....using your wireless router using a packet sniffer?

people are stealing my wireless signal, but i don't want to secure it. i konw i can get mac addresses from the router itself, but i want to use something like wireshark.

i know very little about how it works only that non-switched hubs allow me to monitor fine and routers restrict me to only my own packets. is there a way to allow my router to act like a non switched hub in this one aspect?

11/14/2006 12:30:26 PM

why not secure it?

11/14/2006 12:34:23 PM

also would it work if i was connected via a hub between the wireless router and the cable modem.

i have roadrunner, and i haven't gotten this to work.

11/14/2006 12:34:51 PM

I think the smartest solution here would be to secure your wireless network.

11/14/2006 12:45:41 PM

see now that takes all the fun outta it....

11/14/2006 12:49:44 PM

Well, it's better than the feds busting your door down because someone's been running a kiddie porn server off of your network.

11/14/2006 12:50:43 PM

a packet sniffer will not work as you intend. it can only sniff packets that it can see, and all wireless packets are contained and sent directly between source and destination, unlike the wired connections which bleed the data everywhere along the network while looking for it's destination. typically your packet sniffer will have to be within the data path taken for the packets. if you were to put a packet-sniffing capable router between your wireless router and the internet, then you would be able to monitor said traffic.

but really ... you should just secure it.

11/14/2006 12:53:33 PM

just ban that mac address. If you're trying to figure out who it is forget it. It can be anyone within a 100 yards depending on the strength of your wireless. Just ban the mac address if you want to leave your wireless open.

You might actually do them more harm that way. Say their roommate also connects through your wireless. Suddenly they can't but their roommate can. They won't know (most probably) that they are banned. The connection is simply refused. They'll spend hours trying to figure out how to not pay $40 a month because their too fucking lazy to get a job.

It makes me laugh how determined and hard working people who don't want to pay for something are.

11/14/2006 1:07:40 PM

http://www.thetechzone.com/?m=show&id=594

11/14/2006 1:14:50 PM

Quote :

"a packet sniffer will not work as you intend. it can only sniff packets that it can see, and all wireless packets are contained and sent directly between source and destination, unlike the wired connections which bleed the data everywhere along the network while looking for it's destination. typically your packet sniffer will have to be within the data path taken for the packets."

You sure?

11/14/2006 1:42:17 PM

unless the router sniffs the wireless packets, yea, fairly. do you have input on it or are you being smart?

11/14/2006 1:44:32 PM

ok so i have cable modem -> wired router -> hub -> wireless router.


if i connect to the hub should i be able to sniff the wireless router?

[Edited on November 14, 2006 at 2:14 PM. Reason : .]

11/14/2006 2:14:29 PM

You SHOULD be able to sniff any/all traffic directly from your wired router, no need for a hub. The BEST way would be to plug a wired connection into your wireless router and go from there.

Also, define what you mean by you "can't secure it". Are you trying out all of this for fun? If so, SECURE the damned thing, have two of your machines generate some traffic, and test out some tools first. Don't let the bandwidth stealer have fun before you are first prepared.

11/14/2006 2:42:46 PM

well i disabled wireless completly, plugged the monitoring computer into the hub and created some wired traffic with my laptop on the wireless router..... i can't pick up any of it...

i read about how some multi speed hubs would isolate 10mb connections from the 100mb ones but they are both operating at 100.



and yes all this is for fun/educational... i've completly disabled wireless untill i figure out how to siff everything coming out of the router.

[Edited on November 14, 2006 at 3:06 PM. Reason : .]

11/14/2006 3:04:32 PM

http://www.ethereal.com/

11/14/2006 7:07:17 PM

more like:
http://www.kismetwireless.net/
http://www.netstumbler.com/
http://airsnort.shmoo.com/

11/14/2006 7:30:54 PM

note that it's also possible for them to monitor you

which is why you should at least half-ass secure the damn thing

ALSO HAHAHAHAHAHA

Quote :

"and all wireless packets are contained and sent directly between source and destination, unlike the wired connections which bleed the data everywhere along the network while looking for it's destination."

EXACTLY WHAT THIS GUY SAID, HE KNOWS HIS SHIT

[Edited on November 14, 2006 at 9:43 PM. Reason : *]

11/14/2006 9:40:30 PM

Quote :

"They'll spend hours trying to figure out how to not pay $40 a month because their too fucking lazy to get a job. It makes me laugh how determined and hard working people who don't want to pay for something are. "

so true. but not ALWAYS. my gf had roadrunner for about 4 months and it only worked maybe 25% of the time, so she stole wireless from one of her neighbors most of the time. eventually she just dropped the roadrunner and has been using the wireless connection ever since. she's not doing p2p stuff or anything. and it's apparently far more dependable than the $40/month service was. go figure.

11/15/2006 3:59:21 AM

Quote :

"and all wireless packets are contained and sent directly between source and destination, unlike the wired connections which bleed the data everywhere along the network while looking for it's destination"

1) Explain how RF signals are point to point
2) Explain how data "bleeds everywhere" in a switched network.

11/15/2006 7:14:42 AM

ok, wasn't trying to be entirely technical, i deserve the shame ...

i forgot his RF signal was unencrypted traffic, but he has it that way, so yep, that's the easiest way to find out what's being transmitted. RF signal is of course over the air and very interceptable, which is why it should always be encrypted.

my meaning with the wireless packets being contained, was that when you are wired into the wireless router, you are not going to see that traffic across your wired network that they generate/receive because the router contains them and sends them from the antenna to their destination (internet). he could either capture the packets in the air, or on the other side of the router by using a hub and watching the traffic. the second isn't as effective as the first. i definitely didn't mean to infer that the RF signal was only traveling in a straight line.

and you're right, i also over-generalized about wired, in a switched environment it's very point-to-point, in a hub environment the data spreads looking for it's destination.

did i miss anything?

thanks everyone for keeping my poorly worded posts in check

11/15/2006 8:36:12 AM

sarijoul, has your girlfriend ever considered that she might be an idiot?

if her roadrunner failed to work 75% of the time, and her neighbor's roadrunner did not fail (wireless isn't magic or anything, her neighbor has to have an internet connection too), odds are the problem isn't her roadrunner.

11/15/2006 7:34:10 PM