So I had a meeting today where I was explaining why we are using Cold Fusion instead of php and a hard core php self proclaimed expert was saying how stupid and cost inefficient it is... etc. Now the entire time I was stating that I wasn't saying php was bad but for our purposes its better suites us.

He goes "prove it". So I ask him to write a basic query using a select all statement.

When he finished he suddenly realized I had finished long before him and was 1/4 the way through a Sodoku puzzle.

I then asked him to write an if then statement, and creation of a session variable.

The Sodoku was finished by the time he finished. (yes it was an easy sodoku).

So I got my point across. That while php can do everything Cold Fusion can do and more, for our needs, Cold Fusion does everything we need and it does it faster. Just thought you guys might get a laugh out of this.

9/15/2006 8:15:30 AM

what's funny?

9/15/2006 8:27:53 AM

It's funny because he is still using cold fusion, a dead technology.

9/15/2006 9:13:24 AM

To do the same things it took him almost 5 times longer. For our needs, development time would be faster which means less cost on development, the built in features and plugins for cold fusion more than exceed any needs we have so we don't have to spend time figuring out how to do things.

A good comparison would be that PHP is the incredients to grandma's biscuits. You know you can make some great grandma's biscuits with it but you have to mix the flour, beat the eggs, roll the dough etc... and in the end you have awesome grandma's biscuits. You can then take the biscuits and make ham biscuits, sausage, egg and cheese... anything you want.

Cold Fusion is grandma's biscuits in the frozen section in the grocery store. Just as good as grandma's biscuits but instead of focusing on making the biscuits you can just put on the jelly, add an egg and eat.

I've yet to run into anything I can't do in Cold Fusion that php can do. And I can do it much faster. But if you're comp sci major you'd probably think Cold Fusion is too much of an easy tool to use at first glance.

9/15/2006 9:14:27 AM

dead eh? hmm amazing that it's being used by over half of NCSU and 90% of federal agencies in NC use it.

APHIS
CPHIST
CIPM
...

should i continue? Please place your foot in your mouth now.

9/15/2006 9:16:07 AM

you sound like a prick in real life

9/15/2006 9:48:19 AM

we use ColdFusion for all of our consulting services in my office.

9/15/2006 9:57:11 AM

Quote :

"He goes "prove it". So I ask him to write a basic query using a select all statement. When he finished he suddenly realized I had finished long before him and was 1/4 the way through a Sodoku puzzle. I then asked him to write an if then statement, and creation of a session variable. The Sodoku was finished by the time he finished. (yes it was an easy sodoku). "

Just because the guy you were talking to was a moron, doesn't mean ColdFusion sucks any less. I'd be interested to see what you actually told him to do.

9/15/2006 10:02:31 AM

lol nice, fighting fief-dome inefficiency's!

php is probably more flexible though... so in the long run (very long run) a php setup might work better.... but i dunno what you are trying to do with it....

9/15/2006 10:04:43 AM

I completely agree that PHP is more versitile, and runs more efficiently. There's no fight from me there

But when it comes to development time and available built in features for a website there's no comparison. Cold fusion beats the crap out of php.

With our needs, we need it done fast, reliable, and feature rich. We do not have the time to develop these things on our own nor do I want to.

My point with him was that there is no reason to work 10 times harder to produce the same effect.

[Edited on September 15, 2006 at 10:46 AM. Reason : 1 ]

9/15/2006 10:46:14 AM

I don't understand how ColdFusion can be a ton easier than:

$_SESSION['Name'] = 'value';

and

if ($true){

} else {

}

or echo ($true) ? 'true' : 'false';

When it comes to setting a session variable and writing an if-else statement

9/15/2006 1:21:04 PM

well, it's easier because it reads easier and there are less symbols to mess up, here's a highly simplified example ...

<cfset Session.NAME = "VALUE">

and for if-else ...

<cfif EXPRESSION>
...do...
<cfelseif EXPRESSION>
...do...
<cfelse>
...do...
</cfif>

or there's the case method ...

<cfswitch expression = #VARIABLE#>
<cfcase value = "SOMEVALUE">
...do...
</cfcase>
<cfcase value = "ANOTHERVALUE">
...do...
</cfcase>
<cfdefaultcase>
...do...
</cfdefaultcase>
</cfswitch>

just overall easier to read and understand, hard to screw up, that's why it's appealing.

[Edited on September 15, 2006 at 1:41 PM. Reason : but it's been years since doing any coldfusion work]

9/15/2006 1:39:41 PM

Quote :

"php is probably more flexible though"

ColdFusion is built on top of Java. Anything you can do in Java, you can do in ColdFusion.

9/15/2006 1:42:51 PM

Quote :

"well, it's easier because it reads easier and there are less symbols to mess up, here's a highly simplified example ..."

You're kidding me, right?

9/15/2006 2:50:56 PM

ColdFusion doesn't look easier/quicker to me. Looks more like you proved you are quicker, than ColdFusion is quicker.

[Edited on September 15, 2006 at 2:57 PM. Reason : ?]

9/15/2006 2:56:19 PM

^^ code readability is important when you have multiple people working on each other's code

9/15/2006 3:02:05 PM

this is what commenting is for.

9/15/2006 3:05:32 PM

if you hadn't noticed people seem allergic to commenting

9/15/2006 3:15:06 PM

^4, ^5 ... you both misunderstand what i meant, and DonMega said exactly right. coldfusion is used mostly in a corporate or large-scale project environment where you have more than just a couple people working at it. it becomes very important to quickly find/fix/update anything without calling in the original dude that made it. cold fusion is geared towards that, about everything you do is going to look the same, and it's all very humanly readable. take the php example for if/else above, sure you can read it if you know what's it's doing, but there are more than one ways to fry that catfish with php and code deviation becomes a problem with the more persons working on it. it also happens that coldfusion is $texas and heavily supported by Allaire Macromedia Adobe, companies like support ... which means there is $texas for you if you know coldfusion.

^^ commenting, Arab13 said it before i could.

[Edited on September 15, 2006 at 3:30 PM. Reason : commenting]

9/15/2006 3:30:16 PM

Arg. This went from a very humorous situation that I apparently failed miserably describing to being a Cold Fusion vs php post which this isn't meant to be.

I am Cold Fusion biased because I don't believe in wasting time on menial crap. Php is full of that in my opinion. You have to make everything from scratch. Cold fusion has so much shit built in that it blows php away.

Sure php has modules you can use but they are all code side. No server side things. YOU try to convince any admin to install server side php modules for custom tags. Not gonna happen. So your code become bloated and you have includes inside includes inside includes etc...

Having someone come up needing a database driven form I can usually have it out in a couple hours even if it needs a login system because it's so damn easy to code in it. Most people don't realize that the cost you save on labor time with php pays for Cold Fusion.

It simplifies things down to having built in javascripts to validate data types submitted to a query so you don't have to do it. SQL injection attacks? No problem. If for some reason the validation doesn't get it the sql verification does in cold fusion. I could spent days explaining how much faster it is on just the fundamental level.

I'm not a jerk btw. I'm actually one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. I just hate blatent hatred of a something because you don't know enough about it.

EDIT: Take a look at Cold Fusion 7 and tell me it doesn't have a lot of cool shit.
http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/

Here's a list of the functions and tags that are built into Cold fusion (I suggest the <cfinput> and <cfmail> tags for a basic understanding of the approach Cold Fusion has to coding.
Tags - http://www.adobe.com/livedocs/coldfusion/7/htmldocs/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?context=ColdFusion_Documentation&file=part_cfm.htm

Functions http://www.adobe.com/livedocs/coldfusion/7/htmldocs/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?context=ColdFusion_Documentation&file=part_cfm.htm

[Edited on September 15, 2006 at 3:47 PM. Reason : Additional information]

9/15/2006 3:42:23 PM

COLD FUSION SUCKS

9/15/2006 3:55:20 PM

yer mom!

9/15/2006 3:55:36 PM

9/15/2006 3:57:28 PM

Quote :

"Having someone come up needing a database driven form I can usually have it out in a couple hours even if it needs a login system because it's so damn easy to code in it."

OH WOW

REALLY?

So can anyone using PHP.

I'm still baffled by the "less symbols to mess up" comment.

9/15/2006 4:07:23 PM

^ i could've worded that better ... i meant to say that in coldfusion, there are a lot less symbols, operators, whatever you wish to call them, such as ; { } $ that all have a meaning without words. generally that's not the case in coldfusion, where about everything is worded except for the <tags> and #variables#, it all looks very HTMLish, and therefore can appear far less confusing as it all looks the same.

PHP is nice and concise and easy to read when you really know what's going on. i like that i can shrink longer actions down to a couple symbols. it's definitely more efficient for a one man show.

[Edited on September 15, 2006 at 4:20 PM. Reason : yea, <tags> are htmlish, don't read too far into it ]

9/15/2006 4:18:46 PM

cfif vs. if

cfelse vs. else


Wheres the arguement for readability coming in???

sounds like cf is an overkill there too.

9/15/2006 4:19:05 PM

You mean

<cfif />

vs

if

Not to mention that you probably have to do something dumb like

<cfif 1 &lt; 2 >

[Edited on September 15, 2006 at 4:40 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2006 4:39:59 PM

^ why are you arguing against coldfusion when you have never tried it out?

9/15/2006 5:16:13 PM

Quote :

"dead eh? hmm amazing that it's being used by over half of NCSU and 90% of federal agencies in NC use it. APHIS CPHIST CIPM"

All models of great technology and innovation

A dead end technology is great if you want to do yesterday's business and have no plans to innovate any time in the near future. That's a perfect match for backward government organizations.

9/15/2006 6:11:24 PM

^^ For the same reason Raige, for the millionth time, is arguing against PHP despite knowing jackshit about it.

I'm really just arguing that anyone with half a brain isn't going to be offput by seeing

if () { } instead

<cfif EXPRESSION>
<cfelse>
</cfif>

[Edited on September 15, 2006 at 6:16 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2006 6:15:56 PM

how does ruby on rails stack up against php and cold fusion?

9/15/2006 10:09:44 PM

the same goes for you Stein. You obviously know little about cold fusion.

9/15/2006 11:06:52 PM

That's what I said, dumbass.

9/15/2006 11:53:04 PM

C#!

9/16/2006 3:51:39 AM

web development is like the special olympics

even if your language is better, you're still a web developer

9/17/2006 10:10:54 PM

Quote :

"dead eh? hmm amazing that it's being used by over half of NCSU and 90% of federal agencies in NC use it. APHIS CPHIST CIPM ... should i continue? Please place your foot in your mouth now. "

Yes it's dead. No NEW NCSU apps are being done in CF, and the existing ones are being transitioned to PHP as quickly the the departments can manage it.

As far as federal agencies, that's not exactly a good example of best use technology or implementation.

9/17/2006 10:40:41 PM

actually that's incorrect Noen, BIG TIME incorrect.

The entire CALS department is moving to Cold Fusion (via their director of IT services Alan).

The college of Textiles is moving to Cold Fusion

The college of Veterinary Medicine is moving to Cold Fusion

DARPA is moving to Cold Fusion

well that covers bout half the university.

9/18/2006 7:58:50 AM

Quote :

"well that covers bout half the university."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

9/18/2006 10:33:04 AM

cold fusion syntax looks like ass

9/18/2006 2:05:55 PM

yeah it is totally out of place for a web developer being tag based

there is also the ability to do a more c-based syntax by using the scripting

9/18/2006 2:08:09 PM

i prefer the distinct look between html markup and php code. that way i know when it's just static, and where it's actual code

[Edited on September 18, 2006 at 2:13 PM. Reason : i guess static html code is still actual code, but whatever - cf does look horrendous]

9/18/2006 2:12:28 PM

cals IT is garbage.

you heard it here first

9/18/2006 2:26:51 PM

Quote :

"The entire CALS department is moving to Cold Fusion (via their director of IT services Alan)"

I bet the truth lies somewhere between this and "we are putting all our cold fusion stuff on one server to save money"

if they are actually trying to phase out PHP then someone needs to have a word with this guy
mailto:alan_schueler@ncsu.edu

9/18/2006 6:46:30 PM

Yea, hate to break it to you Raige, but the university is not proliferating Cold Fusion, it's being consolidated and slowly removed.

"

Quote :

"well that covers bout half the university."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"

9/18/2006 7:24:32 PM