User not logged in - login - register
Home Calendar Books School Tool Photo Gallery Message Boards Users Statistics Advertise Site Info
go to bottom | |
 Message Boards » » Ethanol would produce more ozone than gasoline? Page [1]  
markgoal
All American
15996 Posts
user info
edit post

According to a Stanford study:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-ethanol18apr18,1,6885937.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

Quote :
"Warning is sounded on ethanol use
The fuel would create more ground-level ozone than gasoline if used heavily, a study finds. Critics disagree on the overall risk.
By Janet Wilson
Times Staff Writer

April 18, 2007

Ethanol, widely touted as a greenhouse-gas-cutting fuel, would have serious health effects if heavily used in cars, producing more ground-level ozone than gasoline, particularly in the Los Angeles Basin, according to a Stanford University study out today.

"Ethanol is being promoted as a clean and renewable fuel that will reduce global warming and air pollution," said Mark Z. Jacobson, an associate professor of civil and environmental engineering and author of the study in the online edition of Environmental Science and Technology. "But our results show that a high blend of ethanol poses an equal or greater risk to public health than gasoline, which already causes significant health damage."

Ozone is a key ingredient in smog, and when inhaled even at low levels it can harm lungs, aggravate asthma and impair immune systems.

The health effects from ethanol use are the same whether it is made from corn or other plant products, Jacobson found.

The study determined that a 9% increase in ozone-related deaths would occur in Greater Los Angeles, and a 4% increase nationally, by 2020 if a form of ethanol called E85, were used instead of gasoline. In the Southeast, by contrast, mortality rates would decrease slightly.

The type of fuel used in the study — 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline — emits less greenhouse gases than other types, some researchers say.

"Today, there is a lot of investment in ethanol," Jacobson said. "The question is, if we're not getting any health benefits, then why continue to promote ethanol?"

He used a computer model to simulate air quality in 2020 — when ethanol-fueled vehicles are expected to be widely available in the United States — with a focus on Los Angeles. His study is the first to combine emissions data with multiple other variables, including climate, population density and current amounts of air pollution, he said.

"The chemicals that come out of a tailpipe are affected by a variety of factors, including chemical reactions, temperatures, sunlight, clouds, wind and precipitation," he said.

"Overall, health effects depend on exposure to these airborne chemicals, which varies from region to region…. Since Los Angeles has historically been the most polluted airshed in the U.S., the test bed for nearly all U.S. air pollution regulation and home to about 6% of the U.S. population, it is also ideal for a more detailed study," Jacobson wrote.

President Bush has made increased use of ethanol and other alternative fuels a centerpiece of his strategy to increase reliance on domestic fuels while reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

In his State of the Union address in January, Bush called for annual national production of 35 billion gallons of ethanol by 2017, up from 5 billion gallons in 2006 and nearly five times the target set by Congress. The president's deputy press secretary requested a copy of Jacobson's study Tuesday but had no immediate comment.

Kristen Hellmer, a spokeswoman for the White House Council on Environmental Quality, said she had not had a chance to review the study, but reiterated the administration's support for ethanol.

"I think there are pollutants that contribute to ozone which may slightly increase as a result of more ethanol use, which can be managed by tools which we have available under the Clean Air Act," Hellmer said.

Jennifer Wood of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency echoed those remarks in an e-mail.

"While EPA has not fully reviewed the study, the agency's experience and analysis in developing renewable-fuel standards contradicts the underlying assumptions of the study," she wrote. "The increased use of renewable fuels, like E85, will significantly reduce greenhouse gas, benzene and carbon monoxide emissions while strengthening our nation's energy security and supporting American farming communities.

"The pollutants that contribute to ozone, which may slightly increase as a result of additional ethanol use, can be managed by the suite of effective tools available under the Clean Air Act."

California Air Resources Board spokeswoman Gennet Paauwe said staff researchers are designing their own study to examine potential effects of ethanol on air pollution and health.

Jacobson said there are already an estimated 5,000 premature U.S. deaths annually tied to ozone exposure, in spite of Clean Air Act regulations. He said that he had assumed large reductions in emissions by 2020 because of more stringent air regulations, but that even then, there were significant health risks.

Brooke Coleman, director of the Renewable Energy Action Project in San Francisco, said Jacobson was a respected air quality expert but criticized him for saying there would be increased deaths from E85 and smog.

"He is ignoring the fact that E85 greatly reduces emissions that are much more harmful to humans than smog, such as toxics and soot" particulates, Coleman said in an e-mail.

Jacobson replied that "there is no evidence available to indicate that particulate matter will decrease with the use of E85…. The effect of E85 on increasing mortality is firmly grounded in science based on information available today, and not misleading. What is misleading is the claims made to date that ethanol will improve air quality and health."

Thirty states, so far, have public E85 fueling stations. Most are in the Midwest. California has one, in San Diego.

*


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
janet.wilson@latimes.com
"


What this article doesn't make clear is if the increase in ozone-related deaths is compared to continued use of gasoline in 2020 or to today.

4/18/2007 9:48:40 AM

BobbyDigital
Thots and Prayers
41777 Posts
user info
edit post

Let's also consider that it takes more energy to create ethanol than you can derive from it.

ethanol is not a feasible solution to the fuel/energy crisis.

4/18/2007 11:56:13 AM

The Dude
All American
6502 Posts
user info
edit post

Hydrogen fuel cells FTW

4/18/2007 12:03:47 PM

State409c
Suspended
19558 Posts
user info
edit post

I don't get it, we are being inundated daily by tons and tons and tons of free energy. It's brain dead dumb to me that there isn't a bigger effort to utilize it somehow.

4/18/2007 12:16:46 PM

markgoal
All American
15996 Posts
user info
edit post

Additionally, current CAFE standards only take into account gasoline usage, so an 8 mpg fuel guzzler would be counted like it gets 53 mpg.

The ethanol push is little more than another racket for the corn industry. Must be nice to have the presidential caucuses.

4/18/2007 12:18:47 PM

LoneSnark
All American
12317 Posts
user info
edit post

Ethanol production is also slated to produce higher meat and milk prices in the coming months thanks to dramatically higher feed prices.

4/18/2007 1:54:36 PM

TreeTwista10
minisoldr
148442 Posts
user info
edit post

question about hydrogen fuel cells

if we switch to hydrogen fuel cells since they dont emit CO2 like regular combustion engines...hydrogen fuel cells' exhaust is water, correct?

and water vapor is a more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2...so how would that help climate change?

4/18/2007 1:58:06 PM

LoneSnark
All American
12317 Posts
user info
edit post

Hydrogen is made from natural gas, which is a fossil fuel and sure as hell does emit CO2.

So your question is kinda silly, hydrogen does not cut down on greenhouse gas emissions one bit.

4/18/2007 2:35:24 PM

TreeTwista10
minisoldr
148442 Posts
user info
edit post

i saw something on Future Cars on DiscoveryHD last night about some type of hydrogen car thats only emission was water

4/18/2007 2:36:11 PM

spöokyjon

18617 Posts
user info
edit post

The production of the hydrogen itself emits CO2.

4/18/2007 2:40:59 PM

State409c
Suspended
19558 Posts
user info
edit post

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/production/electro_processes.html

Quote :
"Hydrogen produced via electrolysis can result in zero greenhouse gas emissions, depending on the source of the electricity used. The source of the required electricity—including its cost and efficiency, as well as emissions resulting from electricity generation—must be considered when evaluating the benefits of hydrogen production via electrolysis. In many regions of the country, today's power grid is not ideal for providing the electricity required for electrolysis because of the greenhouse gases released and the amount of energy required to generate electricity. Hydrogen production via electrolysis is being pursued for renewable (wind) and nuclear options. These pathways result in virtually zero GHG emissions and criteria pollutants."

4/18/2007 2:49:36 PM

LoneSnark
All American
12317 Posts
user info
edit post

So it would basically be an electric car, so just make it an electric car for goodness sakes.

Electrolysis is very inefficient; then storage and compression of hydrogen is energy intensive; then we have the transportation and distribution; then we have the weight and inefficiency of hydrogen fuel cells. Ultimately, the process is less efficient than an internal combustion engine, about 20%, with the exception that it burns electricity instead of crude oil.

Meanwhile, a litium ion battery is over 80% energy efficient and you don't need to go to a gas station to refuel, the power company will do it for you at home.

4/18/2007 2:58:27 PM

State409c
Suspended
19558 Posts
user info
edit post

I agree with you 100%. Just wanting to inform the ignorant about Hydrogen creation. Thats all.

4/18/2007 3:13:45 PM

 Message Boards » The Soap Box » Ethanol would produce more ozone than gasoline? Page [1]  
go to top | |
Admin Options : move topic | lock topic

© 2024 by The Wolf Web - All Rights Reserved.
The material located at this site is not endorsed, sponsored or provided by or on behalf of North Carolina State University.
Powered by CrazyWeb v2.39 - our disclaimer.