Quote :

"This country is in a moral freefall. For over two generations, the public school system has taught in a moral vacuum, expelling God from the school and from the government, replacing him with evolution, where the strong kill the weak without moral consequences. And life has no inherent value. We teach there are no absolutes, no right or wrong, and I assure you the murder of innocent children is always wrong, including by abortion. Abortion has diminished the value of children. Suicide has become an acceptable action and has further emboldened these criminals. We're seeing an epidemic increase in murder/suicide attacks on our children."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200610030004

10/3/2006 5:17:09 PM

I wouldn't agree with that statement, but there is a lack of morals in children, young people, and adults

which probably does have something to do with the issue

10/3/2006 5:56:32 PM

you know, if you read any literature from centuries past, youll find that people were never very moral

10/3/2006 5:57:29 PM

all well and good

there are always bad people and always will be


but whats wrong with wanting bad people to not be such shitheads?

10/3/2006 5:59:29 PM

yea the intention is fine till it causes harm. and the anti-science BS can cause harm.

10/3/2006 6:01:27 PM

well science is real as far as I'm concerned


but I have no problem with people that use it to create a line of right/wrong

because the basic shit is still shit most people should abide by in general

you know stuff like, don't fuck your neighbors wife, don't kill people, don't rape people etc etc

[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 6:04 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2006 6:03:49 PM

Chalking these kinds of events up to immorality is a disingenuous oversimplification that doesn't help anyone. The dehumanization, psychosis, and tribalism that give rise to situations like this are more cancerous than "immorality." Even grouping the forces that give rise to columbine-type events into categories like that is insufficient. That being said, you can impose whatever morality you want and still have a high school with near-tribal cliques, psychopaths, and an overall atmosphere of dehumanization.

[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 6:07 PM. Reason : ]

10/3/2006 6:05:22 PM

so whose fault is it?

is it just parents in general?

kids having a shitty day/week/month/year wanting to make a grand finale?

what causes this and feeds it?

I do honestly think it is partially due to lack of right/wrong, but those people know it's wrong to kill people, but what makes it a logical option for these people?

and I do blame parents also

[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 6:08 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2006 6:08:32 PM

10/3/2006 6:11:22 PM

Wasn't this about the shooting PA involving the mennonites? If so, then I can assure you a lack of morals has nothing to do with it.

10/3/2006 6:21:11 PM

^^^I think the only people you can safely blame are the kids themselves. That's the only place we have a clear causal relationship between action and result.

Everything else is tertiary at best.

As for morality? You can explain to someone how wrong something is all you want and it doesn't solve any of the problems that make someone want to do something specifically because it's wrong.

[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 6:24 PM. Reason : ]

10/3/2006 6:22:10 PM

id say the ease of getting to deadly firearms is about 30% at blame.

10/3/2006 6:26:03 PM

-Yeah, it's a moral freefall. Let's go back to oppressing women and blacks.

-Too bad the killers weren't more religious. Then they could've flown a plane into the school and go straight to Heaven.

-Last two generations are morally bad? The one before that must've been pretty shitty parents.

-Maybe these shooters are so angry and depressed because religious assholes tell them about absolute moral values that aren't really that valuable.

(Choose one)

10/3/2006 6:26:59 PM

I wouldn't say having morals is the same as being religious


I don't kill people, rape people or anything like that and I avoid church like the plague


and guns are not why it happened troll

10/3/2006 6:31:12 PM

yea i didnt say that. if they couldnt get ahold guns, they wouldnt have been able to do it.

10/3/2006 6:34:02 PM

once again


guns don't cause the violence, the idiot that wants to kill people does

10/3/2006 6:39:54 PM

Trying to argue that the availibility of guns is not partially to blame doesn't really work. Do you really think someone going ape-shit with a baseball bat is going to cause the kind of carnage they could with a gun?

Is it "guns' fault?" No. Guns didn't make these kids kill anyone obviously. Was the fact that these kids were able to obtain a large ammount of guns (and easily) a pre-requisite to this kind of event? No shit. If the kids didn't have guns, they could not have done what they did.

10/3/2006 6:40:28 PM

well then, who allowed them (broke the law) to get the guns?


why didn't the "terrorist" at UNC go get a gun if it was so easy, it would have worked better than his car

but people that do bad shit are gonna do bad shit, with whatever is available to them

10/3/2006 6:42:41 PM

Availibility of guns /= legality of getting the guns.

Yeah you can kill people with other things besides guns, but guns are one of the most efficient. Just because there's other ways to kill people, doesn't mean the availibility of guns (legal and illegal) isn't a problem...

10/3/2006 6:45:45 PM

so let me guess, banning guns would have prevented this right?

10/3/2006 6:48:54 PM

Quote :

"Availibility of guns /= legality of getting the guns."

10/3/2006 6:49:39 PM

thats fine

but there are factors besides guns that cause people to do shit like this

I guess it's easy to blame guns, because well, they are inanimate objects

the million dollar question is what causes it


not "omg lets have another gun debate"

10/3/2006 6:52:05 PM

Well that's an awful million dollar question because there's dozens of answers that are equally correct and equally insufficient. The real question is more "What causes are within our ability to control, how right are we to control them, and how do you go about doing it without causing more damage than there ever was to fix?"

Availibility of firearms is one of those causes/contributing factors in events like this. No, it's not the biggest one. It's defiantely not the easiest one to mitigate. That doesn't mean we shouldn't aknowledge that the ease these highschoolers had obtaining guns was a bad thing.

[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 6:59 PM. Reason : ]

10/3/2006 6:57:47 PM

i already posted the video that explains it all

STOP LOOKING FOR OTHER ANSWERS

10/3/2006 6:58:43 PM

Quote :

"well then, who allowed them (broke the law) to get the guns?"

the people that allow guns to be accessable by just about anyone. the guns arent to BLAME. but if they were harder to get, this crime MAY not have happened.

10/3/2006 7:04:06 PM

Quote :

"the public school system has taught in a moral vacuum, expelling God from the school and from the government, replacing him with evolution, where the strong kill the weak without moral consequences. And life has no inherent value."

That statement is crazy on so many levels.

1. The idea of god does not give life "inherent value." It's asinine to think that people who don't necessarily believe in a god feel that life is worthless.

2. Nobody "replaced" god with anything.

3. The strong do kill the weak in nature, and it has nothing to do with us teaching evolution. (Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on).

4. How have they discovered the sex of an apparently non-reproducing supernatural being?

[Edited on October 4, 2006 at 3:00 PM. Reason : ]

10/4/2006 2:59:48 PM

Quote :

"Suicide has become an acceptable action"

since when?

10/4/2006 3:00:33 PM

Quote :

"-Yeah, it's a moral freefall. Let's go back to oppressing women and blacks. -Too bad the killers weren't more religious. Then they could've flown a plane into the school and go straight to Heaven."

I think these two win.

It is of course absolutely stupid to claim we're less moral than we were before. I don't know where people get that from.

10/5/2006 8:15:12 AM

Less moral according to what standard? I'd say the values of the Greeks were a lot different than the values of a Judeo-Christian society.

10/5/2006 8:25:18 AM

let's stick with our country, since that's what the guy is talking aobut

10/5/2006 8:40:51 AM

yall don't think kids are the least bit more fucked up now than tey used to be?

I'm not saying society as a whole... but I think the bad ones... are really damn bad now

10/5/2006 8:41:59 AM

it's got something to do with the current state of the public school system.

it needs an overhaul/to be eliminated.

10/5/2006 8:42:59 AM

DEVILUTION!

10/5/2006 8:44:56 AM

when i have a kid I'm sending he/she to privtate school, thats no guarantee against stuff like this... but school is not for a political indoctrination, it's for learning so you can grow up to be a respectable human being

10/5/2006 8:45:19 AM

Quote :

"let's stick with our country, since that's what the guy is talking aobut"

Because there's been absolutely no moral drift in this country! We've always had exactly the same standard of morality. Always.

Try to read and think critically.

10/5/2006 8:45:22 AM

^^wait...are you trying to say public schools are indoctrinating students in certain political views?

the only schools i see doing that are...private religious schools i suppose, but that's why they exist, so parents can choose to have their kid brought up in such a way.

10/5/2006 8:48:23 AM

You have to understand that some people perceive the lack of THEIR indoctrination as the presence of some other inappropriate form.

[Edited on October 5, 2006 at 8:49 AM. Reason : .]

10/5/2006 8:49:24 AM

I think so.. but thats my .02

I've seen the teachers guide to the "bill of rights" and all that ( I think it was the harcourt brace jonavich version) and under 2nd amendment all it said was "the right to start a militia".. it basically just blew off the 2nd amendment

I'm not big on religious schools either, religion isn't my cup of tea

10/5/2006 8:53:51 AM

so is there any other reason you think the schools are politically indoctrinating students aside from that?

do you think these private schools you want to send your child to will emphasize that?

isnt that just something you can teach your kid at home? its not like they said "the 2nd amendment is wrong and dont you forget it, no matter what anyone tells you".



[Edited on October 5, 2006 at 8:57 AM. Reason : .]

10/5/2006 8:55:15 AM

some schools sure
some teachers sure

as a whole, probably not

I think the thing that scares me most is knowing some of the teachers that have been hired for public schools

I really wouldn't want my kid being taught anything by them

10/5/2006 8:57:55 AM