Quote :

"Path to 9/11 graphic On September 10 and 11, ABC will air a “docudrama” called “The Path to 9/11.” "

I would actually like to see this before go bashing it

so that I can see their facts, and how they lay things out


I do think that in a major way clinton failed on the terrorism front......democrat or republican....you have to admit it

many chances to get osama, major budget cuts to inteligence groups (although some of that is the republicans fault also)

I think this may be kind of like michael moore's films though....some truth...but sometimes out of context

9/1/2006 10:40:46 PM

I do think that in a major way BUSH failed on the terrorism front......democrat or republican....you have to admit it

9/1/2006 10:42:57 PM

no...i dont...he was president for like 7 months before the attack....

i dont think he failed as in ...he is responsible for the failure..the government failed...he was caught like a deer in headlights

9/1/2006 11:09:52 PM

buck stops there.

9/1/2006 11:15:32 PM

I blame Carter. He set the standard for America's response (or lack thereof) to Islamic Militatants/Terrorists back in 1979. For twenty years they think they can do whatever they want to with little to no real repercussions.

9/1/2006 11:19:18 PM

The Bush administration cut requested anti-terrorism funds when they first entered office.

Quote :

" Newsweek reported that on Sept. 10, 2001, Ashcroft denied an FBI request for almost $60 million to hire more counterterrorism agents, analysts and translators. It was also reported that Ashcroft wanted to cut $65 million from a Department of Justice program to equip and train first responders in the event of an attack. It was former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill who reported that the main topic of the January 2001 National Security Council meeting was Iraq and the available military options. And former terrorism "czar" Richard Clarke said that on Sept. 12, 2001, Bush directed him to find out if the attacks were linked to Saddam Hussein, despite Clarke's -- accurate -- protest that it was "clearly" al-Qaida. Last year, Vanity Fair magazine reported that former British ambassador to the United States Christopher Meyer said that at a dinner soon after Sept. 11, Bush "made clear he was determined to topple Saddam," and the internal debate was about whether to attack Afghanistan or Iraq first. "

http://tinyurl.com/pk4uc



Let's compare the priorities of the Clinton administration with that of the Bush administration.

Clinton:




Bush:






The Bush administration ignored the terrorist threats, and marginalized those who wanted to alert them of the the dangers.



Oh...and the ignored presidential briefing, BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE IN US!

9/2/2006 12:06:58 AM

i know!! there were so many specifics in that briefing!!!....

things like ..time...date....location...they were all there!! and bush ignored them!!!!!!

9/2/2006 2:04:11 AM

^He didn't take it seriously.

Again, look at the priorities of the Bush administration when they came to office. Concerns about domestic terrorism wasn't even on the list of FBI priorities!

9/2/2006 2:06:23 AM

why did the terrorist cross the road?

9/2/2006 2:19:30 AM

What part of those memos says anything about ignoring threats??

and are you really going to try to paint clinton as the one who took al-queda seriuosly??....im not a clinton hater...i think he did alot of good things....but come on....he had like 3 chances to kill bin ladin and he didnt....just because terrorism is mentioned in a memo from his presidency doesnt mean ANYthing...

[Edited on September 2, 2006 at 7:49 AM. Reason : asdf]

9/2/2006 7:44:07 AM

^^^Al Qaida =/= "domestic terrorism"

[Edited on September 2, 2006 at 9:40 AM. Reason : ]

9/2/2006 9:40:03 AM

Quote :

"What part of those memos says anything about ignoring threats?? and are you really going to try to paint clinton as the one who took al-queda seriuosly??....im not a clinton hater...i think he did alot of good things....but come on........just because terrorism is mentioned in a memo from his presidency doesnt mean ANYthing... "

Based on the priorities laid out by Ashcroft. Did you notice terrorism was not on the list of priorities for the Bush administration, whereas it was the #1 priority of the Clinton administration as laid out by Janet Reno.

Quote :

"Clarke was the president's chief adviser on terrorism, yet it wasn't until Sept. 11 that he ever got to brief Mr. Bush on the subject. Clarke says that prior to Sept. 11, the administration didn't take the threat seriously. "We had a terrorist organization that was going after us! Al Qaeda. That should have been the first item on the agenda. And it was pushed back and back and back for months. "

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/19/60minutes/main607356.shtml

Even after 911, the Bush administration didn't want to invest in keeping us safe.

Quote :

"FBI Budget Squeezed After 9/11 Request for New Counterterror Funds Cut by Two-Thirds By Dana Milbank Washington Post Staff Writer Monday, March 22, 2004; Page A06 In the early days after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the Bush White House cut by nearly two-thirds an emergency request for counterterrorism funds by the FBI, an internal administration budget document shows. The document, dated Oct. 12, 2001, shows that the FBI requested $1.5 billion in additional funds to enhance its counterterrorism efforts with the creation of 2,024 positions. But the White House Office of Management and Budget cut that request to $531 million. Attorney General John D. Ashcroft, working within the White House limits, cut the FBI's request for items such as computer networking and foreign language intercepts by half, cut a cyber-security request by three quarters and eliminated entirely a request for "collaborative capabilities." "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A13541-2004Mar21?language=printer

Quote :

"he had like 3 chances to kill bin ladin and he didnt"

Please list the "3 chances", and back them up with some sources.


[Edited on September 2, 2006 at 10:42 AM. Reason : source]

9/2/2006 10:40:54 AM

Quote :

" New ABC Docudrama Blames Clinton For 9/11, Praises Bush Path to 9/11 graphic On September 10 and 11, ABC will air a “docudrama” called “The Path to 9/11.” It was written by Cyrus Nowrasteh, who describes himself as “more of a libertarian than a strict conservative,” and is giving interviews to hard-right sites like FrontPageMag to promote the film. What will it say about President Clinton? Here’s Rush Limbaugh with a preview: A friend of mine [Cyrus Nowrasteh] out in California has produced and filmed — I think it’s a two-part mini-series on 9/11 that ABC is going to run in prime-time over two nights, close to or on 9/11. It’s sort of surprising that ABC’s picked it up, to me. I’ve had a lot of people tell me about it, my friends told me about it…And from what I have been told, the film really zeros in on the shortcomings of the Clinton administration in doing anything about militant Islamofascism or terrorism during its administration. It cites failures of Bill Clinton and Madeleine Albright and Sandy Burglar. How does it deal with President Bush? Salon has a review: Condoleezza Rice gets that fated memo about planes flying into buildings, and makes it very clear to anyone who’ll listen just how concerned President Bush is about these terrorist threats — despite the fact that we’re given little concrete evidence of the president’s concern or interest in taking action. Maybe my memory fails me, but the only person I remember talking about Osama bin Laden back in 1998 was President Clinton, while the current anti-terrorist stalwarts worked the country into a frenzy over what? Blow jobs. In the end, “The Path to 9/11? feels like an excruciatingly long, winding and deceptive path, indeed. The director of the film, David Cunningham, is already backtracking about its accuracy, saying “this is not a documentary.” OK, fair enough. But the movie is being billed as “based on The 9/11 Commission Report.”"

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/01/abc-blame-clinton/

9/2/2006 10:48:50 AM

Quote :

" Please list the "3 chances", and back them up with some sources."

are you that stupid??...that you just ignore things that you dont like??

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1764035,00.html

if your too lazy to use google them im not going to list them....

and so WHAT if it was a number one priority for Reno....obviuosly clinton didnt take it seriously...im not trying to say that bush did....just come out of your liberal fantasy land for a few minutes and admit that neither did clinton

9/2/2006 11:19:44 AM

Quote :

"are you that stupid??...that you just ignore things that you dont like?? ...if your too lazy to use google them im not going to list them...."

I document my claims, I'm not going to do your work for you. Who's the lazy one here? BTW, can you present an argument without debasing yourself and resorting to ad-hominem attacks?

Quote :

"and so WHAT if it was a number one priority for Reno....obviuosly clinton didnt take it seriously...im not trying to say that bush did....just come out of your liberal fantasy land for a few minutes and admit that neither did clinton"

Clinton did take it seriously. He hunted down, prosecuted and imprisoned terrorists that attacked the US.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.htm

From the 911 Commission report:

Quote :

"These contacts with Sudan, which went on for years, have become a source of controversy. Former Sudanese officials claim that Sudan offered to expel Bin Ladin to the United States. Clinton administration officials deny ever receiving such an offer. We have not found any reliable evidence to support the Sudanese claim."

http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/staff_statement_5.pdf

Quote :

"http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1764035,00.html"

From your own reference:

Quote :

"On one occasion a satellite photographed the Al-Qaeda leader on a hunting trip, but the White House ordered the CIA not to launch a missile attack after finding out that princes from a friendly Arab country were in his party."

You know what "friendly Arab country" those princes were from? That's right, the United Arab Emirates. The same nation that Bush wanted to hand over control of our ports!

9/2/2006 11:40:44 AM

Nope...all of that doesnt matter...

come off your liberal high horse and admit it...clinton didnt take terrorism seriously because he had numberous chances to kill bin ladan and didnt....

will you at least admit thats true??...or will yout lazy liberal blinders not allow it??

9/2/2006 11:43:51 AM

you know what?? ...im done with this...

i feel like a typical liberal...arguing about something that is not really important anymore and pointing fingers at everyone...
you started all this crap when you fell into your normal liberal approach of "clinton did everything right and bush did everything wrong" stuff...it was to be expected

i cant believe i got sucked into it...but when talking to pryderi...i always leave thinking one thing...:"please keep it up"...like i know he cant allow this to be the last post about it...he will have to post more articles about clinton really being jesus christ or something like that....so by all means pryderi...keep up it...

9/2/2006 12:08:01 PM

^ agree


bush messed up some

clinton messed up some

Carter def messed up


but just admit that clinton wasn't perfect

9/2/2006 12:37:10 PM

the military-industrial complex didnt fail

9/2/2006 1:06:13 PM

Quote :

"just come out of your liberal fantasy land for a few minutes"

Quote :

"or will yout lazy liberal blinders not allow it"

Quote :

"i feel like a typical liberal...arguing about something that is not really important anymore and pointing fingers at everyone"

Quote :

"you fell into your normal liberal approach of "clinton did everything right and bush did everything wrong""

When in doubt, BLAME LIBERALS!

9/2/2006 1:32:51 PM

I'm sick of people blaming Clinton when Bush fucks up.

9/2/2006 6:46:18 PM

did clinton get it all right???

yes or no??

better yet....what do you propose we do now pryderi??

[Edited on September 2, 2006 at 6:51 PM. Reason : asdf]

9/2/2006 6:46:52 PM

We get out of Iraq and put those resources to better use.

9/2/2006 6:57:51 PM

what will that accomplish??

and will you admit that clinton didnt get everything right all the time??

9/2/2006 6:59:31 PM

I'm sick of people blaming Clinton Bush when Bush Clinton fucksed up.

9/2/2006 6:59:34 PM

yeah clinton, shame on you for not having bin laden killed

SHAME ON YOU FOR NOT WILLFULLY BREAKING REAGAN'S EXECUTIVE ORDER 12333

9/2/2006 7:30:29 PM

why didnt bush have bin laden killed after 911?

9/2/2006 7:34:17 PM

duh....the executive order...i mean...if its a good enough reason for clinton it should be good enough for bush...


am i right??

9/2/2006 7:40:03 PM

You do know that Clinton had an opportunity to arrest (not kill, so not violating any executive order) bin Ladin and he passed on it right?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A61251-2001Oct2

Granted, he feels his hands were tied administratively at the time, but there was an opportunity to arrest someone who we already knew had direct links to terrorist attacks

Do I think that the blame falls directly on Clinton? No, I don't.
But if we used the same standards that many liberals would like to use on Bush, then it was his fault.

The failings our government has had over terrorism has stretched MANY administrations and there can be placed some blame on every president and every agency.

This finger pointing is just useless baiting that takes place of real debate during election years.

9/2/2006 7:44:57 PM

Quote :

"You do know that Clinton had an opportunity to arrest (not kill, so not violating any executive order) bin Ladin and he passed on it right? "

same for bush

9/2/2006 7:48:43 PM

yay!!!

josh admits that clinton made the same screw up as bush!!!

congrats buddy...

9/2/2006 7:50:37 PM

I had the weirdest idea. Maybe neither of them did as much as possible because the notion of islamic terrorists conducting a massive strike within the US didn't seem that likely prior to 9/11.

Or just keep it partisan and insist that your guy did it right and the other guy did it wrong.

9/2/2006 7:52:35 PM

talk to the libs...the conservatives in here are not contending that bush didnt mess up...

pryderi and the like are the ones saying that clinton did it all perfect and bush screwed it all up...

9/2/2006 7:53:59 PM

yay!!!

trick admits that bush made the same screw up as clin-ton!!!

congrats buddy...

9/2/2006 8:26:20 PM

have you read the rest of this thread josh??

obviously not.....typical

9/2/2006 8:31:19 PM

yea people really care about your epiphany

9/2/2006 8:41:11 PM

i know...its nuts...

9/2/2006 8:44:19 PM

Who was president on 911?

9/2/2006 11:01:27 PM

The Civil War was all Lincoln's fault.

[Edited on September 3, 2006 at 2:56 AM. Reason : and WWII was Truman's fault]

9/3/2006 2:53:32 AM

nobody started a war

they flew jets into buildings then went back to their caves

[Edited on September 3, 2006 at 3:06 AM. Reason : sdfgsdf]

9/3/2006 3:05:59 AM

Quote :

"Who was president on 911? "

case in point....keep it up, sport....keep it up

9/3/2006 3:09:23 AM

Gosh I hate George Bush so much

9/3/2006 12:49:57 PM

I do wonder at least why Bush didn't make terrorism a bigger priority when he came into office considering we'd just been attacked by Osama Bin Laden four months prior to his swearing in. Clinton waited until the day after the election to respond to the USS Cole attack for fear of "wagging the dog." We killed a terrorist, and an American, with a UAV drone, but ended up leaving the rest to the Yemeni government, even after Bush took office two months later and started talking about the Missile Defense Shield.

Turns out the Yemeni solution wasn't a good one. Thirteen of the plotters of the USS Cole attack escaped from Yemeni prison in February of this year.

I don't think either administration really had a clear strategy at the time, frankly. Respecting national sovereignty was a greater issue then than it is today. And I think it took 9/11 for that to end.

[Edited on September 3, 2006 at 3:15 PM. Reason : .]

9/3/2006 3:13:52 PM

Quote :

"The Bush administration ignored the issue of terrorism from the moment it assumed office: * They ignored the final report of the Hart-Rudman commission, the Road Map for National Security: Imperative for Change, that was issued on January 31, 2001 * They blocked Senate hearings on the Hart-Rudman commission's report, scheduled for the week of May 7, 2001, by announcing a brand new commission led by Vice President Dick Cheney - which never met before 911 * They ignored repeated requests from the Hart-Rudman commission from January 2001 to September 6, 2001, when National Security adviser Condoleezza Rice said she would "pass on" their concerns * They ignored repeated requests from Senator Dianne Feinstein to restructure US counter-terrorism and homeland defense programs, starting in July 2001 and continuing through September 10, 2001, when Dick Cheney's Chief of Staff told Feinstein to wait 6 months * They ignored the report of the Gore Commission on Aviation Safety and Security The Bush administration changed Bill Clinton's policy towards Afghanistant to appease Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and their Saudi backers to promote the interests of oil companies, putting profits for campaign contributors ahead of fighting terrorism: * They prevented FBI terrorism experts from investigating Saudi Arabian ties to Al Qaeda before 911, leading to the resignation of FBI Deputy Director John O'Neill only two weeks before 911 * They ordered the Naval Strike Force - which President Clinton deployed near Afghanistan on 24-hour alert in order to strike Osama Bin Laden - to "stand down" before 911 * They gave $43 million to the Taliban in April 2001 When appeasement failed, the Bush administration then prepared for war against Afghanistan: * They issued an ultimatum to the Taliban in July 2001, telling them to turn over Osama Bin Laden and permit Unocal to build a pipeline across Afghanistan in return for a "carpet of gold" - or face a "carpet of bombs" * They prepared a National Security Presidential Directive on September 9, 2001, a detailed "game plan to remove al-Qaida from the face of the Earth" The Bush administration ignored numerous warnings from US and foreign agencies: * They ignored warnings as early as June from the National Security Agency's Echelon electronic spy network that Middle Eastern terrorists were planning to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of American and Israeli culture * They ignored warnings from an FBI agent in Phoenix on July 10, 2001 about suspicious Arab pilots with ties to Al Qaeda who were training in a local flight school, urging a nationwide investigation of Arab students in flight schools * Bush personally ignored warnings from the CIA on August 6, 2001 that Al Qaeda planned to hijack US planes * They ignored warnings from Jordanian intelligence in the summer that a major attack was planned inside the US using airplanes * They ignored warnings from Israeli intelligence in August that large-scale terrorist attacks on highly visible targets on the American mainland were imminent, organized by a cell of as many of 200 terrorists said to be preparing a big operation * They ignored warnings from Russian intelligence in August that at least 25 terrorist were trained in Afghanistan and Pakistan to attack US targets, with future plans to attack financial, nuclear, and space facilities * They ignored warnings from Moroccan intelligence in August that Bin Laden was "very disappointed" by the failure of the 1993 WTC bombing, and planned "large-scale operations in New York in the summer or autumn of 2001" * They rejected a search warrant requests by FBI agents in Minneapolis for Moussaoui's computer disk * They ignored warnings from Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak on August 31 of an impending attack on the US * They ignored phone calls from Abu Zubaida, bin Laden's chief of operations, to the United States that were intercepted by the National Security Agency shortly before 911 * They ignored an extroardinary number of "puts" on the stocks which were hardest hit by the 911 attacks, including American and United airlines, in the days leading up to 911 The Bush administration failed to take meaningful precautions against a terrorist attack when so many warnings were being issued: * Bush went on vacation for the month of August, after only six months on the job * They allowed counterterrorism agencies to "stand down" from the highest level of alert before August 6, 2001, despite repeated warnings from CIA director George Tenet * The FAA knew about concerns that Moussaiou would hijack a 747 in August 2001, but failed to warn the airlines * They failed to assign more sky marshalls or to make cockpit doors more secure * They changed FAA policy to prohibit pilots from carrying guns * They failed to increase the readiness levels of our Air Defense On 911, Bush failed to take decisive action: * George W. Bush said on two occasions that he saw the first plane hit the World Trade Center at 8:46 a.m. on 911, and was told by Andrew Card about the second plane hitting the World Trade Center at 9:05 a.m. - yet Bush did nothing but listen to a children's story until 9:30 a.m. instead of ordering fighter jets to intercept all hijacked planes immediately * George W. Bush and Dick Cheney ordered the Pentagon to shoot down Flight 93 over Pennsylvania at 9:55 a.m., but could have shot down the other three flights if they had not waited so long to act Following 911, Bush used the tragedy to promote the agenda of his wealthy and powerful supporters: * Bush pushed through the USA Patriot Act, which rewarded right-wing opponents of freedom and civil liberties * Bush demanded additional tax cuts for the wealthy using the pretense of "stimulating" the economy * Bush massively increased defense spending, to the direct personal benefit of his father and his cronies in the Carlyle Group To cover up his failures, the Bush administration resorted to stonewalling, fingerpointing, and lies about 911: They have continually lied about the extent of the warnings about the 911 attack * Shortly after 911, Ari Fleischer declared flatly that there were "no warnings" * When it was revealed in May 2002 that the CIA briefed Bush personally on August 6, 2001, they claimed that the briefing did not address terrorist attacks in the US; then they claimed it was a "low-level" briefing based on only one warning Condoleezza Rice said, "I don't think anyone could have predicted that these people... would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile." (5/16/02) * The Pentagon commissioned a study in 1993 called "Terrorism 2000", which predicted multiple simultaneous attacks, the use of airplanes as weapons, targeting of large landmarks and financial centers, etc. * A Fedex employee tried to crash a DC-10 into FedEx HQ in Memphis in 1994, but was apprehended * An Islamic fundamentalist group hijacked an Air France flight and loaded it with 27 tons of fuel to destroy the Eiffel Tower, but special forces stormed the plane on the ground * Abdul Hakim Murad and Ramsey Yousef conceived of 'Project Bojinka' in 1995, a plan to blow up 11 US airline flights over the Pacific in 1995, and to crash airplanes into the Pentagon and the CIA, which definitely caught the attention of counter-terrorism experts in the US * The Library of Congress Report on The Sociology And Psychology Of Terrorism warned in 1999 about suicide hijackers * The Pentagon conducted a drill in December 2000 to respond to an airline crashing into the Pentagon * U.S. and Italian officials were warned in July 2001 that Islamic terrorists might attempt to kill President Bush and other leaders by crashing an airliner into the Genoa summit of industrialized nations They did everything possible to block an independent commission investigation * Bush and Cheney personally called Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle urging him not to conduct an investigation * When pressure for an independent commission became too strong, they suddenly announced warnings of another attack - although they did not raise the official alert level above yellow, leading to widespread speculation of a deliberately false alarm to stop the momentum * When the Independent Commission finally began its work, Bush used Nixon's dictatorial doctrine of "Executive Privilege" to deny commissioners access to crucial documents "

9/3/2006 5:12:45 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "You do know that Clinton had an opportunity to arrest (not kill, so not violating any executive order) bin Ladin and he passed on it right? " same for bush"

Josh, can you support this? I am not saying Bush hasn't fucked up a lot of issues involving terrorism, but I would like you to point me to the point where a government called up Bush and was like "Want us to arrest bin Ladin?" and he was like "No thanks, its really not politically expedient right now"

9/3/2006 7:17:38 PM

^find us a time machine and we're in business

clinton had no reason to believe bin laden was such a major threat, just a bush didnt. the point is, only one of those people were president for 6 years after 911 and still hasnt found bin laden.

9/3/2006 7:23:57 PM

I blame reagan, shouldnt have cut and run

9/3/2006 7:40:52 PM

When the first WTC bombing occurred in February 26, 1993 only one month after assuming office, Clinton didn't blame Bush 1, he manned up, hunted down, prosecuted and imprisoned the terrorists.

Bush and his supporters cry, whine and blame Clinton for 911 while Osama bin Laden is free to plan future attacks.

9/4/2006 12:58:27 AM

Quote :

"When the first WTC bombing occurred in February 26, 1993 only one month after assuming office, Clinton didn't blame Bush 1, he manned up, hunted down, prosecuted and imprisoned the terrorists."

Clinton caught every single person involved, and there hasn't been an incidence of terrorism on american soil ever since! Thanks!

Pryderi, I would respect your opinion a whole helluva lot more if the crux of every one of your arguments wasn't "Clinton=Jesus. Bush=Satan"

Heaven forbid that an issue weren't black and white.

9/4/2006 5:41:50 AM

Quote :

"Clinton caught every single person involved, and there hasn't been an incidence of terrorism on american soil ever since! Thanks!"

I would respect you more if you had a semblence of an argument.

9/4/2006 11:02:32 AM