Someone sent me a pm asking what should be done now. My response:

************************************************************************
we need an immediate cease-fire.

america is not calling for one because it wants to give israel enough time to destroy hezbolla.

but that is short-sighted for at least 2 reasons:

1 - you cannot effectively destroy an underground organization--they will regroup and come back.

2 - the number of civilians being killed is forcing the various ethnic and religious groups of lebanon to set aside their differences and rally for hezbolla and against israel. this will only precipitate further hate and TERRORIST ATTACKS (against israel, US, UK, etc), which ironically, israel and the US are trying to prevent with israel's current push.

so, after the immediate cease-fire, an international force needs to be deployed on the border, and effective tools have to be given to the international community and lebanon to disarm hezbolla. lebanon cannot do it by itself.
************************************************************************

So we all know that if the US asked for a cease-fire and pressured Israel, it would obey, like the obedient (only to the US) bitch it is (or is it the other way around?). This view is strengthened by:

Quote :

"In response to US pressure after the strike, Israel announced a 48 hour cessation of air strikes against Lebanon."

But, it is not calling for one, because Aunti Condi wants to make a "new Middle East", and Uncle Bush says we shouldn't have a cease-fire just for the sake of having one, and that we need "sustainable peace", i.e., destruction of Hezbolla.

But, what damage is this doing to Israel, the US, and the UK? Everybody in the world is calling for a cease-fire except Bush and his poodle Yo Blair. Let's see:

Quote :

"We will now rig up the fire and retalliate with a venegance. We will send rockets and death to the Zionist enemy, who will pay for this crime. We will hit the US and Britain for supporting this massacre."

-- Hassan Nasarallah, head of Hezbollah

Quote :

"Islamic nations will not forgive the entities that hinder a cease-fire." He added, "It is not possible to stand helpless in front of this Israeli aggression on Lebanon. If an immediate cease-fire in this Israeli aggression is not imposed, dire consequences will befall the region."

-- Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, Iraq's top Shiite cleric

And various other less forceful statements by Hamas and Hezbollah.


So, in conclusion, if Bush is thinking this Israeli offensive (defensive? ) is going to lead to "sustainable peace" and that's why he is not calling for a cease-fire, well then, he is fucking stupid, short-sighted, and murderous**

This "murderous" analogy is very apt here, as per the standards of Israel-supporters:

Israel: Leave south Lebanon now.
Civilians: Some don't leave.

SO IT IS NOT ISRAEL'S FAULT!!! Because it told them to leave, they didn't, and they ended up dead. THEIR FAULT!!!

And now:

Hezbolla: Call for a cease-fire (to US, UK) or your citizens will not be safe.
US/UK: No, we won't.

SO IT IS NOT THE FAULT OF THE TERRORISTS!!! (that do the future bombings in the US/UK, because they are warning them now, and they are not heeding the warning, and so they will end up dead... THEIR FAULT!!!)

Hence, Bush is responsible for the deaths of the Lebanese civilians and the future deaths of American/British civilians, again, using the same pro-Israeli argument of "but they dropped leaflets".

But seriously, we need a cease-fire now for the reasons outlined at the beginning, and the subsequent steps I delineated.

There is no other solution that would lead to anything resembling "sustainable peace".

Edit: Seriously, it is terrible. Shiites, Sunnis, Christians, Arabs, non-Arabs, all of them in Lebanon are now supporting Hezbollah, when the traditional supporters have only been Shiites, and the other have more or less hated Hezbolla. They are cheering on Hezbollah, and future suicide-bombers are being made.

Is this what Israel is hoping to achieve?

[Edited on July 30, 2006 at 11:29 PM. Reason : ]

7/30/2006 11:24:40 PM

im really not happy with jews and muslims.

7/30/2006 11:29:51 PM

too many words

7/30/2006 11:30:59 PM

Quote :

"you cannot effectively destroy an underground organization--they will regroup and come back."

get outta town! i thought we could just make them surrender like a conventional army!

^if youre not willing to read & discuss, please refrain from arguing.

[Edited on July 30, 2006 at 11:35 PM. Reason : .]

7/30/2006 11:34:35 PM

Who said anything about Bush not calling for a ceasefire?


And do you really think the Arabs would stop suicide bombing civilians in Israel if there was a "ceasefire"?

7/30/2006 11:36:38 PM

stfu

7/30/2006 11:39:23 PM

^^are you insane???

Have you not even heard the controversy about US and UK not calling for a cease-fire, and vetoeing resolutions to that effect? They are giving Israel enough time to destroy Hezbollah.

Quote :

"And do you really think the Arabs would stop suicide bombing civilians in Israel if there was a "ceasefire"?"

I am talking about the current conflict. Hezbollah is NOT doing suicide bombings in Israel. That's another issue (Palestinians).

I am sure if Bush pressured Israel, and Israel stopped firing, so would Hezbollah.

[Edited on July 30, 2006 at 11:40 PM. Reason : ]

7/30/2006 11:40:05 PM

http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.323266981&par=0

7/30/2006 11:42:12 PM

Quote :

"I am sure if Bush pressured Israel, and Israel stopped firing, so would Hezbollah."

hahaha......yeah......kinda like how hezbollah has left israel alone in the past? even after israel withdrew??

they would stop firing for like two weeks then be right back at it

7/30/2006 11:55:00 PM

Quote :

"I am sure if Bush pressured Israel, and Israel stopped firing, so would Hezbollah."

What makes you so sure? Hezbollah are the ones that started this shit, because they were looking for a fight.

Lebanon would agree to a cease-fire in a heartbeat, but Hezbollah wouldn't recognize it and a month from now they'd be back to their terrorist tactics.



[Edited on July 30, 2006 at 11:56 PM. Reason : ^yeah, what he said]

7/30/2006 11:55:32 PM

Hezbollah is the party of peace and diplomacy, haven't you heard.

7/30/2006 11:56:28 PM

Quote :

"Hezbollah is the party of peace and diplomacy, haven't you heard."

yes yes...we know...they only exist to provide services and humanitarian aid to the lebonese....they are peaceloving group

7/30/2006 11:59:08 PM

Allah never said anything about killing infidels, you ignorant white people.

7/31/2006 12:00:09 AM

^^^^

This makes me sure:

Quote :

""BEIRUT, Lebanon - A senior Hezbollah official said Tuesday the guerrillas did not expect Israel to react with an all-out offensive after the capture of two soldiers, the first acknowledgment by the group that it had miscalculated the consequences of the raid two weeks ago. ADVERTISEMENT Mahmoud Komati, deputy chief of the Hezbollah's political arm, also told The Associated Press in an interview that the Shiite militant group will not lay down arms. "The truth is — let me say this clearly — we didn't even expect (this) response ... that (Israel) would exploit this operation for this big war against us," said Komati. He said Hezbollah had expected "the usual, limited response" from Israel after the two soldiers were seized by guerrillas on Israel's side of the border on July 12. In the past, he said, Israeli responses to Hezbollah actions included sending commandos into Lebanon, seizing Hezbollah officials and briefly targeting specific strongholds in southern Lebanon. Komati said his group had anticipated negotiations to swap the Israeli soldiers for three Lebanese held in Israeli jails, with Germany acting as a mediator as it has in past prisoner exchanges."

7/31/2006 12:04:47 AM

so you accept that they wanted to provoke a war.

7/31/2006 12:07:50 AM

Dude, it clearly says they miscalculated Israel's response, i.e., Hezbollah does not want to be fighting right now:

Komati said his group had anticipated negotiations to swap the Israeli soldiers for three Lebanese held in Israeli jails, with Germany acting as a mediator as it has in past prisoner exchanges.

7/31/2006 12:09:42 AM

Jesus

WHY PROVOKE?

7/31/2006 12:10:04 AM

yeah...they do want to be fighting....you are going to base your belief that they dont want to fight on a press release from a terrorist leader....get a clue...

if israel shows any mercy right now we will see this same situation in a year....no questions asked

7/31/2006 12:12:20 AM

Again, it is obvious why they did (not for the heck of it).

They want their 3 mates back from Israeli jails (I don't know why they are there).

So they took some Israeli soldiers, thinking Israel would agree to an exchange, like it has in the past.

Had they known Israel would all-out attack them, they wouldn't have taken those soldiers.

7/31/2006 12:12:47 AM

look at Hezbolla's peace loving flag, for pete's sake.

7/31/2006 12:12:57 AM

fuck it, time to end this shit

let israel do their shit

oh and one more thing, and this goes out to my fellow liberals:

don't even try to compare the killing in this war of 34 "innocent (read not yet brainwashed)" arab children to terrorist attacks, they aren't the same thing

the difference between these fucking religious fucknuts and us is this: if we had a weapon that would kill without killing any civilians that were innocent we'd use it. terrorists, even if they had that weapon, would still kill innocent people

innocent people always die, get over it, and don't act like you fucking care that some lebanese children died. we lose enough children in the us alone for you to worry about

[Edited on July 31, 2006 at 12:14 AM. Reason : bork]

7/31/2006 12:13:32 AM

right....forget about thier stated objective of wiping israel off the map...ALL they want is thier friends back so they can sit around and play Connect 4 on the weekends

7/31/2006 12:14:00 AM

I love how the Arabs talk about innocent people while supporting the same terrorist nations that directly funded 9/11

7/31/2006 12:14:58 AM

Quote :

"terrorists, even if they had that weapon, would still kill innocent people"

Thank you, Mr. Expert

I don't support killing of civilians BTW. But that's exactly why they do it, BECAUSE they don't have conventional military might to take on an army. So, they go for soft spots.

Still doesn't excuse it or make it any less heinous.

Quote :

"right....forget about thier stated objective of wiping israel off the map"

I think you are confusing Hamas and Hezbollah.

But then again, what can we expect from you, when you said that in ANY conflict in the world, at least one side is Muslim.

Quote :

"terrorist nations that directly funded 9/11"

Which nations are those? Because I don't think that even the investigation by the US labeled any countries.

[Edited on July 31, 2006 at 12:19 AM. Reason : ]

7/31/2006 12:16:26 AM

7/31/2006 12:19:52 AM

dude, I think it's futile arguing with you if you think Muslims are never on the evil side

7/31/2006 12:20:07 AM

Quote :

"I don't support killing of civilians BTW. But that's exactly why they do it, BECAUSE they don't have conventional military might to take on an army. So, they go for soft spots."

they don't hate the american military they hate americans

they kill americans. if they had a nuclear weapon they wouldn't drop it on camp lejuene or camp pendleton, they'd drop it on a major city. they hate our way of life, our ideals, our "morals".

7/31/2006 12:20:38 AM

gg, Cherokee

exactly

They AIM at civilians.

7/31/2006 12:21:34 AM

^^^

I never said, but I want you to answer my question. Which nations knowingly funded 9/11?

7/31/2006 12:23:28 AM

This is taken from http://www.kaihen.com

Dennis Miller on the Middle East
Dennis Miller is a comedian who had a show called Dennis Miller Live on HBO. He is not Jewish.

He recently said the following about the Mideast situation:

A brief overview of the situation is always valuable, so as a service to all Americans who still don't get it, I now offer you the story of the Middle East in just a few paragraphs, which is all you really need.

Here we go:

The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention

Before the Israelis won the land in the 1967 war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians."

As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the "Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation."

So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" anymore to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths, until someone points out they're being taped.

Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death."

I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters." Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more thing. No, they don't. They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David but if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living.

That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel. They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course -- that's where the real fun is -- but mostly they want Israel.

Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it -- for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth . . . you know that's really saying something.

It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about the great history and culture of the Muslim Midleast. Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.

Chew this around & spit it out: 500 million Arabs; 5 million Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that, if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, everyone will be pals.

Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea? Oh, that? We were just kidding.

My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the Numbers. Imagine 500 million Jews and 5 million Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it. Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not.

Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab State into the sea? Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible. Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting.

No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death.

Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that, with vital operations in Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a roomful of super models who've just had their drugs taken away.

However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of losing moral weight. We've already lost some. After September 11th, our president told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the countries that supported them. Beautiful. Then the Israelis, after months and months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day), start to do the same thing we did, and we tell them to show restraint.

If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we would all very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be done with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and east of the Jordan.

7/31/2006 12:23:33 AM

Nations don't fund events.

They fund terrorists.

And I am sure you know Al Queda isn't a charitable organization.

7/31/2006 12:25:07 AM

Quote :

"Thank you, Mr. Expert"

In every situation, hezbollah has used the most advanced weapons they have. It began with only getting rockets into extreme northern israel. Then they started to hit farter south. Now, with new weapons coming in from Iran, they can go all the way to Haifa. Its safe to say, if they have a more advanced weapon that will kill more people, they will use it.

Quote :

"But then again, what can we expect from you, when you said that in ANY conflict in the world, at least one side is Muslim."

again...show me where that is incorrect...im up for being corrected but noone has proven that statement wrong yet.....so pull your head out of the sand

7/31/2006 12:26:59 AM

That's a stupid article, fighting over semantics.

Palestinian schmestinian, doesn't matter what you call them. They were living there for 1000+ years, and that's a fact.

Do you think all countries were made or gained independence at the same time? if not, don't you think it is stipud to make statements "Palestine was not a country when the Jews came".

There were people there, or not? Doesn't the land belong to them? Or to people who left/were forced out 2000 years ago?

7/31/2006 12:28:39 AM

Quote :

"The US Government has been warned that Saudi Arabia is turning a blind eye to fundraising for the al-Qaeda network of Saudi-born militant Osama Bin Laden. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2336949.stm

For more information on funding:

http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/2005/Jan/comrasJan05.asp

[Edited on July 31, 2006 at 12:29 AM. Reason : bork]

7/31/2006 12:28:50 AM

Quote :

"They were living there for 1000+ years, and that's a fact. "

There was no Pakistan in Asia...and those Pakistanis kill Indians.

7/31/2006 12:29:58 AM

Quote :

"That's a stupid article, fighting over semantics. Palestinian schmestinian, doesn't matter what you call them. They were living there for 1000+ years, and that's a fact. Do you think all countries were made or gained independence at the same time? if not, don't you think it is stipud to make statements "Palestine was not a country when the Jews came"."

its the poor poor "palestinians" who make that an issue....blame them

7/31/2006 12:30:05 AM

^huh?

It is the Israel-supporters who make it an issue, saying as there was no country called Palestine when the Jews came, the Jews can do whatever they like. That might be OK 200 years ago like what the Americans and Australians did, but in today's world and morality, that's despicable.

Whether it was a country or not, there were people there. So the land belongs to them.

As for your stupid assertion, you CONVENIENTLY ignored my rebuttal in the very thread where you made that assertion:

Quote :

"wherever you find armed conflict...you will find muslims on one side or the other...is that not right??"

that's just such a gross exaggeration, it is astounding.

are you saying muslims are involved in armed conflicts/standoffs in europe (ireland, spain), africa (most of it), and latin and south america (all of it)? not to mention hundreds of other small/medium separatist groups in dozens of countries all over the world.

i think your statement should have been:

wherever you find armed conflict in countries/regions with muslims...you will find muslims on one side or the other...is that not right??

which is like saying:

wherever you find rivers, lakes, seas, or oceans, you will find water!!! IS THAT NOT RIGHT???

7/31/2006 12:35:39 AM

dont feed the trolls, especially the bigoted trolls

7/31/2006 12:37:34 AM

Quote :

"if they had a nuclear weapon they wouldn't drop it on camp lejuene or camp pendleton, they'd drop it on a major city."

this sounds familier....too familier

7/31/2006 12:38:16 AM

Quote :

"Whether it was a country or not, there were people there. So the land belongs to them."

So you support the annhiliation of undemocratic facist Pakistan?

7/31/2006 12:38:22 AM

Quote :

"It is the Israel-supporters who make it an issue, saying as there was no country called Palestine when the Jews came"

no...its not....its the "palesitinians" who make it an issue when they say "this land belongs to us!! the people of palestine!!...they stole it!!".....they are the ones who make the semantics an issue...blame them

Quote :

" are you saying muslims are involved in armed conflicts/standoffs in europe (ireland, spain), africa (most of it), and latin and south america (all of it)? not to mention hundreds of other small/medium separatist groups in dozens of countries all over the world. "

oh...and cxmai....so...i got a call from my grandma the other day...and she wanted me to ask you....


WHY DID YOU POST FAKE PICTURES??!!?!?

WHY DID YOU POST FAKE PICTURES??!!?!?

WHY DID YOU POST FAKE PICTURES??!!?!?

WHY DID YOU POST FAKE PICTURES??!!?!?

WHY DID YOU POST FAKE PICTURES??!!?!?

your right...let me say it like this...

wherever you find MAJOR conflicts anywhere in the world...you will find muslims on one side or the other...or on both...

[Edited on July 31, 2006 at 12:42 AM. Reason : asdf]

7/31/2006 12:40:14 AM

I disagree about Hezbollah's motivations. OEPII1 shows the article with a Hezbollah official saying that the entire war was a miscalculation. Yet there is an equally probable theory that Hezbollah took this bold action as a gamble to restrengthen their organization. With the Israeli withdrawal in 2000, Hezbollah has come under increasing pressure to dismantle its militia. It was being threatened with becoming yet another anonymous political party. With that threat place, what better way to "reshuffle the deck" than to provoke a new crisis. When one views it through that lense, this crisis has been a resounding success. Launch attacks from civilian areas, have the Israelis attack them, and eventually, the civilian casualties will win you the sympathy of the Middle East.

Sure, the Hezbollah official said that they never intended a war with Israel, but what better way to deflect attention? If Hezbollah came out directly and said that they wanted a new conflict with Israel to strengthen their hand, they risked earning the wrath of their Lebanese countrymen. Instead, they play "innocent" and shift blame for the escalating conflict on Israel.

That being said, I still think Israel is stupid for walking right into this.

7/31/2006 12:40:51 AM

^^^ cutting a country into two is different from displacing people.

[Edited on July 31, 2006 at 12:42 AM. Reason : ]

7/31/2006 12:41:03 AM

Lots of people were forcible displaced in that cutting up.

And we all know that Muslim Pakistan is now responsible for suice attacks, rail bombings, parliament bombings, and al qaeda training camps pre-9/11.

7/31/2006 12:42:48 AM

^whoa....muslims?? invloved in armed conflict?? ...no way

7/31/2006 12:43:33 AM

and if it was the year 326-1960 AD, it would be 'whoah' chirstians, involved in armed conflict? again?

[Edited on July 31, 2006 at 12:46 AM. Reason : 234 ]

7/31/2006 12:46:35 AM

the muslims in pakistan came from india fools. not europe. muslims are taken advantage of all over the world.

7/31/2006 12:46:53 AM

Muslims love peace y0

Fatwa is a western concept.

7/31/2006 12:47:09 AM

Quote :

"muslims are taken advantage of all over the world."

Say it after me

Durka durka bin al durkistan

7/31/2006 12:48:52 AM

soo...cxmai....

today...i put on Nirvana's unplugged record...only i played it backwards...and you know what i heard?...it was a question...it said....


WHY DID YOU POST FAKE PICTURES??!!?!?

WHY DID YOU POST FAKE PICTURES??!!?!?

WHY DID YOU POST FAKE PICTURES??!!?!?

WHY DID YOU POST FAKE PICTURES??!!?!?

WHY DID YOU POST FAKE PICTURES??!!?!?

7/31/2006 12:49:00 AM