheth. "

Therefore, if you believe that literally, then Noah lived ~1600 years after Adam.

I'll save you the details, but Genesis 11 details the lineage from Noah's son Shem to to Abraham. For whatever reason, after the flood people started having kids earlier, mostly in their 30's (but still lived to 200-400 years old), so it took only 390 years or so to get from Noah to Abraham.

Other passages show another 13 generations from Abraham to David, so again assuming a generation length of 30-35 years, that's another ~450 years.

So now depending on if you believe Matthew or Luke, it took another 27 or 43 generations, respectively, to get to Joseph and finally to Jesus, so that's anywhere from 1000-1500 years.
And we all know that jesus lived 2000 years ago, so the timeline we have up to now is:

Year 0: let there be light
Year 1600: noah and the flood
Year 2000: Abraham
Year 2500: David
Year 4000: Jesus
Year 6000: Today!!

So, no, unless you count 2,400 years as waaaaaayyy waaaayyy before Jesus, the Flood wasn't that long ago.
I'm going with the theory that the flood caused the dinosaurs to become extinct…..

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 4:37 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2006 4:35:17 PM

^^wait wait, i thought god just made them to appear 65 million years old, even after radiocarbon dating

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 4:37 PM. Reason : /.]

7/25/2006 4:36:15 PM

Quote :

"Dr Humphreys’ new creationist cosmology literally ‘falls out’ of the equations of GR, so long as one assumes that the universe has a boundary. In other words, that it has a center and an edge—that if you were to travel off into space, you would eventually come to a place beyond which there was no more matter. In this cosmology, the earth is near the center, as it appears to be as we look out into space. This might sound like common sense, as indeed it is, but all modern secular (big bang) cosmologies deny this. That is, they make arbitrary assumption (without any scientific necessity) that the universe has no boundaries—no edge and no center. In this assumed universe, every galaxy would be surrounded by galaxies spread evenly in all directions (on a large enough scale), and so, therefore, all the net gravitational forces cancel out. "

What is it with religion, specifically christian based beliefs and making the earth the center. why is this sooo necessary?!?! by the way a different article from the same site. talking about why would we see stars if the universe is only 10,000 years old. considering the speed of light would not show us that many stars if it had started such a short time ago.

7/25/2006 4:36:37 PM

The stars are just really small and a lot closer than we thought.

7/25/2006 4:47:42 PM

Quote :

"What is it with religion, specifically christian based beliefs and making the earth the center."

It has something to do with what my REL300 teacher called an "axis mundi." It's basically just a symbolic thing; you put your god or gods at the center, and therefore everything in the universe "revolves around" them. The earth is god's greatest creation, thus it is at the center of everything else. No matter what you do or where you go, you always know where the gods are, and therefore they are your bearings in life, your point of reference in relation to everything else.

In other words, it's egocentric, feel-good-about-yourself bullshit.

7/25/2006 4:53:54 PM

makes sense...^ this website at the very least is not the stupidest website ive ever seen, at the very least they try to explain themselves, kinda, ive actually seen some where every explination boils down to cause GOD did it. and it is written in the bible so there is not further explination needed.

7/25/2006 8:07:21 PM

I'm Christian, but I believe in the gradual evolution of life. I believe that the design God chose (evolution + natural selection) is much more worthy of praise than simply dumping us "from dust"


As such, I believe the parts of the Bible explaining the origin of life are either a) meant to be taken metaphorically or b) tacked on by people trying to explain the origin of nature, and are simply incorrect.

So, for me, there is no Adam/Eve, no Noah, and most of the Old Testament is overplayed stories, but still believe in the Trinity, and that Christ lived, died, and was resurrected.

Stop lumping us all together with the Southern Baptists. Most of us aren't young earthers.

7/25/2006 8:13:17 PM

^ that's good to hear. i think a lot of people are worried that they'll be shunned from the church if they speak such things as that. but the bible doesn't say anything about "you must believe that you are descended from Adam and Eve and ignore scientific advances to get into Heaven." It says "for god so loved the world, he gave his only begotton son, and whoever believeth in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life."

7/25/2006 9:22:04 PM

7/25/2006 10:39:44 PM

Quote :

"^^he used a godulator."

is that anything like the de-bigulator?

Quote :

"by the way a different article from the same site. talking about why would we see stars if the universe is only 10,000 years old. considering the speed of light would not show us that many stars if it had started such a short time ago."

Sure, if you make one fatal assumption. Namely, that the creator being just flipped his finger and the stars turned on and all light started then. Of course, anyone with half a brain (ironic in the context of my point, I know) should be able to see that if a being is capable of creating an entire fucking universe that he could probably go ahead and put some light rays into his creation that seem to emanate from stars so far away. Really, such an "article" goes to show just how nearsighted some "scientists" are. If anything, they are as equally nearsighted as those they ridicule and label frauds.

7/25/2006 11:41:51 PM

Quote :

"Sure, if you make one fatal assumption. Namely, that the creator being just flipped his finger and the stars turned on and all light started then. Of course, anyone with half a brain (ironic in the context of my point, I know) should be able to see that if a being is capable of creating an entire fucking universe that he could probably go ahead and put some light rays into his creation that seem to emanate from stars so far away. Really, such an "article" goes to show just how nearsighted some "scientists" are. If anything, they are as equally nearsighted as those they ridicule and label frauds."

THATS A LOGICAL CONTRADICTION. Youre pathetic.

You base your claim that God just flipped the star-light on THE PREMISE THAT YOU DENY -- that the universe's existence, age and immensness demostraites God's capability.

Arguing that God is so weak that he needs to create illusions instead of creating a discoverable immense complex universe is insulting to omnipotence. You simply distrust science becuase youve been indoctrinated, you never had the courage to challenge what youve been told, never sought truth, always accepted what you are told forgoing rational thought.

You do a real fucking diservice to theology.



[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 11:59 PM. Reason : 234]

7/25/2006 11:50:52 PM

anyone who literally beleives in the bible story of Noah's arc deserves to be kicked out of our institution of higher learning here at NC State

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 11:54 PM. Reason : l]

7/25/2006 11:54:07 PM

Quote :

"THATS A LOGICAL CONTRADICTION. Youre pathetic."

Care to explain how? How is it logically contradictory to suggest that a being capable of creation couldn't create something how he saw fit?

Quote :

"You base your claim that God just flipped the star-light on THE PREMISE THAT YOU DENY -- that the universe's existence, age and immensness demostraites God's capability"

Where did I state that god just "flipped the star light on?" In fact, the opposite is true. The author of the referenced article states that the light from the stars would not have reached us by now. Clearly, this is a claim that the stars were "flipped on" at the beginning of creation. I'm suggesting that this assumption is nearsighted.

Quote :

"You simply distrust science becuase youve been indoctrinated, you never had the courage to challenge what youve been told, never sought truth, always accepted what you are told forgoing rational thought."

Ironically, that couldn't be any further from the truth. You just assume that I am that because I have the wisdom to look at an argument based on ignorance [the referenced article] and call it out for its stupidity that I must automatically believe the opposite of what the article proposes.

Quote :

"You do a real fucking diservice to theology. "

And you do a real disservice to "science," and you only further my statement of:

Quote :

"Really, such an "article" goes to show just how nearsighted some "scientists" are. If anything, they are as equally nearsighted as those they ridicule and label frauds."

Quote :

"anyone who literally beleives in the bible story of Noah's arc deserves to be kicked out of our institution of higher learning here at NC State "

Religious intolerance and thought policing at it's best, ladies and gentleman. While you are at it, please pick up your yellow stars over here... Slavery is freedom!

7/26/2006 12:09:41 AM

Quote :

"Care to explain how? How is it logically contradictory to suggest that a being capable of creation couldn't create something how he saw fit?"

Quote :

"Arguing that God is so weak that he needs to create illusions instead of creating a discoverable immense complex universe is insulting to omnipotence."

Ok so youre saying God isnt omnipotent?

7/26/2006 12:12:09 AM