saw something cool on bbc on tv. in fact, it was so cool, that it was chilling.

they showed clear footage from inside a halliburton truck (along with all the cries and radio calls by the driver). it was being filmed by the driver. the truck was part of a convoy of two trucks, and was being escorted by a fully armed humvee ahead of them.

the convoy took a wrong turn because of a mistake in map reading by the humvee guys. the halliburton truck drivers get no maps (or at least these ones didn't). they soon realized their mistake as they were facing a dead-end. they turned around, and soon came under gunfire and a road-side bomb explosion. the driver started screaming that he was being fired at. his truck overturned. the humvee kept going, and didn't stop. the truck driver started shouting hysterically into the radio to the humvee that he was under attack and they would kill him. but no response. so maybe the radio wasn't working? doesn't matter. the humvee was literally 10 meters ahead of the trucks, and the guys inside must have seen that the trucks have stopped, and that one of them has overturned.

anyway, the other truck had stopped some 20 meters ahead of him. the two drivers inside were murdered. the guy filming saw everything. he radioed some central station and was hysterical. he said he would be killed too, and that the others in the other truck had been killed, and that he had no weapons. he kept on filming, and luckily survived. help came to him after 40 minutes.

the whole episode was filmed by an unmanned drone as well. they showed that footage too. one of the dead drivers from the second truck was pulled outside by a group of about 10 fighters. they stripped him, and then threw rocks at him. while this was happening, the driver of the first truck was alive and filming. i can't imagine what he must have been going through.

and the icing on the cake: the filming dude was fired by halliburton for a "company injury". as for the army, no comment from them, and they are "investigating". (yeah, sure they are )

i think this is the only way that americans will pull out of iraq: that is, when infighting and disagreement reaches such a level, that people will stand up and demand that their country pulls out.

btw, if you are getting paid $100,000 per year just to be an ignorant and illiterate [yes, i am generalizing] truckdriver, then the risks involved are proportional, i guess. but, the humvee leaving the trucks, that's treason.

p.s. those of you who get bbc news, it will be showed in their hourly bulletin for at least the next couple of hours.

[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 1:50 PM. Reason : ]

9/28/2006 1:49:53 PM

when did you start caring about us citizens working for a corporation?

9/28/2006 1:51:32 PM

Quote :

"the truck was part of a convoy of two trucks"

The convey was actually 5 vehicles.

And I agree its very fucked up. It was all over the ABC news this morning on TV. I'm pretty curious what happened and am sure that it will be investigated since its getting the media spotlight

9/28/2006 1:52:33 PM

fucked up, yes.

but treason?!

9/28/2006 1:53:57 PM

That's pretty sick shit. Don't care who you are.

9/28/2006 1:54:32 PM

^^ treason has a few meanings. you choose:

1. the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2. a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.
3. the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.

9/28/2006 1:56:28 PM

Spoken like somebody's who's actually had to study the language. That's what I like about French more than anything else. It really taught me more about how to study English.

9/28/2006 2:01:46 PM

Quote :

"i think this is the only way that americans will pull out of iraq: that is, when infighting and disagreement reaches such a level, that people will stand up and demand that their country pulls out."

how is pulling out going to get rid of the HORRIBLE people who committed these bombings and stonings in this particular instance?

9/28/2006 2:26:49 PM

So like, there isn't a link to the video here?

Damn, you should preface that with "I saw" in the post topic, lol

Anyway, it does sound pretty fucked up, but I'd like to know the rules about this sort of thing. I mean, we have rules of engagement to follow and it sounds like they were broken. The soldier's should have stopped and attacked.

Also, you don't know what kind of deals the military is striking with rebels in certain parts of the cities. It could have been an agreement that US soldiers would not enter those streets. Still, they should have, but I think we have to hear both sides of the story and what the protocol should have been in this situation before we condemn them.

9/28/2006 2:32:09 PM

Quote :

"how is pulling out going to get rid of the HORRIBLE people who committed these bombings and stonings in this particular instance?"

It won't, but for 100% of the American population living in the United States, this is a non issue.

9/28/2006 2:36:51 PM

100% huh?

9/28/2006 2:37:46 PM

^^^ Yeah sorry, I saw it on the TV. Maybe there is a video (I am sure there is) of this on the internet. I am on dialup, so feel free to search.

Quote :

"how is pulling out going to get rid of the HORRIBLE people who committed these bombings and stonings in this particular instance?"

Maybe they will stop their killings [of fellow Iraqis] when the Americans pull out, maybe they won't (more likely).

But, the fact of the matter is, at least then, Muslims and Arabs will be forced to look at their own naked barbarity without having the US to blame for every single thing that goes bad. At least then, they might start condemning vigorously the monsters who kill ordinary Iraqis everyday by the dozens in markets and queues of job-seekers.

[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 2:39 PM. Reason : ]

9/28/2006 2:39:16 PM

Quote :

"at least then, Muslims and Arabs will be forced to look at their own naked barbarity without having the US to blame for every single thing that goes bad. At least then, they might start condemning vigorously the monsters who kill ordinary Iraqis everyday by the dozens in markets and queues of job-seekers."

so you're pretty much saying its not the US's fault that they are murdering each other?

9/28/2006 2:42:43 PM

^ no one said it was the US's fault they suck to begin with.

9/28/2006 2:45:07 PM

actually lots of people are saying the US occupation of Iraq is whats responsible for all these attacks

9/28/2006 2:46:02 PM

Quote :

"It won't, but for 100% of the American population living in the United States, this is a non issue. 9/28/2006 2:36:51 PM TreeTwista10 ^I'm With Faggot 38640 Posts user info edit post 100% huh? "

Yes, would you like to dispute this. Would you like to tell me how pulling out from a place where the people have already said the violence will go down if we do is going to affect me negatively?

9/28/2006 2:50:04 PM

Quote :

"so you're pretty much saying its not the US's fault that they are murdering each other?"

It is not as cut and dry as that.

Sure, it is their OWN fault they are killing their own brethren because they belong to a different sect, or because they dare to seek a job in the new Iraqi police/army.

They will surely burn in hell eternally for that. Every Muslim scholar will tell you that.

But, how did this killing start? Why weren't ordinary Iraqis killing each other when Saddam was in power? Because, Saddam [or anybody strict like him] was needed to control the masses from killing each other. See, radical Sunnis and Shiites hate each other more than they hate the US. I would love to type more, but you can see the following post of mine in the lounge:

http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=423110&page=2#9088592

The relevant part is quoted:

Quote :

"Saddam was evil but he was needed, at least for the near-future, until those people can stop hating each other. I have talked to several Iraqis, and though they all hate Saddam, they say he was a necessary evil, because he prevented the Shiites and Sunnis from decimating each other. I think the vast majority of the world's population would pick the Saddam option rather than the civil war right now, if living in Iraq. At least under Saddam, your life and limb were secure, unless you spoke up against him. But now, women and children are being massacred while buying vegetables EVERY FUCKING SINGLE DAY. Saddam was evil but he was needed, at least for the near-future, until those people can stop hating each other. That's THE FUCKING CONCEPT some Americans can't fathom even in the slightest. These cheery nubile idiots think democracy is the way to go in every country. BUT IT IS NOT, not at this instant. In some countries (READ: Arab countries), you NEED the King/Sultan/Military ruler to keep people from killing each other, until people themselves warm to the idea of democracy and in the next 50-100 years, THEMSELVES stand up and bring democracy. Until then, Saddam et al are necessary evils."

9/28/2006 2:54:22 PM

so what you're saying is that they can't get out of the stone age and live in peace?


the sooner we can cut every tie we have to the region the sooner we can go back to not caring (see: africa) and let everyone of those idiots stone and shoot themselves to death


but i guess the next excuse for idiot terrorists will be that "THE US LEFT THE REGION AND QUIT GIVING US OIL MONEY AND NOW WE ARE SUFFERING SO THEY MUST DIE"

and then this same stupid bullshit cycle will continue

[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 3:05 PM. Reason : .]

9/28/2006 3:03:58 PM

Holy shit. So the idiot humvee guys fucked up and took them through some nasty areas, and then left the truck drivers?

Well, damn, sounds like some soldiers don't have much respect hor Halliburton contractors. The contractors make twice what the soldier makes...I think that would piss me off too.

9/28/2006 3:05:08 PM

yep, I agree... our soldiers and marines should be paid more

9/28/2006 3:06:18 PM

Quote :

"the sooner we can cut every tie we have to the region the sooner we can go back to not caring (see: africa) and let everyone of those idiots stone and shoot themselves to death"

Yup, but why do you think the US "cares" to begin with? (about that region)

Two words come to my mind.

[Hint: one is a name of a country, and the other, a natural substance used as a fuel]

9/28/2006 3:11:33 PM

Since I'm too lazy to Google this and I see no link...

a. Were those actual USGIs escorting the convoy?
b. If not, what contractor (aka mercenaries) was?

And yeah, the idea of having armed escort is to have armed escort. Having said armed escort leave you in the dust is BS.

9/28/2006 3:13:39 PM

^^ oh I know the reason we care is because of oil


and I'll be glad when we cut ourselves off from ME oil


and then we can completely pull out of the region and let them act a fool all they want and when israel gets tired of the bullshit they bring all of it to a halt

then we can hear everyone bitch about how the US is bad and bred future terrorism by leaving the region and causing it to fall into shambles instead of people just admitting that there are idiots over there that just can't act right and try to reign these fools in

but whatever... keep blowing shit up and watch what happens to the whole region and the whole civilization

9/28/2006 3:17:55 PM

i've said time and time again that all the shit could end tomorrow, with the palestinians getting their way and the ME in general getting it's way with passive resistance like the indians did to get rid of the british

all the palestinians have to do is form peaceful protests and sit-ins and they'd have a state in a month

you think the israelis could act the way they do if it weren't tit-for-tat?

all the good people of iraq have to do is the same thing and we'd be gone and anybody blowing shit up would just be the shithead...

9/28/2006 3:37:47 PM

this thread title is pretty fucked up.

9/28/2006 4:14:28 PM

Quote :

"Would you like to tell me how pulling out from a place where the people have already said the violence will go down if we do is going to affect me negatively?"

so you trust the word of "the people"? the people who heartlessly murder every day...you trust that the violence will "go down" if we leave?

9/28/2006 4:34:01 PM

what should really bother people is our increasing reliance on private contractors for military action

9/28/2006 5:38:29 PM

Quote :

"the humvee kept going, and didn't stop"

The special said that there was already a military investigation underway.

9/28/2006 7:16:35 PM

Damn...

That really really sucks.

The guys who left him to die deserve some serious punishment. I guarantee they were defying orders by leaving those guys to die (and it's probably why it took so long for help to arrive. They probably wouldn't turn back even with twenty minutes of conversation over the radio with their higher up, so they sent out a cleanup team (only to their surprise the guy wasn't dead yet)).

This also makes me wonder if we'd be better off patrolling the countryside and letting the Iraqi police/military patrol the cities, leaving spare US forces to be called in for assistance in force (air units or armored units that could be directed in from just outside the most heavily populated areas) or for assistance in raids.

And another idea... Bullet proof windows and kevlar or ceramic door armor for convoy trucks and steel locking bars for the doors (so they cannot be opened without cutting the door off with a blowtorch). This is bound to add 20-50% to the cost of an army truck though, so they won't do it until the conflict is over (and they can spend their money on things besides the absolute necessities).

9/28/2006 7:35:19 PM

Quote :

"saw something cool on bbc on tv. in fact, it was so cool, that it was chilling."

please explain

9/28/2006 7:39:25 PM

Hey, CNN just aired a special about this on Anderson Cooper.
It turns out that the humvee's actually DID follow protocol. They left the kill zone (point of attack) and attempted to set up attack positions. They were unable to set up such a position.

I know it is fucked up that it looks like they just abandoned these people, but in the opinion of the military it would have been suicide for soldiers to turn around and charge back into it.

The ugly face of urban warfare, shown on camera won't make anyone happy, but its the way that urban warfare is fought.

This is one reason I don't think people should be watching videos of most miltary operations. A video doesn't truly capture the atmosphere. It simply looks like the soldiers abandoned this guy, when they did try to follow the procedures designed for this kind of attack.

9/28/2006 10:08:52 PM

^^ you can derive the meaning you wish.

I watched it again.

The convoy had 12 trucks, and 5 armed escort vehicles. They all left. Also, Halliburton DOES NOT provide maps to their drivers.

The most chilling thing was seeing and hearing a bullet strike the windshield of the truck whose driver was filming. This bullet mark/hole [not clear if the windshield is bullet-proof or not] just appears there with a great quickness and a violent sound, and the driver screams a blood-curdling "God damn". it was especially chilling because all you see in the footage is the windshield from inside the truck without the A-pillars, so [for me as a viewer] it felt as if I was wearing goggles and someone shot them. He also got two bullets in his arm just moments later.

[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 10:10 PM. Reason : ]

9/28/2006 10:09:49 PM

i would bet SOP was to push through the ambush.

convoys dont have the ground assets to have guys get out and assault a well fortified position of ambushers with RPGs with out risking the entire convoy.

also i know it is SOP for many units to push through an ambush kill zone with IEDs to avoid chained and secondary IED explosions, you -will- get fucked up

[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 10:27 PM. Reason : x]

9/28/2006 10:25:37 PM

Too bad we can't ambush some hajis over here. I know one who is up to no good.

[Edited on September 29, 2006 at 1:51 AM. Reason : .]

9/29/2006 1:26:27 AM

Quote :

"BridgetSPK: Holy shit. So the idiot humvee guys fucked up and took them through some nasty areas, and then left the truck drivers? Well, damn, sounds like some soldiers don't have much respect hor Halliburton contractors. The contractors make twice four times what the soldiers make...I think that would piss me off too."

My bad.

9/29/2006 4:06:26 AM

"Your bad" wasn't only the mistake in pay. The whole thing is wrong.

Those soldiers followed the procedures in place for that kind of attack. If you want to take issue with the procedures, fine (although I wouldn't question it, because they do it to save lives), but don't blame the soldiers or insult them.

9/29/2006 7:11:48 AM

i'm pretty sure these guys know the risks of going over to Iraq for high paying work

I work for a contractor...am I upset that we don't get a chance to even bid on some of those projects? Fuck no...we're good building things here in the Carolinas, thank you very much

9/29/2006 10:31:42 AM

but iraq is safer now

[Edited on September 29, 2006 at 10:42 AM. Reason : n]

9/29/2006 10:40:48 AM

"It's gonna get worse before it gets better"

9/29/2006 10:50:47 AM

Yea, but you said in a thread last week that Iraq is safer? Are you flip flopping harder than John Kerry now?

9/29/2006 11:20:56 AM

i said the WORLD is safer you non-reading dumbass

9/29/2006 11:22:21 AM

http://tinyurl.com/ly4to

The Virginia National Guard's commander yesterday criticized as incomplete and misleading a television report alleging Virginia National Guard soldiers abandoned a civilian convoy under attack in Iraq.

"They owe the Virginia Army National Guard an apology," Maj. Gen. Robert B. Newman Jr. said of the ABC story Wednesday that included a video made by one of the civilian truck drivers.

A monthlong Army investigation of the attack, during which three civilians died, showed the Virginia soldiers reacted properly, the Army said.

"At no time did any individuals abandon the convoy," Lt. Col. Michelle Martin-Hing, an Army spokeswoman in Iraq, said in a statement.

"They fought back bravely while waiting for reinforcements and attending to the casualties," Martin-Hing said.

The Army awarded 16 military decorations to the Virginia soldiers for their response to the attack more than a year ago near Balad, Iraq, Newman said.

Those decorations included 10 for valor under fire and one Purple Heart for wounds received in combat, the state's adjutant general said.

The Virginia soldiers were from the state Guard's 1173rd Transportation Company.

"My soldiers performed bravely and with valor. The reporting provided by ABC is far from the mark," Newman said. "My guys did it right," he added. "Man, I'm proud of these guys."

ABC posted the Army's statement about the attack on its Web site yesterday, but it did not comment. A network spokesperson could not immediately be reached last night.

About 165 soldiers of the 1173rd went on federal active duty Oct. 23, 2004. They served at Logistics Support Area Anaconda in Iraq and were released from active duty in December 2005.

The unit was based in Martinsville and Rocky Mount.

A video obtained by ABC News showed a military personnel carrier racing away after insurgents opened fire and disabled four Halliburton trucks last September.

"I do not know who the driver was of that Humvee, but he abandoned us," civilian driver Preston Wheeler of Mena, Ark., who taped the footage, told ABC News.

Martin-Hing defended the Virginia Guard soldiers, saying, "The individuals at the front of the convoy reacted as they were taught by pushing forward and getting out of the kill zone of the ambush."

"What is not visible in the video being shown is that they collected the casualties they could reach and laid down suppressive fire with their weapons to help get those vehicles that could move from the front of the convoy out of the kill zone," the Army spokeswoman said.

The Virginians got the wounded civilians from their vehicles while under heavy enemy fire, from rocket-propelled grenades, small arms and hand grenades, Martin-Hing said.

Once the Virginia soldiers were out of the kill zone, she said, they set up security and called for a backup unit, air support and medevac for the wounded. They also directed the movements of other gun trucks farther back in the convoy.

The Army's convoy-leader training handbook says that in an ambush, "If possible, vehicles will proceed through contact zone, increasing speed and interval and taking caution not to bunch up."

According to an Army presentation on convoy security at the Anaconda logistics base, the bottom line for convoys is to keep moving.

KBR, Halliburton's engineering and construction subsidiary, did not provide details of the incident in a news release but said the military has control over its convoys and is required to provide security.

9/29/2006 11:44:12 AM

Quote :

"i said the WORLD is safer you non-reading dumbass"

You also said the Iraqi people are safer.

9/29/2006 11:46:39 AM

so, video footage of people being murdered is cool?

i really don't get the coolness of it.

9/29/2006 12:43:12 PM

it's not only standard procedure, it's common sense that in the middle of an ambush you don't just stop. you get the hell out of there and then regroup.

9/29/2006 10:00:18 PM

Yes, but we're all such damn good armchair quarterbacks that we can judge what the proper response should have been based on one person's view of the entire situation.

9/29/2006 10:28:07 PM

i wish there was new AMERICAN civil war footage released

that might explain more to me

more than

tv more tv more tv more tv more tv more tv more tv more tv more tv more tv



maybe one day i'll buy a cell phone

[Edited on September 30, 2006 at 3:40 AM. Reason : kill us all ]

9/30/2006 3:40:06 AM

You guys are right about of the SOP in that video. A year ago, I was in Iraq as a Field Military Policemen as a scout machine gunner on an M114 HMMWV (US Marines). If we were to get ambushed, the whole covoy will keep moving and return massive loads of heavy machine gun suppressive fire. If your vehicle gets diabled, the security MPs will know because there are at least another two escort HMMWVs behind the convoy, or if they have a radio, they could have radioed the any of the MP HMMWVs for help. Depending on SOPs (I can't tell you exactly what we do), convoys have to get out of the "Kill Zone." And they will stop as soon as they are out of that zone and provide their own security. A few or sometimes all of the MPs WILL come back to assist the disabled vehicle. Every MP HMMWW has a VHF radio to call in for air support and medivacs for back up.

No convoy comes outside of the base without a minimum of 5 vehicles. On really long range convoys, there will be a an AH-1W and a UH-1 Huey gunship providing escort. I'm sure what you saw on that video looks like the military abandoned these contractors, but they were following their unit standard operating procedures.

10/5/2006 2:29:37 PM