http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/02/private_police.html

Quote :

"In Raleigh, N.C., employees of Capitol Special Police patrol apartment buildings, a bowling alley and nightclubs, stopping suspicious people, searching their cars and making arrests. Sounds like a good thing, but Capitol Special Police isn't a police force at all -- it's a for-profit security company hired by private property owners."

Quote :

"Also, many of the laws that protect us from police abuse do not apply to the private sector. Constitutional safeguards that regulate police conduct, interrogation and evidence collection do not apply to private individuals. Information that is illegal for the government to collect about you can be collected by commercial data brokers, then purchased by the police."

I wasn't a trouble maker growing up, so this is kinda of not much concern to me, but I think that this practice in Raleigh should be stopped. I don't see the legality of any non official police force in having any control over me. Citizens arrest where a gun is involved? Sounds like assault with intent to harm.

2/28/2007 2:38:50 PM

what kind of authority do they have?

i.e. what happens to me when I look them squarrr in the eye, laugh and say "you're just a rent a cop?"

2/28/2007 2:53:29 PM

2/28/2007 2:54:47 PM

Quote :

"it's a for-profit security company hired by private property owners"

Do said property owners own apartment buildings, a bowling alley and nightclubs?

2/28/2007 3:13:51 PM

If I feel that I'm in a situation where I do not believe I should obey a public rental officer I'll tell them straight that I have no intention of following their order (short of "put down the gun" or "Step away from the nuclear warhead") and that they need to call in RPD. I've had waaaay too many RPD officers tell me about the problems they encounter with rent a cops (this includes NCSU police).

I personally cannot see myself ever in a situation like this because I typically don't put myself in locations or places where said shit can "hit the fan".

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 3:17 PM. Reason : !]

2/28/2007 3:17:01 PM

Quote :

"Private police officers are different. They don't work for us; they work for corporations. They're focused on the priorities of their employers or the companies that hire them. They're less concerned with due process, public safety and civil rights. Also, many of the laws that protect us from police abuse do not apply to the private sector. Constitutional safeguards that regulate police conduct, interrogation and evidence collection do not apply to private individuals. Information that is illegal for the government to collect about you can be collected by commercial data brokers, then purchased by the police. We've all seen policemen "reading people their rights" on television cop shows. If you're detained by a private security guard, you don't have nearly as many rights. "

This blogger is a fucking drama queen.

What are the rent-a-cops gonna do? They don't arrest you or charge you with a crime. They are simply a deterrant. I could see where "illegal search-and-seizure" would be an issue if they were actually putting people in jail, but we all know that rent-a-cops don't have any real authority over us. They are just armed security guards and about all they can do is turn you over to the real police.

2/28/2007 3:17:47 PM

Quote :

"rent a cops (this includes NCSU police)"

um


^they have a lot more authority than you think

2/28/2007 3:19:17 PM

He's not talking about rent-a-cop, he's talking about private police organizations that have been given police powers, such as power to arrest, use deadly force, and search law enforcement databases. Some of these are run by state agencies, such as NCSU and the dept of agriculture. However, I remember hearing that the "police" at Southpoint Mall have some/all of these priveleges.

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 3:24 PM. Reason : ?]

2/28/2007 3:21:33 PM

i thought the ncsu cops WERE real cops

2/28/2007 3:31:21 PM

Yea, they are. They have been for about 7 years now.

Talks about private police in NC

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/01/AR2007010100665.html

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 3:32 PM. Reason : ?]

2/28/2007 3:32:37 PM

Quote :

" This blogger is a fucking drama queen. What are the rent-a-cops gonna do? They don't arrest you or charge you with a crime. They are simply a deterrant. I could see where "illegal search-and-seizure" would be an issue if they were actually putting people in jail, but we all know that rent-a-cops don't have any real authority over us. They are just armed security guards and about all they can do is turn you over to the real police."

That's exactly his point. These people are walking around with guns, often overstepping their limits, but they shouldn't have any real authority over us. If you see some hourly paid high school drop-out on a power-trip with a weapon and a badge, you're basically at his mercy if he chooses to enforce his will on you.

But it says that in some states, they are being granted police rights, which presumably, would include arrest, detaining and searching. The problem is, guards/police working for private companies have much different motivations and incentives than the "real police", who work for "you", via the government.

--
and while Schneier may be accused of being overly dramatic sometimes, he is one of the world's leading experts on computer and homeland security.

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 3:38 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2007 3:37:03 PM

These are not rent-a-cops. These are company police officers who are hired by apartments and shit to police a small area. They have most of the same powers as regular cops, but their jurisdiciton is limited to the small area they are hired for.

They are often poorly trained and highly unprofessional. They are a hundred times worse than real cops, and they can and will get physical without telling you they are real police officers, then cuff you, and take you downtown on charges of assault on a law enforcement officer if you fight back to defend yourself.

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 3:42 PM. Reason : better.]

2/28/2007 3:39:53 PM

Quote :

"In North Carolina, the state Department of Justice requires company police to go through the same basic training as public officers. They have full police powers on the property they are hired to protect."

2/28/2007 3:42:26 PM

^Yeah, I'm aware. But many of these guys are either absolute jokes or total cowboys.

Ask a judge what he or she thinks about the Westek Police.

2/28/2007 3:44:59 PM

another article, http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070211/NEWS/702110389/1051

2/28/2007 3:48:21 PM

n/m



[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 3:51 PM. Reason : good link]

2/28/2007 3:49:11 PM

It's an interesting topic. On one hand, they're not police officers and do not have the same law enforcement authority. On the other hand, if they are hired by property owners to protect the valuables and safety of that property and you are on the property, it seems they should have some say in what goes on. I mean a rent-a-cop in a jewelry store should have the right to tackle a would-be thief making his getaway. But the searching of vehicles and things definitely seems over the line to me.

2/28/2007 4:14:34 PM

Quote :

"Under a unique North Carolina law - which supporters in Raleigh are now pushing to expand - licensed firms have full police powers on properties they are hired to protect, including the power to write citations, to investigate and to arrest. North Carolina, according to security professionals, is the only state that allows for-hire police, although some cities like Boston have similar programs. For some, the arrangement is an economical way to fill in gaps traditional law enforcement can't. For others, policing-for-hire raises serious concerns about accountability underscored by the legal problems now facing the two private special police companies based in Wilmington. "

Quote :

"As of Jan. 31, Pinnacle has two officers, while Inter-Pol has four, according to the N.C. Department of Justice. Both operate under laws that authorize 76 non-municipal departments, including New Hanover Regional Medical Center's special police, numerous campus forces and more than 20 private for-hire companies, some of whom take a highly public role. In Durham County, private police officers working for Wackenhut Corp. patrol the county administration building, the library, Durham Technical Community College and the Durham bus terminal. A Florida-based international security company, Wackenhut runs its North Carolina police force like a public department with immediate investigations of alleged misconduct, said Sam Moore, director of about 60 Raleigh-area police officers for Wackenhut. The only difference might be how much faster any discipline comes, he said. "If it calls for termination, they are terminated," said Moore, whose officers average about 15 years' experience on public departments before joining. Ron Hodge, deputy chief of police for the city of Durham, said he's had no major problems with Wackenhut officers. Indeed, private police departments like Wackenhut have a much greater incentive to play by the rules, said Bruce Benson, an economics professor at Florida State University and author of To Serve and Protect: Privatization and Community in Criminal Justice. "If a private agency does something illegal, they face significant criminal as well as civil penalties," Benson said. "It's very difficult to sue a public agency.""

You learn something new every day.

With all the outsourcing of government functions nowadays, this really shouldn't surprise me. Privatization of law enforcement might be a good thing if done correctly, but I can see the grey area in civil liberties.

2/28/2007 4:27:36 PM

I wonder if someone could hire themselves to protect property they own and have law enforcement privledges? Interesting...

2/28/2007 4:33:21 PM

Quote :

"Citizens arrest where a gun is involved? Sounds like assault with intent to harm."

if someone that isnn't a sworn LEO does this to me you'll see it on the news, there is no excuse for "private police" pulling firearms on citizens and I honestly hope that if a "rent-a-cop" with no arrest powers does it to someone that he pays the price


btw, NCSU police are sworn and accredited police officers, as are the cops at crabtree valley mall and a few other places

2/28/2007 7:06:50 PM

Of course, private police firms are near and dear to a Libertarian's heart.

Private Police Firms (PPFs) could relieve the police of many jobs that detract from crime fighting. They could manage 911 systems where over 1/2 the calls are false alarms or non-emergencies. They could also do traffic control, escort funerals, do routine investigations for insurance purposes such as traffic accidents.

Competition would bring costs down for average people. Neighborhoods could work private police alarm responses into homeowner dues. Reg. police could be freed up for catching criminals and the tremendous savings to taxpayers would also be welcomed.

2/28/2007 8:18:35 PM

if I see a rent-a-cop trying to pull me over, I'll get out of the parking lot and into an area where they have no legal authority.

2/28/2007 11:04:39 PM

I'm not much on some rent-a-pig in a costume shop cop uniform violating my rights

enough real cops think they're above the law as it is, who needs a wannabe cop pushing authority

3/1/2007 11:49:06 AM

^^ If they are private police, they can follow you from their property to the state line.

3/1/2007 12:14:02 PM

Quote :

"I'm not much on some rent-a-pig in a costume shop cop uniform violating my rights "

Well you will have an easier time suing a private police force than the public one.

If you start from the premise that we as individuals have a right to protect our lives and property, then we also have a right to band together to collectively protect those rights. This is why we hire a police force. We can hire a publicly funded force which answers mainly to the policitians who oversee it. Or we can hire private police who must function under market forces, answering to shareholders and customers.

As far as our rights are concerned, neither a public or private police force may violate our rights.

3/1/2007 2:28:16 PM

Quote :

"Well you will have an easier time suing a private police force than the public one. "

This isn't true.

And I'd rather like that I can get $texas out of the government if they illegally fuck me up than some private firm that might not have shit for money.

3/1/2007 2:41:15 PM

In general its usually easier to sue (and win) a private company rather than a public company...not saying this is the case with police, but just in general

3/1/2007 2:59:44 PM