How come I never see any of it? Is my own personal bias blinding me? I never see a bunch of White people going "Hey, here's how we're going to put the Black man down today..."

(This is a serious thread.)

4/13/2007 3:04:13 AM

I'm not even white and the white people I work with scheme on the negros, around me... it's weird.

[Edited on April 13, 2007 at 3:07 AM. Reason : ,]

4/13/2007 3:06:39 AM

Quote :

"Is my own personal bias blinding me?"

yes

4/13/2007 3:09:29 AM

By bias I mean denial, in the sense that since I'm not a minority I'm not "looking for racism," I don't know. I guess since I don't get a White benefits check in the mail each month (where do I sign up?) I am just confused about this whole racism thing today.

4/13/2007 3:21:11 AM

You're either naively not racist, extremely racist, or are unicorn-like in the crowd you run with.

4/13/2007 3:26:01 AM

Quote :

"since I'm not a minority I'm not "looking for racism,""

So, all minorities are just "looking for racism"? You damn racist.

4/13/2007 10:11:38 AM

I'm loving the idea of a Moron and God talking about God's naivety about racism.

That said, the amount of racism you see on a daily basis isn't necessarily as prevalent as Moron is getting at here... You have to take into account the geographic area where you live, economics come into play, not to mention the places you spend your time.

Personally I see very little racism on a personal basis, and that's largely because of being anti-social I'm sure, but my feeling is that it's a widespread problem that is very localized in nature. (if that makes any sense)

4/13/2007 10:16:29 AM

but as a white person, you can't, say, apply for a job as a black person.

4/13/2007 10:36:59 AM

But I can say, talk to my black friends about issues they've had applying for jobs as black people.

Or does that not count either?

4/13/2007 10:48:34 AM

hey i'm not saying racism is rampant. but assuming that you can have any perspective on whether racism exists in any real way is pretty hard as a white person.

4/13/2007 10:50:35 AM

I'm gonna call BS on that my friend, and it's not 'cause I don't love you.

The fact that I don't personally get slapped with the kind of racism under discussion hear (White > Black) can't possibly invalidate what I have to say in an open discourse on how prevalent racism is in modern America. That's like saying because I don't play Basketball that I can't have a perspective on the game.

Black people can't have a monopoly on the discourse with regards to racism... Especially not of we as a community are going to try to come together and do something about it.

4/13/2007 10:59:30 AM

check my post again. i didn't speak in any absolutes.

but to use your analogy, i would venture to say that having never played basketball, you'd have a very difficult time speaking with any authority on it.

4/13/2007 11:07:22 AM

I see far more homophobia and sexism in the workplace than I do racism. Oh and if there is a term for hate-speech/thought against stupid people than that is pretty rampant around here, and I am guilty.

4/13/2007 11:08:43 AM

Quote :

"That's like saying because I don't play Basketball that I can't have a perspective on the game. "

i agree 100%

however, you may not play basketball but do you watch it? that affects your perspective

if you didn't watch basketball, didn't play it, didn't pay attention to it, then no, you cannot have a legitimate perspective on it

and i think that's how a lot of people feel about racism and the conversation on it. a lot of people are completely blind to what actually is happening and therefore can't have a legit view

[Edited on April 13, 2007 at 11:14 AM. Reason : jank]

4/13/2007 11:11:35 AM

Racism exists in Africa too. And in Asia. And anywhere else you can think of that have two legged humans running around. I don't think it's something you can "fix" persay. Just have to learn to love and have compassion.

Personal Example
I'm Hmong (no, not from Mongolia). The Hmong people are a small and separate ethnic group that live in the mountains/hills of Laos, Vietnam, and Thailand. During the Vietnam war, my father and his fathers fought on the side of the Americans. The CIA secretly trained and equipped them. They promised the Hmong that once they won the war, the Hmong would have their freedom. Of course, everyone knows the US didn't win the war. After the war, there was mass genocide of the Hmong people.

Even to this day, genocide still occurs, but in secrecy. The Hmong are labeled as "rebels" by the Laotian government because of their actions during the Vietnam war. The Hmong in Laos are definately looked down upon and discriminated. More info here: http://www.factfinding.org

4/13/2007 11:24:30 AM

how can we defeat racism once and for all and finally become equals if we're constantly reminded by jackson and sharpton just how unequal we are, just how different we are?

Racism continues because Jackson and Sharpton become rich off of it. There is an inherent conflict of interest that they are unwilling to put down.

4/13/2007 11:26:18 AM

^^ I had a friend of a friend who was Hmong and his his grandmother made this tree bark moonshine that tasted like the wrath of god. Shit was delicious.

Quote :

"Is my own personal bias blinding me?"

Yes.

4/13/2007 11:28:36 AM

Quote :

"Racism continues because Jackson and Sharpton become rich off of it. There is an inherent conflict of interest that they are unwilling to put down."

man you're a sad sad person.

4/13/2007 11:30:35 AM

That's right, you didn't. I did at the end there, saying that black people can't have a monopoly on the discourse...

The part of my post that was a direct response was:

Quote :

"The fact that I don't personally get slapped with the kind of racism under discussion hear (White > Black) can't possibly invalidate what I have to say in an open discourse on how prevalent racism is in modern America."

And I have to say that personally I reject your ventured statement. It is entirely possible to understand the game, or the problem at hand on a level consummate with this discourse without having peronally been on the court.

That said, you'll note that in my original post, I stated quite clearly that a variety of factors impact one's daily interactions with regards to racism... of course Race is itself a factor, but I don't think you can discount someone speaking with any authority on the subject because they're not black. Furthermore, I'm on your side with regards to the issue:

It's a widespread problem, albeit concentrated to localized areas across the country and it needs to be dealt with.

4/13/2007 11:34:54 AM

Quote :

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

You tell me that Jackson and Sharpton want that... you tell me that they actually want equality and that they want to be judged by character and not color....

They live on advancing affirmative action... they live on getting on imus while condemning the innocent Duke boys... they live on accepting others' apologies but never apologize for their own racial ignorance.

If there was no racism, Jackson and Sharpton would not be rich.


They are the OPPOSITE of what true civil rights leaders (King) taught and died for. Jackson and Sharpton are not to be revered as Civil Rights leaders, but those who perpetuate racism.

4/13/2007 11:35:22 AM

You make it sound like if Jackson and Sharpton weren't around we'd all be dancing in circles. And according to different articles I read, they weren't responsible for Imus getting fired as much as other NBC employees.

4/13/2007 11:43:25 AM

(though imus was on msnbc, he worked for cbs radio -- i'm not sure if this is what you're referring to or not)

4/13/2007 11:44:15 AM

^^^ alot of that is true..

sharpton and jackson are not interested in equality as much as revenge

4/13/2007 11:48:13 AM

Quote :

""Racism continues because Jackson and Sharpton become rich off of it. There is an inherent conflict of interest that they are unwilling to put down.""

Well said! GG

Quote :

"You make it sound like if Jackson and Sharpton weren't around we'd all be dancing in circles."

Well if they'd stop ginning up conflicts, we could at least start drawing the circle to dance around.

You can't ram racial harmony down people's throats. Sharpton has done nothing to help the races get along better.

4/13/2007 11:55:26 AM

how can you have posted on t-dub for so long and not seen racism???

4/13/2007 11:57:27 AM

there is nothing else to say.

4/13/2007 12:00:06 PM

I thought we have gone over this before. It isn't color, it is income, and it just happens that more blacks are poorer than whites because we put them in a hole, so it only looks like racism.

When I think back to high school, the black guys I was best friends with, weren't poverty poor and I never ever thought of them as being "black". They were just my friends. The other black guys, the ones that got in trouble or didn't amount to much were the ones that were a lot worse off, and it's easy to just right them off as niggers or what have you because that is the harshest term to describe them with.


And btw, everything I just said about the black guys, I can apply that to any of the white, Mexican, or Vietnamese folk that went to my high school nearly equally.

[Edited on April 13, 2007 at 12:15 PM. Reason : oops]

4/13/2007 12:15:09 PM

Quote :

"Well if they'd stop ginning up conflicts, we could at least start drawing the circle to dance around. You can't ram racial harmony down people's throats. Sharpton has done nothing to help the races get along better."

well said.

Quote :

"I thought we have gone over this before. It isn't color, it is income, and it just happens that more blacks are poorer than whites because we put them in a hole, so it only looks like racism."

one of the dumbest things ever uttered

4/13/2007 12:33:45 PM

Quote :

"one of the dumbest things ever uttered"

Really?

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/900835_katrina_factsheet.pdf


Here are some numbers for you

TABLE 1
Percent
white
Percent
black
Poverty
rate
Percent whites
in poverty
Percent blacks
in poverty
United States 75.1 12.3 12.4 9.1 24.9

That is, 75% of the US is white, 12.3% black, with 9.1% of whites being in poverty versus 24.9% of blacks.

So tell me how my statement is dumb. Tell me why when I see black folks of the same socio economic status of me, I don't even think about their color, I don't even see it.

4/13/2007 12:46:32 PM

You people are some stupid fuckers. Someone says something racist? Blame Jesse and Al. Why? Because they are black and obviously are the problem. Surely the problem couldnt be the fact that Imus has almost gotten fired for being a racist multiple times over the past 20 years. No, that doesnt matter at all.

Once again, you people have your heads in the sand. "What racism? I dont know anyone who belongs to the Klan, therefore racism doesnt exist" Fucking stupid.

In this country it is more than ok to hate Hispanics. It is encouraged to hate poor people. And as long as you dont actually admit it out loud it is ok to hate Blacks, Jews and damn near any other non WASP group. But of course, to admit that would mean you would actually have to address the world around you and admit there are problems in this country.

4/13/2007 12:46:37 PM

it's dumb because racism has nothing to do with income.

4/13/2007 12:47:37 PM

Thanks for restating my point

Quote :

"It isn't color, it is income, and it just happens that more blacks are poorer than whites because we put them in a hole, so it only looks like racism."

4/13/2007 12:53:03 PM

Of course racism still exists in America. Just look at TWW if you need an example. It won't disappear as long as blacks as a group continue to live up to (or down to) their stereotypes. You can point to remnants of slavery, inequal opportunities, the vicious cycle of poverty, etc. as factors in why blacks fall behind socioeconomically and frequently end up in prison, but ultimately people are judged by their actions, not their excuses.

Institutional racism, however, has been all but eradicated from society, with affirmative action being the notable exception.



[Edited on April 13, 2007 at 1:03 PM. Reason : 2]

4/13/2007 12:57:45 PM

^^so fuzzy zoeller thought tiger woods was poor?

[Edited on April 13, 2007 at 12:58 PM. Reason : .]

4/13/2007 12:57:51 PM

Quote :

"Of course racism still exists in America. Just look at TWW if you need an example"

/thread

4/13/2007 12:59:43 PM

Quote :

"^^so fuzzy zoeller thought tiger woods was poor?"

Anecdote ftw!

4/13/2007 1:04:20 PM

sorry i didn't pull out racism stats.

4/13/2007 1:07:26 PM

most of the racism i see among my whiteys is in the form of being scared of black people, or advising caution when they hear i'll be in a mostly black part of town. i think it's more ignorance than anything, as i don't think these white people compare the races and claim that whites are fundamentally better than black people.

my grandfather was kind of a bigot (think archie bunker), but then he would tell a story about all the black friends he had when he was growing up on a farm. they taught him how to swim, which is funny given the stereotypes about black people swimming.

[Edited on April 13, 2007 at 1:15 PM. Reason : forgot to close the [b]]

4/13/2007 1:14:50 PM

Quote :

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

You tell me how many black leaders in america today actually embrace that. How many? Bill Cosby is about the only one. Every other one of them makes excuses as to why their people are in jail or why a black stripper ho can't lie about being raped. They thrive on the fact that we are different. The leaders have no interest in equality because they wouldn't be around if there was true equality.

Martin Luther King, Jr., a man who was sincere in his convictions began a movement that went terribly awry. It's not about being equal anymore. Equality has nothing to do with it. They want to raise racial tensions because it gets them on the news. THey embrace black rappers that say things far worse than Imus. They embrace ebonics and call it a dialect.

Quote :

"most of the racism i see among my whiteys is in the form of being scared of black people, or advising caution when they hear i'll be in a mostly black part of town. i think it's more ignorance than anything"

Fucking ridiculous. If you know a certain part of town has disproportionately higher crime rates, why wouldn't you be cautions?!?!?! That is a product of children being raised without fathers, being raised in ghettos, and having role models such as Ludacris.

[Edited on April 13, 2007 at 1:20 PM. Reason : .]

4/13/2007 1:18:33 PM

To the people who said to look at TWW, I see people make racist remarks on here all the time but to me it seems to be purely for shock value "OMG I SAID N*GGERS LOL!!!" And I don't see anyone who seems to be genuinely thinking that they hate Black people.

And as for the comments about Blacks and crime, I don't think it's racist to be politically incorrect. If a poor part of Durham has high crime rates, and it has a high percentage of Black people, it's not racist if you are walking down there and you cross the street if you see a Black person dressed as a thug walking towards you. If you knew that people wearing red hats were mugging people at an alarming rate, and you saw someone wearing a red hat, wouldn't you be the least bit cautious?

Add to that media perpetuates that red hat wearing people love using guns and drugs. Just look at MTV where the videos show red hat people talking about how many guns they own and all the drugs they sell. When all you get exposed to in Cary about the culture of people with red hats is from television, how can you blame yourself for your instincts?

4/13/2007 1:33:19 PM

Quote :

"If you know a certain part of town has disproportionately higher crime rates, why wouldn't you be cautions?!?!?!"

white people see the blackness, not the crime rates. they wouldn't say anything if i was going to some redneck town where the crime rate was just as high as southeast raleigh, just because they wouldn't assume the same things about the white people there. and when black kids are in mostly white places, they are looked upon with suspicion, not because whites can tell that they are poor, but because they are black.

4/13/2007 1:40:42 PM

I'd be just as cautious.

By the way, redneck is a racial slur so don't use it.

4/13/2007 1:45:07 PM

Most of the "racism" isn't really racism at all. It's difficulty others have with culture. I don't even see race anymore really. I look at the person. What they look like, how they act, how they speak, their movements etc.

Look at the people that hate others... they CLAIM it's racism... but look at why they claim that. Jewish culture for example... the stereotypical jew is thifty (cheap), selfish you get the idea...

If you don't know any "devote" jew you only know what you've experienced. I've been lucky enough to know many jewish people who are nothing like stereotypical jews. So I know that belief is generally a falsehood in this area of the world.

However, the stereotypical behavior of a thug (dressed in baggy clothes, hat turned 45 degrees, walks with a limp, no belt, pants always fallin down, and a giant ass diamond earing and gold chains.) is rampant in this area and sure enough... 99.99% of the time I see someone like that they fit the bill

Rude, obnoxious, can't trust them, etc. So you could say I'm a culturist against thugs.

It doesn't mean I hate blacks or asians etc. I could care less what color your skin is. It's all about how you act. If you're "Keeping it real" I'm "Keeping you real far from my wallet and other valueable items".

4/13/2007 1:47:12 PM

Also, if you look at what white society deams as normal, it's behaved well educated etc. In black culture, and I'm sorry if you don't like it but it's true, it's "cool" to be stupid. Go to ANY public middle school or highschool. Look at the behavior of the average black male or black female. Compare it to their white counterpart.

There are lots of similarities but you can easily pick out the differences. Black women are often ruder or more straight forward. "I don't give a shit what you think about me". Ever heard that statement? It's a culture things at least in this area

The above statement coming from my experience in Middle School, and High school.

Now lets look at State. There is significantly less of that type of attitude from the black population? Why? Because those that made it to college didn't follow that idealism or belong to that subset of black culture.

I know I really suck at explaining these concepts. My sociology teacher was far better at it.

But because of the way each subculture works and the fact that the power exists in the white dominated culture, different cultural differences can cause issues when trying to get a job.

Look at a successful black male or black female. Now look at a successful white male or female? VERY little differences in manurisms, behaviors and other such. Look at unsuccessful persons of the same example. Notice how they all act more crude, obnoxious, etc. Very rarely do you find one of them making their way to the top. Usually they are called "Rappers" or "MC's" or they win the lottery.

It's all about the environment you are raised in. How you speak, what groups you hang around and the culture that eminates from them.

4/13/2007 1:53:58 PM

Quote :

"However, the stereotypical behavior of a thug (dressed in baggy clothes, hat turned 45 degrees, walks with a limp, no belt, pants always fallin down, and a giant ass diamond earing and gold chains.) is rampant in this area and sure enough... 99.99% of the time I see someone like that they fit the bill Rude, obnoxious, can't trust them, etc. So you could say I'm a culturist against thugs. It doesn't mean I hate blacks or asians etc. I could care less what color your skin is. It's all about how you act. If you're "Keeping it real" I'm "Keeping you real far from my wallet and other valueable items"."

This is how I feel. And I don't think this is being racist when you don't give someone the benefit of the doubt. "Oh, so you dress and act and talk like a criminal? Well, I'm sure you're just the nicest fellow."

And don't tell me that I just have to be accepting of their cultural identity either.

4/13/2007 1:54:51 PM

Quote :

"white people see the blackness, not the crime rates."

Not true. EVERY stereotype exists because there is a reasonable amount of the population that uphold it.

It's an education thing. When young black (men especially) begin going to school, taking care of their kids, and not introducing themselves in the oh so popular "black culture" where is is WRONG to read and speak "like the white man" then the problem can begin to solve itself.

Jesse Jackson does nothing for this. He gets mad when someone says nappy, not when a young, at risk black kid drops out of school and joins a gang... merely because the press is there when Imus says something but not when the kid joins the gang. Cant' get press time where there's no press around.

King taught the EXACT OPPOSITE!

4/13/2007 1:55:45 PM

Quote :

"Jesse Jackson does nothing for this. He gets mad when someone says nappy, not when a young, at risk black kid drops out of school and joins a gang... merely because the press is there when Imus says something but not when the kid joins the gang. Cant' get press time where there's no press around."

i'd suggest maybe you actually read/listen to some of what either one of these people have said (ie not just what is on the news) before you make these sorts of statements.

[Edited on April 13, 2007 at 1:59 PM. Reason : .]

4/13/2007 1:57:45 PM

Quote :

"(before sarijoul edited it: blacks have smaller brains than whites"

had no idea that was a stereotype... must not be a stereotype at all then.

[Edited on April 13, 2007 at 1:59 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on April 13, 2007 at 2:00 PM. Reason : .]

4/13/2007 1:58:15 PM

i was giving a stereotype of blacks from 100 years ago.

4/13/2007 1:59:42 PM

stereotypes change as cultures change.

4/13/2007 2:00:51 PM