Interesting article in the Time magazine. check it out next itme you at your dentist. unfortunately you got to be a subscriber to see the whole article online, but you can see the photo essay. pretty funny stuff.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1533448,00.html

http://www.time.com/time/photoessays/2006/prosperity_preachers/



[Edited on September 16, 2006 at 8:18 PM. Reason : pic]

9/16/2006 8:00:52 PM

Quote :

"check it out next itme you at your dentist."

haha 10/10

9/16/2006 8:11:58 PM

Sounds like BWW.com. An Amway-owned organization that claims to not be Amway. They claim that they're Christian based, but were wholly assholes when I worked with them at the RBC Center. I heard, 'God wants you to be wealthy' during one of their 'church' services.

9/16/2006 8:41:43 PM

Didn't Jesus say something about giving up all of your shit to go out an preach le word of God? Seem like he'd rather have you poor.

9/16/2006 9:40:17 PM

nah they done changed their mind and found a passage in bible that mentions something about weing prosperous. the new thing to do according to these guys is to make millionz and own land. the funniest thing was (i only read half the article, my dentist is quick) is how some of these guys think just becasue thye are true beleivers, they are somehow better then other people and should be paid more fo doing same work.

9/16/2006 9:52:30 PM

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.
Mathew 19:24

9/16/2006 10:01:44 PM

Sike!!!
- Matthew 19:25

[Edited on September 16, 2006 at 10:13 PM. Reason : ]

9/16/2006 10:12:34 PM

if god doesnt exist how did jesus do all that magic shit?

9/16/2006 10:15:56 PM

really it is fascinating.

i remember how ex-soviet upper class all of the sudden turned religious in matter or months. right after they got done robbin the nation.

9/16/2006 10:16:15 PM

Well the interesting preaching going on these days is that if your a good Christian, then you will be blessed with wealth and prosperity, which is a load of horseshit. Basically it says "If you poor in this church, your not a good enough Christian." I think this is horeshit. Some of the most devout Christians were broke as shit, or just lived a normal life. But according to this shit, somebody like Mother Teresa probably wouldn't measure up that well.

9/16/2006 11:00:23 PM

^^^^^ As for that "eye of the needle" quote, it actual can be taken as a reference to a pass in the mountains that is very narrow. Yes it still reads "its hard to be rich and still go to heaven" but it definately doesnt speak to the idea of it being impossible, like the "needle' eye" translation makes it seem.

Just wanted to clarify.

9/16/2006 11:26:51 PM

whats wrong with being rich and being a christian

nothing.

whats wrong with being rich and not being a christian

nothing.

9/17/2006 12:07:14 AM

the best part was the financial returns they were getting. they had some numbers in the article and holy fuck you would be hard pressed to find a more profitable buiness that's legal.

9/17/2006 12:10:57 AM

I'm in a profitable business of ncourse I'm not christian but then it is illegal

9/17/2006 12:13:51 AM

i think im gonna take out a loan and build a church and organize a cult following. the cult is gonna include mandatory monthly monetary donations and rituals involving devirginizing hot female followers. may even throw in some orgies, alcohol and hallucinogenic consumptions during the rituals, and possibly even annual trips to bush gardens.

sign up below.

9/17/2006 12:45:49 AM

cult sounds good.

9/17/2006 12:50:48 AM

FYI- Full issues of time availible online through the NCSU library if you're a student, for those who wanna read it.

9/17/2006 1:00:32 AM

This "Prosperity Theology" crap really pisses me off. Christianity is reminding me more and more of Communism everyday: the principles are fantastic but the people acting them out aren't worth shit. How anyone can read the Bible and think that God is in favor of hording ones wealth is beyond me. Its so funny that while the teachings of Christ were about as socialist as you can get, the Christian social and political engine is uber-fascist.

9/17/2006 1:03:57 AM

^^werd

http://www.lib.ncsu.edu:2193/universe/document?_m=64149a698d6ecdc49529a4c44722b172&_docnum=7&wchp=dGLbVtb-zSkVb&_md5=d51c6555facca040c8ede5f1c9bea752



[Edited on September 17, 2006 at 1:20 AM. Reason : i know, tiniurl. too lazy and drunk right now]

9/17/2006 1:09:13 AM

Quote :

"whats wrong with being rich and being a christian nothing."

Nothing wrong with it at all, if you're okay with ignoring what the fuck Jesus Christ says.

From Luke 18:

Quote :

"18 A certain ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery; You shall not murder; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; Honor your father and mother.’ ” 21 He replied, “I have kept all these since my youth.” 22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “There is still one thing lacking. Sell all that you own and distribute the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.” 23 But when he heard this, he became sad; for he was very rich."

9/17/2006 3:20:59 AM

^you shouldnt co-opt certain passages simply to support your "liberation theory" leanings. its sad that so many socialists use biblical passages to pass off their sick ideology.

Quote :

"The fallacy of that statement seems obvious on the face of it. However, frequently it is necessary to point out where the fallacy begins. Dean’s Liberation Theology begins with the false base premise that a Christian Society is a 'just' society. In fact, Christianity begins with the base premise that evil exists and therefore a just and fair society is impossible. "

[Edited on September 17, 2006 at 8:21 AM. Reason : .]

9/17/2006 8:19:42 AM

evil exists

this world WILL be destroyed and a new heaven and new earth will be made

man cannot worship God and mammon (so if you place more value on your material wealth than God surely it would be better for you to not have any riches)

this thread sucks

9/17/2006 9:53:33 AM

I think that fact that Jesus was poor and stayed poor shows what he thought of wealth.

Being rich has no bearing towards how God views you. He's God.

9/17/2006 10:16:30 AM

Quote :

"As for that "eye of the needle" quote, it actual can be taken as a reference to a pass in the mountains that is very narrow"

haha, NO SHIT REALLY

I THOUGHT IT WAS ACTUALLY AN EYE OF THE NEEDLE



hi, welcome to 3rd grade bible study

9/17/2006 10:39:04 AM

God wants me to be rich.

Because I'm an atheist.


w00t!

9/17/2006 10:39:10 AM

Quote :

"^you shouldnt co-opt certain passages simply to support your "liberation theory" leanings. its sad that so many socialists use biblical passages to pass off their sick ideology."

So Jesus didn't say what I quoted, in extremely plain and clear language? What exactly is it that you believe Jesus meant when he said that?

9/17/2006 10:49:26 AM

"Sounds like BWW.com. An Amway-owned organization that claims to not be Amway. They claim that they're Christian based, but were wholly assholes when I worked with them at the RBC Center."

Britt WorldWide--Amway-affiliated, but not Amway-owned. A guy named Bill Britt owns it. Some people in it are Christians, some aren't. Some people in it are assholes, some aren't.

"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.
-- Matthew 19:24"

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"

Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

-- Matthew 19:25-26

9/17/2006 10:59:18 AM

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are the best christians atheists of all.



HAHHA, i just did some searches. Looks like christians HATE buffet and gates because they fund contraception and planned parenthood.

[Edited on September 17, 2006 at 11:41 AM. Reason : dfsd]

9/17/2006 11:39:11 AM

^^ So at which point did Jesus really mean what he said? You see other peoples' problem with this shit?

9/17/2006 11:40:45 AM

I love how fundies think that the Bible is the absolute, literal word of God.

Until there's a passage that's not conducive to their lifestyle.

Then they're all "OMG IT WAS A METAPHOR FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO WEALTH LOL"

[Edited on September 17, 2006 at 12:26 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2006 12:26:08 PM

I bought a lottery ticket. If god wants me to be rich, here's his chance.

9/17/2006 2:33:37 PM

^^^

Jesus always meant what he said. The quotes make sense in context. To get the context, you read the Bible. ALL of it, not a quote here and there. If you want to read it all, fine. If not, fine.

ChKn, your problems with it are just that...YOUR problems. Believe/don't believe whatever you wish.

9/17/2006 3:20:13 PM

You've told me nothing. How do you interpret those two passages? How are they consistent?

9/17/2006 3:21:43 PM

It's not how I interpret them that matters, it's how YOU interpret them.

9/17/2006 3:23:30 PM

So are you claiming that these two contradictory propositions aren't really contradictory? I'm trying to get a handle on what you think here.

[Edited on September 17, 2006 at 3:25 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2006 3:25:16 PM

"So are you claiming that these two contradictory propositions aren't really contradictory?"

I am claiming nothing. Those are YOUR words, not mine.

"I'm trying to get a handle on what you think here."

Again, what I think is irrelevant. What matters is what YOU think.

9/17/2006 3:29:17 PM

Well obviously I'm not defending any sort of Biblical worldview here. What you're doing is heaping the problems of these passages on me. I already have a conclusion -- that this is industrial-grade bullshit. I want to know YOUR conclusion because I'm interested in the reasoning that you have, not because I'm ready to tear it apart, but because I'm simply curious what you think.

9/17/2006 3:31:01 PM

Quote :

"Osteen's relentlessly upbeat television sermons had helped Adams, 49, get through the hard times, and now Adams was expecting the smiling, Texas-twanged 43-year-old to help boost him back toward success. And Osteen did. Inspired by the preacher's insistence that one of God's top priorities is to shower blessings on Christians in this lifetime--and by the corollary assumption that one of the worst things a person can do is to expect anything less--Adams marched into Gullo Ford in Conroe looking for work. He didn't have entry-level aspirations: "God has showed me that he doesn't want me to be a run-of-the-mill person," he explains. He demanded to know what the dealership's top salesmen made--and got the job. Banishing all doubt--"You can't sell a $40,000-to-$50,000 car with menial thoughts"--Adams took four days to retail his first vehicle, a Ford F-150 Lariat with leather interior. He knew that many fellow salesmen don't notch their first score until their second week. "Right now, I'm above average!" he exclaims. "It's a new day God has given me! I'm on my way to a six-figure income!" The sales commission will help with this month's rent, but Adams hates renting. Once that six-figure income has been rolling in for a while, he will buy his dream house: "Twenty-five acres," he says. "And three bedrooms. We're going to have a schoolhouse (his children are home schooled). We want horses and ponies for the boys, so a horse barn. And a pond. And maybe some cattle." "

this part was hilarious

9/17/2006 3:33:56 PM

"I already have a conclusion -- that this is industrial-grade bullshit."

Then my conclusion doesn't matter, does it? Any argument or reasoning I might present is simply a waste of time for both of us, because you have already decided, based on...I don't know, exactly.

If you are curious as to my reasoning, or uncomfortable as to the "problem of these passages," as you put it, the source is readily available to you.

[Edited on September 17, 2006 at 3:39 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2006 3:37:52 PM

^ What makes you think I won't believe whatever side of the debate gives the most clear, well-reasoned, sound argument? This is what I'm looking for. If a religious conclusion is the most reasonable conclusion to make, then I will make it. Currently it's not the most reasonable conclusion that I have seen -- either because believers cannot make the case, or in your case, WON'T make the case.

[Edited on September 17, 2006 at 3:39 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2006 3:39:20 PM

its not his responsibility to explain the bible to someone who doesnt want to learn about it

9/17/2006 3:42:35 PM

Stop being a fucking dickhead. I've read the Bible. I've read the New Testament specifically multiple times. I want to know what his reasoning is here, because the only conclusion I can make personally is that it draws a multitude of contradictory premises.

9/17/2006 3:44:18 PM

well it sounds like he has another conclusion (as do I) and is content with not explaining it to you (as am I)

9/17/2006 3:48:38 PM

Why enter the discussion if you're not willing to offer anything constructive or explanatory?

I'm sitting here with an obvious problem on my hands about the scripture in question, and you refuse to attempt to answer my confusion about the topic? Seriously -- fuck you.

9/17/2006 3:51:18 PM

You don't have a problem on your hands, you are trolling a thread on religion. You always attack anyone that posts about their christian faith and its retarded and immature. There is nothing that he could say that would change your mind, and even as a christian its not his responsibility to explain his understanding of the bible. All he would accomplish by talking to you would be wasting time.


I mean you do this all the fucking time, no one thinks that you are actually just trying to understand something. If I am wrong and you really want to understand something I will be happy to tell you about some places where you can learn more, but I know I am not wrong.

9/17/2006 3:57:02 PM

"What makes you think I won't believe whatever side of the debate gives the most clear, well-reasoned, sound argument?"

Your previous posts. "I already have a conclusion -- that this is industrial-grade bullshit," for one.

Chkn, I could never convince you. Ever. To even try would be sheer folly. YOU -- just you -- are the one who has to figure it out. I can't help you with that, and neither can anyone else on this board, because you are looking for answers in the wrong place. I sincerely hope that you figure things out.

There is no point in continuing this exchange. Be well.

9/17/2006 3:59:49 PM

Quote :

"You always attack anyone that posts about their christian faith and its retarded and immature."

This simply reveals that you haven't read any of my extensive posts on Christian faith and why I find it to be a bad thing. Being critical of somebody's faith isn't retarded and immature. Claiming that nothing can be gained from an exchange of arguments about faith IS retarded and immature.

Quote :

"There is nothing that he could say that would change your mind, and even as a christian its not his responsibility to explain his understanding of the bible. All he would accomplish by talking to you would be wasting time. I mean you do this all the fucking time, no one thinks that you are actually just trying to understand something. If I am wrong and you really want to understand something I will be happy to tell you about some places where you can learn more, but I know I am not wrong."

Not only are you wrong, you're a grade A prick. I was actually wanting to engage him on his reasoning here, and you assume I'm out to troll him? Go fuck yourself. If you think I wouldn't believe in the best argument then you obviously never have had the attention span to pay attention to one of my threads on religion or philosophy. I change my opinion on things that it makes sense to change it on. Do you honestly think I DON'T want to believe that eternal BLISS awaits me? You're seriously diluded. I'm not here to shit on anybody's parade, I'm here to figure out what's right. Maybe I was engaging him on his belief because I wanted to see if it was a line of reasoning I could swallow. I don't know that though, because instead of an exposition of actual knowledge (which you claim to have) you have fed me a bunch of excuses, and then an accusation that I'm just here to be negative.

Quote :

"Your previous posts. "I already have a conclusion -- that this is industrial-grade bullshit," for one."

I have a conclusion -- it mostly stems from paying attention to the clear language, constructing a premise list, and using some basic logic. If you can show me how I'm wrong I'll abandon my conclusion and accept yours -- assuming it's well-thought out, rational, and correct. The fact that you haven't told me so far doesn't lend you any credibility. I'm not here to "punk" you, I actually wanted to know what you think. However, apparently you're either too good to "waste your time with me", or you just don't know what it is you think about this. I'm going to conclude the latter.

Quote :

"Chkn, I could never convince you. Ever."

Bullshit. A well-reasoned argument that displays the highest degree of warrant becomes my belief. All it takes to convince me is the best argument. If you think you've got it, you should let me know. I think, more than anything, that you're scared to face up to the fact that it's NOT the best argument on the table.

Quote :

"YOU -- just you -- are the one who has to figure it out. I can't help you with that, and neither can anyone else on this board, because you are looking for answers in the wrong place. I sincerely hope that you figure things out."

What does this mean? Why is it members of other religions have no problem explaining what it is they mean? I guaruntee to you that Buddhist koans seem like they make less sense than blatant contradictions in the New Testament, but they actually ARE coherent. How do I know that? Because somebody has fucking explained it to me. I guess you're too good for that.

Quote :

"Be well."

Get bent. If you meant that, you'd actually explain yourself. Your entire post is a sugar-coated "fuck you".

[Edited on September 17, 2006 at 4:13 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2006 4:11:36 PM

And now you are all mad because no one will bite on the meaty hook that is your trolling

9/17/2006 4:19:53 PM

You're a fucking idiot, dude.

IM me if you want to actually discuss this shit. Otherwise, dance for the crowd. The troll here is obvious.

If you think those two statements above aren't a contradiction and don't constitute a severe problem for the teachings of Christ, toss me an IM and let me know -- fr33n0r. Won't post it here, won't attention whore with it. I'm just curious. Just because I take your beliefs and make them look like the half-baked horseshit that they are, don't assume I won't listen to a well-structured theistic argument.

9/17/2006 4:21:43 PM

Didn't intend to post again, but your little temper tantrum was impressive, Chkn, albeit misguided. I had no ill intent toward you, and still don't. I was actually trying to help you. But if hurling multiple insults at me makes you feel better, or somehow convinces you that you have "won" something, then I am happy to have obliged. Call me every filthy name you can think of, if you wish--I can think of at least a dozen you haven't used yet. You may consider me to be an enemy, but I refuse to consider YOU an enemy.

I hope that I am not wasting my breath, but I will say it one more time. You are looking for answers in the wrong place. Your previous post makes that painfully obvious. I can't give them to you, and neither can anyone else on this board. THINK, my friend.

My previous post stands. I sincerely and without malice meant every word of it. Including "be well."

Now, really, I have to go.

9/17/2006 4:34:56 PM