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theDuke866
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You really think? The brakes look kinda small to me.

Now, the Brembo units from the TRD package on the later cars...that's definitely a lot of brake for the car.

3/2/2020 8:08:23 PM

TKE-Teg
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Vented rotors front and rear, 11.6 and 11.4 inch diameter. For comparison an S2000 has 11.8 inch front ventilated rotors and solid 11.1 inch rear rotors. A faster car with smaller brakes.

I never had a problem overheating the braking system in that car and it's faster than an FRS. My supercharged BRZ was fine with just Carbotech track pads, though I'll admit that was on stock rubber.

I have no experience with the pads you're using, however.

3/3/2020 8:38:50 AM

utowncha
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moisture in the system?

3/3/2020 3:18:47 PM

Hiro
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^^ More than just Diameter, thicknesses plays a role too. Rotors are heat sinks and thickness is just as important as OD and swept area...

Brembo Front: 326mm x 30mm Ventilated
Standard Front: 294mm x 24mm Ventilated

Brembo Rear: 316 x 20mm Ventilated
Standard Rear: 290mm by 18mm Ventilated.

Yeah. The Factory Brembos on my wife's car is nuts and they feel phenomenal. They are so big for the car. That said, I find it troubling that the brakes suffered that bad on you Duke. Maybe you were just giving the car more hell than it was prepared to handle that weekend? Motul RBF 600 is good fluid. I've never had issues with that. I have had issues in my EG hatch with Hawk Blues. I ran Carbotechs on my Vette and I run Carbotechs now in my Civic Hatch. Carbotechs are pricey, but they've satisfied my high expectations of them.

For brake ducting, I made my own using sceet aeroduct from Aircraft Supply (aircraftsupply.com/). You can also use scat, as most people do. I threw extra money at the lined ducting because I could. I made my own brackets out of exhaust tubing and some generic/universal duct/funnel. When the temp is 50-60*, I have to keep the ducts taped off, but in the heat (90*), my brakes are at a nice 400* temp range...



[Edited on March 3, 2020 at 11:23 PM. Reason : .]

3/3/2020 11:08:16 PM

Hiro
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Here are some pictures of the work I've done regarding brake ducts. Maybe it'll inspire you, if you're into this kind of "at home fab" stuff. I'm fully aware that these may not even be needed for my car; I've talked to a few NASA Honda Series drivers and quite a few run races without any brake ducts and have no issues with overheating hubs/rotors/brakes on track. I just felt like doing this because I like building/designing stuff and #trackcar.

I've thought about making a lip to the end of the brake duct by the rotor to encourage the air to flow into the hub. I know that as the wheels are turning, the hub is pulling a vacuum on the air coming from the brake ducts. Currently, I haven't had any issues with needing more cooling, so I use that as my justification for not adding a final angle to the ends of those ducts (Picture 9). Duck Tape helps keep the abrasion on select areas of the ducting to a minimum. I've take the ducts off from the reducers to the rotors when the car is not being tracked. I've got 10 days of track time on these ducts an there's no noticeable wear on them. The SCEET/SCAT is good quality stuff.

Good video showing how ventilated rotors pull vacuum at the hub and vent through the vanes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWSbt-KjtqE

Pic 1 - Generic Ducts Inlet (3" collector)


Pic 2 - I'm greedy with my 3" collector/intake and had to neck down to 2.5" so tubing wouldn't rub at full lock.


Pic 3


Pic 4 - Mounted each 3"->2.5" reducer to hardpoints on the motor/trans.


Pic 5 - Used caliper mounting bolt location to attach the brake ducting assembly


Pic 6


Pic 7


Pic 8 - Everything Installed


Pic 9 - Concept idea of getting more air funneled to the hubs.




[Edited on March 3, 2020 at 11:54 PM. Reason : .]

3/3/2020 11:37:26 PM

theDuke866
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shouldn't be any moisture in the system. fluid was only maybe 6 weeks old.

i think ducts are the thing to try next. there are a few ready-made kits for a few hundred bucks. if it was a total track-rat, I'd prob do DIY, but I want it to look nice without having to spend eleventy thousand hours on it.

the brembos are readily available used, but jesus, they're $2000 used.

3/5/2020 12:02:54 AM

TKE-Teg
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That's almost hilarious, given that the Performance Package kit (which those brakes are part of) was a $1700 factory option.

3/5/2020 8:18:43 AM

smoothcrim
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you can get a massive brembo setup from a jeep or old porsche pretty cheap if you can machine your own mounting brackets

3/5/2020 12:07:10 PM

TKE-Teg
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Also apparently Cadillac Brembo calipers are insanely cheap used. Not sure why lol.

3/5/2020 1:40:20 PM

theDuke866
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Fresh Motul 660 in the brake system...and new slotted rotors and Carbotech XP12 and XP10 pads to swap in once I finish off the current brakes.

Pretty sure I'm doing NOLA on Friday 24 July. Sounds like they're having trouble getting enough participants...it's supposed to be 5x twenty-minute sessions, but previous experience with their open track days is that if it's a small crowd, you can just run all you want. My buddy and I were the only 2 left by the end of the day, and even then we went home before they closed down. He had no more brakes, and I was just worn out. I bet I did 3.5 hours on the track that day.

7/16/2020 2:21:01 AM

theDuke866
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What dedicated track day toy would you guys buy for, say, $20k or less? I could spend more for something that REALLY wowed me, but really don't want to--I'd really rather undercut that figure.

It need not be street legal, although it may be.

Needs to be either meaningfully faster or meaningfully cheaper than my FR-S, which I'd say is more than an equal to a stock S2000, and worth mid-teens or so.

[Edited on December 28, 2020 at 12:43 AM. Reason : DSR? lower-end Radical? Thunder Roadster? Gen 2 SRF? another C5 Z06?]

[Edited on December 28, 2020 at 12:58 AM. Reason : ]

12/28/2020 12:40:11 AM

smoothcrim
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how close to stock do you want? I'd probably be after an elise, but a c5 with lots of cooling mods would work too with way more parts availability

12/28/2020 3:38:33 PM

theDuke866
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Doesn’t need to be close to stock. A gutted C5Z would be great. I wouldn’t buy one and buy it, though...I let someone else take that value hit, then buy their track car.

Elise would be too much money. I could buy a nice Radical for that price and absolutely kick the Elise’s balls in, with even better tactile fun factor and even higher cool factor.

12/28/2020 8:18:42 PM

smoothcrim
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I haven't seen a LHD radical under 30k ever. My hangup with a radical and doing track days vs races is the vast differences in levels of ability, even inside a single run group. Someone running out of talent in something like a gt-r or some other big heavy car could pretty easily fuck you up permanently. Private track events with very few people, time trials, or class racing, I'd absolutely go that route though.

another car with an amazing chassis is the rx8. you can get them for under 5k in good shape and when the engine eventually goes, you can just buy another.

[Edited on December 30, 2020 at 10:55 AM. Reason : .]

12/30/2020 10:54:27 AM

theDuke866
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There are older Radicals around 20k or even down in the teens.

I doubt you’d find a 2-seat, LHD SR3 for under 30.

12/30/2020 9:58:55 PM

theDuke866
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here's a LHD SR3 for $25k. The car is in Toronto; I'm not sure if that price is Canada-bucks or USD. If it's USD, that's not only sub-30k, but sub-20k! Fully rebuilt from the frame up, with a spare motor and spare nose.
https://radicalsportscarregistry.com/acadp_listings/2002-radical-sr3/


I'm also intrigued by the new Rush SR-1 coming out. $29k brand new. Apparently right there with Radical, performance-wise (prob SR1, or maybe between SR-1 and SR-3 Radicals?) https://rushautoworks.com/car_post/rush-sr-1/

[Edited on January 2, 2021 at 1:13 AM. Reason : ]

1/2/2021 1:09:57 AM

smoothcrim
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^that radical was posted TWO YEARS ago. I kinda doubt it's still there or still in good running shape.

that rush on the other hand... I would love to spec race one of those. I bet I could even tow it with my wagon

1/5/2021 10:49:00 AM

TKE-Teg
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Hahaha, that would be an awesome site to see.


Back to thread topic, I just registered for a Lemons race down at Barber, first weekend of February.

1/5/2021 11:46:18 AM

smoothcrim
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what are you driving? I might come check that out

1/5/2021 4:36:32 PM

TKE-Teg
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2003 Ford Thunderbird

1/6/2021 8:12:24 AM

Air
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I just did barber in December for the first time. That place is fantastic!

1/9/2021 6:02:18 PM

TKE-Teg
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Event was canceled/postponed because of COVID.

Sigh...

1/11/2021 5:31:51 PM

smoothcrim
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just signed up for VIR memorial day weekend. who else is in?

4/2/2021 1:52:15 PM

TKE-Teg
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I'm taking the summer off - getting a puppy the week after doing a Lemons race in Sebring May 7-8th.

puppy life returning

4/5/2021 4:26:56 PM

synapse
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Pics or GTFO

4/5/2021 10:57:31 PM

TKE-Teg
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Will do when he's actually...here, lol.

4/6/2021 12:24:14 PM

TKE-Teg
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Lemons race was titties!

5/11/2021 6:16:27 PM

Air
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Going to VIR this weekend with NASA.
WGI with chumpcar memorial day weekend.
CMP with chump June 26

5/12/2021 2:54:54 PM

smoothcrim
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still driving an LS s13?

5/12/2021 3:00:02 PM

smoothcrim
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has anyone done grid life? seems very heavily targeted to japanese tuner cars. outside an mr2, my car looks dynamically well matched to a class that'd be largely be stock engine mustangs and NA corvettes while I'm allowed to do whatever I want with boost and bolt ons. I can't see much competing under 115k msrp, stock engine config, no FI allowed for v8s, and all motor internals must stay stock. 996 gt3 though not sure that counts when adjusted for inflation, c6 z06 might be out based on inflation, so you're left with boxsters/caymen/gt4s, mustangs, grandsport or lower corvettes, and gozilla. I like my chances against all but maybe gozilla.

I mainly stopped racing motorcycles because I couldn't compete just on a cost basis. I could ride the wheels off my bike, but at 10 years old on used tires, just getting into the points was the real victory. Funny enough, I went chasing more money to race at work, now I have more money and very little time to race Anyway, that's what's appealing about gridlife to me. There aren't a million events and the demographic is younger and generally on a much smaller budget than scca or the like.

[Edited on May 16, 2021 at 9:58 AM. Reason : I don't have any local friends to do shitbox racing like lemons/chump with fwiw]

5/16/2021 9:57:31 AM

TKE-Teg
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Thinking about buying an MR2 for track duty. Found one at a very appealing price...

5/18/2021 1:11:20 PM

theDuke866
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which gen?

5/18/2021 9:00:26 PM

TKE-Teg
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3rd gen. Wouldn't be "fast" but would be reliable and insanely low consumables.

5/19/2021 10:18:47 AM

Air
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Still have the LS13 but its been sitting for a few years. It needs a fuel system and a cage.

5/19/2021 1:51:37 PM

TKE-Teg
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Just bought a 2000 MR2 to turn into a track/race vehicle.

6/15/2021 8:54:39 AM

Ahmet
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MORE INFO PICS

6/15/2021 10:36:12 AM

TKE-Teg
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Took the AMG to track for the first time 2 weeks ago. Results were predictable, as in

I'm now a disciple at the alter of high hp cars, haha.

https://youtu.be/5BhvhVccu_4

Here was my best lap of weekend. Was about 7 laps into the session IIRC, and had been behind the red cayman (that I pass at beginning of video) for a few laps at that point. Was the last session on Sunday so the track was clearing out a bit.

FYI the data overlay is off sync and also inaccurate. I'll post a helmet cam POV of same lap later.

[Edited on December 1, 2021 at 3:13 PM. Reason : ]

12/1/2021 3:12:28 PM

smoothcrim
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nice! I was at AMP last weekend and saw 2 mazda suvs out there!

90% sure I'm buying a legends car for track duty and just towing it with my wagon

12/1/2021 5:02:09 PM

TKE-Teg
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^lol what organization was hosting? There was a Cayenne on track at my event, in Green group.

I'll be at Road Atlanta next Friday - Sunday for a Lemons race.

FYI the transmission did really well on track. I know we'd talked about that a bit previously.

12/2/2021 11:50:50 AM

smoothcrim
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atlanta driving society

good to hear about the trans. I'd expect it goes well with a nice cooler for the clutch fluid

12/6/2021 2:00:49 PM

TKE-Teg
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Yeah, so its fine. However when I had the car jacked up to switch brakes back over I removed a bunch of panels underneath to "napkin sketch" some ideas for brake ducting...and noticed some fluid residue on a panel, and on the exhaust pipes. I think the transmission puked out fluid at some point.

Also the front rotors (brand new) are destroyed haha. But FCP Euro FTW - I'll get more for free (minus return shipping). My front pads look like they're down to half thickness (6mm) and roughly half of the front caliper piston dust boots are toast (almost literally). Caliper rebuilds on the way...and then a cooling solution.

[Edited on December 14, 2021 at 12:55 PM. Reason : ]

12/14/2021 12:53:06 PM

Air
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VIR with tscc Feb 14/15

VIR south with Champcar March 5th

Winter repairs ongoing for bigger and better races. Gong to Daytona and Ozarks int. Later in the spring

1/20/2022 11:01:10 PM

StTexan
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1/20/2022 11:23:37 PM

TKE-Teg
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Lemons at Barber Motorsports Park in 2 weeks.

Frozen Frenzy at VIR Grand Course with THSCC end of February.

Lemons at CMP in April.

1/21/2022 1:44:38 PM

smoothcrim
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I'll be at vir for those dates as well. I think Ahmet will be there too. trying to get Azaka to come out too

[Edited on January 23, 2022 at 10:15 PM. Reason : n]

1/23/2022 10:14:53 PM

TKE-Teg
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Ahmet is coming to FF.

What you bringing to run?

1/24/2022 11:16:30 AM

smoothcrim
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probly lotus, maybe r8 if weather sucks

1/24/2022 2:55:24 PM

TKE-Teg
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Oh man, 4 of us from TWW will be there. haha.

If we can convince Quinn to come up for the day it'll make five.

1/25/2022 8:59:25 AM

TKE-Teg
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Frozen Frenzy this coming weekend!

2/21/2022 11:47:56 AM

Specter
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^ Wish I could go but will be traveling for work. Have fun!

Last summer I picked up an NB Miata with 5MT, Torsen 4.1, and the VVT 1.8. Bone stock aside from Tein coilovers. It has some body damage to the rear quarter panel, so I'm thinking it could be a fun track prep project candidate, not that I need another project car. My last Miata was an NA with no power adders and while it was fun in the corners the lack of power on the straights was annoying. I once rode along with an instructor who was running a turbo NA 1.8 on low boost and holy shit did that thing fly. So I'm thinking to build something similar with this one, maybe target 200-220whp but balance it out with a huge ass wing and a diffuser kit.

2/24/2022 8:58:37 PM

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