ok?

just want to make sure people realize that. i think alot of idiots give him credit for Lowe, which is ridiculous. he is still basically the worst d-1 ad ever. a d-1 AD w/ a d-II mindset.

4/23/2007 11:10:02 PM

Lowe was a last resort, and O'Brien contacted us

4/23/2007 11:11:20 PM

so what makes fowler a bad AD?

4/23/2007 11:18:14 PM

eh...

Sidney Lowe turned out to be a great hire.


I mean he did go after Rick Barnes who became exposed as a bad coach this year... but that was due to booster pressure as much as anything else.


I'm not a huge Fowler fan or anything but with the way basketball worked out I'm pretty satisfied at the moment.

He also got rid of Chuck at the right moment before our program was set back to square one. Now we at least still have some building blocks.

4/23/2007 11:18:15 PM

^^^ and besides, it is also dumb to call o'brien a good hire before we have seen one of his teams take even 1 real game snap



^lowe was like fowler's fifth choice. you are like that bacardi commercial where the guys guess like 15 names and when they get the right one the girl is still impressed. nc state was basically the laughing stock of the country b/c of the flummoxed search

^^amato, sendek, volleyball, etc.

[Edited on April 23, 2007 at 11:20 PM. Reason : ^^^]

4/23/2007 11:18:21 PM

The bottom line is we ended with a great hire.


The situation wasn't as cut & dry as "we couldn't get anyone to come".

It's a complicated process when people have large buyouts (Kruger), large buyouts and Kevin Durant (Barnes), and a school with no academic policies or morals to interfere with recruiting (Calipari)

When UNC got their 6th choice a few years ago they ended up with a totalitarian coach that ran their program into the ground.

We ended up with a passionate, solid XO's guy that has revitalized the program.

4/23/2007 11:25:32 PM

with sendek and amato you have to give them chances to win and if they start losing you dont fire them right away...you let them try and correct their problems...we let them both go at the right time...and as for volleyball you cant change a shitty program in one night. look at all the other sports that have done well since hes been here and all the facilities he has helped get here...

4/23/2007 11:28:27 PM

in reality, its still going to be a couple years when we find out more about Lowe/O' Brien to truly determine whether or not they were good hires.

4/23/2007 11:32:13 PM

^^^ and none of that means Fowler did a good job. He got lucky that his fall back choice was so good.

By his own admission, Fowler tried everything to keep Herb here. If it werent for Tommy Burleson, who called Herb out publicly, and some good parents' kids making fun of his kids, he might still be here.

I don't think Fowler has shown a single ounce of ability to set a big goal and work in a non-random way to achieve it. And his judgment is more than questionable.

[Edited on April 23, 2007 at 11:37 PM. Reason : sdf]

4/23/2007 11:32:59 PM

^^^ we didn't let sendek go, he hit the road. not that i'm complaining, but the guy didn't get fired.

[Edited on April 23, 2007 at 11:34 PM. Reason : ^]

4/23/2007 11:33:47 PM

I mean I agree we got a little bit lucky with the Sendek situation.

Fowler adamantly sided with Sendek.

That's why it was so important that Wolfpack Supporters never lost hope and pressured him into leaving.

Ultimately, he made a good hire though and sometimes the whole thing is little more than a crapshoot.


My main problem with Fowler is that he is too apt to "stay the course" when no progress is being made. That's a GW Bush fallacy and that type of thing shouldn't be tolerated.

Don't get me wrong I wouldnt lose an ounce of sleep if he left tomorrow, but I'm not going to call for his head after he makes what appears to be two solid hires in one calendar year.

4/23/2007 11:39:05 PM

Quote :

"and some good parents' kids making fun of his kids, he might still be here."

haha. god bless those kids. i love les robinson's quote where his granddaughter (who went to school w/ herb's daughter) told him that she felt bad for her b/c all the kids in school were mean to her, and les told his granddaughter something along the lines of 'you should be glad you weren't in school when i was the coach there'

4/24/2007 12:01:29 AM

Quote :

"That's why it was so important that Wolfpack Supporters never lost hope and pressured him into leaving."

Yeah for our fans running off coaches!!!

4/24/2007 12:09:04 AM

i think fowler is a solid AD and think he is doing a fine job.

he has us in a great position now with both football and basketball. i don't have a problem with the way he stuck by sendek and amato as long as he did. stability goes a long way in having a successful program. just look at the pittsburgh steelers. many people wanted cowher fired long ago. the rooney's stuck with him because they felt like he could lead them to a championship and they were right.

i think that to an extent fowler understands that concept. and regardless of how the events went down, we ended up with 2 great coaches i think, and there's no guarantee that we could say that now if fowler had been fired and we had a different AD doing those searches.

4/24/2007 12:10:25 AM

Quote :

"Yeah for our fans running off underperforming coaches!!!"

fixed that one.

yeah for herb threads!

4/24/2007 12:15:49 AM

^^Let me guess -- you invest your money in CDs and savings bonds?

^^^Ahh, the girly-man who is more concerned about what other people think rather than the actual welfare of the program. All the shit that outsiders talked won't mean dick when Lowe is eclipsing what Sendek did in a shorter amount of time.

[Edited on April 24, 2007 at 12:16 AM. Reason : asdfa]

4/24/2007 12:16:07 AM

Quote :

"All the shit that outsiders talked won't mean dick when Lowe is eclipsing what Sendek did in a shorter amount of time."

God I still hate you Herb haters so much. Lowe has Ishua Benjamin and Jeremy Hyatt for his star players doesn't he? He doesn't have top 100 recruits and McDonalds' All-Americans or nothing. Yeah Herb started with tons of NBA stars in the making.

4/24/2007 12:19:06 AM

We can go just on Herb's last five years if you want, pussy. You seem to think that the sweet 16 or 2nd in the acc regular season in some sort of incredible feat.

4/24/2007 12:22:12 AM

Quote :

"You seem to think that the sweet 16 or 2nd in the acc regular season in some sort of incredible feat."

the downfall of all herb-lovers.

v lol, they'll never stop.

[Edited on April 24, 2007 at 12:25 AM. Reason : seriously, never.]

4/24/2007 12:25:21 AM

And all this time I thought we were done with Herb threads

4/24/2007 12:25:33 AM

Sindey Lowe is what we HAD to take when everyone else turned us down.....

4/24/2007 12:26:36 AM

but i think most people are extremely happy with sidney.

how can you be so sure that another AD would have consulted with sidney throughout the search, and ultimately have decided to hire him when it came down to that? there's no guarantees that we'd end up with him, and i don't think there's any other coach i'd rather have at this point.

4/24/2007 12:32:52 AM

shut it rwoody

4/24/2007 12:39:24 AM

^^ you realize that alums with coaching experience ALWAYS are on the list for ANY coaching search at ANY school, right? How do you think Chapel Hill got Doherty? No matter who was AD, Lowe would be one of the last guys on the list.

In hindsight, Lowe seems like a good hire. But you cannot say with a straight face that anyone would have been mourning Lowe if Fowler had hired someone else.

[Edited on April 24, 2007 at 12:52 AM. Reason : zas]

4/24/2007 12:52:02 AM

Lowe made Fowler look like a genius at the end of the season. Hope it continues.


He lucked into that one.


The O'Brien hire was just plain nice though. I dont care as much about recruiting anymore cause I know we got a guy who can coach.

4/24/2007 1:02:00 AM

ADs should do one of two things with their coaches 1) support them or 2) fire them. While I do believe he has a bit too much of the "stay the course" mindset (look how long he stuck with some crappy nonrevenue sports coaches), that isn't close to his biggest weakness.

I have never seen an AD embarrass his university by habitually and willfully demeaning the alumni, students, and fan base in a public way. He is a walking PR nightmare, and PR is about the biggest single responsibility of an AD. This has a negative impact on recruiting players and coaches.

4/24/2007 4:21:06 AM

^exactly.


They say that a coach who coaches by listening to the fans will find himself in the stands....



but an AD who DOESN'T listen to the fans needs to find himself in a van down by the river.

[Edited on April 24, 2007 at 6:29 AM. Reason : and I am tired of seeing Fowler embarass my school.]

4/24/2007 6:29:16 AM

Quote :

"PR nightmare, and PR is about the biggest single responsibility of an AD. This has a negative impact on recruiting players and coaches."

couldn't agree more, I am sick of seeing Fowler acting afool and consistantly putting his foot in his mouth. I was pissed to see him sporting the red jacket at the NIT game....

little fucker prob. jinxed us!

4/24/2007 8:23:43 AM

hey, our softball program has only been around four years and it just swept No. 22 Carolina over the weekend on its way to a top-20 ranking

i mean, i suppose fowler had something to do with the hiring of coach navas, anyways

4/24/2007 8:41:38 AM

The only time I was angry with Fowler was during the basketball coaching search when it seemed like everyone other than my mother was an option for being our coach. But that turned out well in the end.

He made a good decision in the timing of firing Chuck, but we'll see how TOB works out.

4/24/2007 11:12:28 AM

what are the day to day activities of an AD? other than finding coaches when they leave or get fired

4/24/2007 11:18:38 AM

We have hired two (at the very least) good revenue sport coaches, great facilities, and have contended for ACC titles in Baseball, Basketball, W. Basketball, Cross Country and won one with our fledgling Softball team, all in the past year. I have no problem with Lee Fowler

4/24/2007 11:43:06 AM

Okay, i'm going to try to do this as non-bias as possible, Lee has been AD since 2000 so lets take a look at each of the programs since he has been here and also any other sports buildings (fyi- the AD does get credit for the new building as that is one of his job responsibilities is the care and upgrade of faculties):

Football - Chuck Amato was an early success thx to guy named Rivers, culminating in an Gator Bowl Win and tons of highly ranked recruits and draft picks but was on a downward spiral for the past 3 years since Rivers left and showed a complete lack of being able to keep assistant coaches. New coach that was hired that has a proven record of being consistently good but not great, however with NC State resources, only time will tell what happens grade: B- Rivers years, all those 1st round picks, and bowl wins, plus the basic rebuilding and extension of Carter Finely and O'Brien hire offset the last 3 year of Chuck

Basketball Herb was here before Fowler and RBC Center had been in the works for years so the rebuilding of the program and faculties is not something that can be given directly to Fowler. Focusing on years that Fowler was AD, the men's Basketball team had a record 5 straight NCAA tournament appearances, Sweet Sixteen finish and annual high ranking in the ACC. However, some or many wolfpack fans felt that school was underachieving due to early NCAA tournament outs, and a dismal record of not beating NC State rivials. This resulted in Sendek leaving for ASU and a botched coaching search that was torn apart by the media. NC State ending up hiring a former NCSU point guard and NBA coach by the name of Lowe who came in lead to NC State defeat of both UNC and Duke and ACC tournament run, and a 3rd round NIT exit. Lowe has already recruited highly touted players and great promise for the future. On the Women's Side, that is Kate Yow program and all success and failure are of her own making and as they are still in Reynolds ( not saying its a bad thing) there are no faculties credit to be given. grade: B [i] steadfast support of Herb who rebuilt the men' program in the face of some wolfpack supporters especially when said coach was still winning games was key and when Herb left on his own accord, listen to fan base and did not seek to keep coach. The coaching search was a colossal nightmare, with school being turned down repeatedly publicly, yet a little luck (and I say divine intervention) led to hire of the Red Sports Jacket and gave NC State fans hope to further build and surpass the foundation that Herb left ( Got to be real, to get better then we were under Herb was a long shot, especially with a then no-name coach, and yet you will be hard to nowadays find a person who doesn't think we won't)

Baseball and Softball Avent was hired before Fowler so he doesn't get credit for him. Lisa Navas was a direct result of Fowler hire and in a short number of years has taken a nonexistent program and transformed into high ranking sports, with a ACC championship last year. Fowler oversaw the renovations on the Doak Field baseball complex and the Deer Park Complex which will include a new state of the art softball field. [i] grade: A Seriously, how long has our softball program been around and we are already winning ACC championship and getting a brand new field for them ON CAMPUS. Plus you can't tell me the Baseball team hasn't benefited from the upgrade in faculties.

Cross Country & Track & Field Rollie Geiger been around since 1982, like Yow that is his program and everything really falls on him. Put the track team is getting a new track and field at Deer Park grade : B no coach credit but finally rolling the ball on a new track gives Fowler a boost

Golf A 18-hole golf course on the Centennial campus has been on adjenda for a while and if it gets built, he will get credit because it been in plans for years but haven't actually been built yet but if it doesn't, it will be because his department finally made it happen, but until then no credit. Woman's coach (Page Marsh (1997) ) was around before him, Men's coach ( Richard Sykes) was hired in '01. Has kinda been an lower ACC school for the past couple of years with a some highlights. Program still needs lots of work, grade: C [i/] program still needs work

Tennis upgrade in faculties and coaching hires show a program on the rise [i] grade: B+ [/b] our tennis teams are def on the rise.

Swimming & Diving desperately need an upgrade in faculties but that hasn't stopped Teal ( 2001) from putting together good teams [i] grade: B- faculties bring down any grade that was overshadowed by coaching success

Wrestling - two ACC championships since hired in 2004, but faculties leave to be desired grade: B ACC championships are always nice, especially when you been a head coach for slightly over 3 year ni

Soccer coaches around before fowler, but they are getting a very nice and needed upgrade in faculties [ i] grade: B [/i] Faculties upgrade and on campus at that boost this up tons since Fowler gets no credit for the coaches

Volleyball what haven't already been said about our volleyball program, i mean seriously grade: F seriously, in terms of volleyball, he has failed miserably

Overall grade: B- We are not a top tier overall sports program yet but we are working on it slowly, some programs are on the rise and have nice faculties while other still have alot of wok to do. I didn't factor student/fanbase interaction because that is impossible to calculate un-bias, i just looked at the success of each program since Fowler has been here and what he actually did to help.

I don't know enough about the rifle, dance and cheerleading squads to factor them in and yes, towards the end I got kinda lazy in typing, we do have 24 varsity teams.

[Edited on April 24, 2007 at 2:17 PM. Reason : fixing typeface]

[Edited on April 24, 2007 at 2:26 PM. Reason : was Gator bowl, not Orange bowl Sorry]

4/24/2007 2:14:16 PM

Quote :

" Football - Chuck Amato was an early success thx to guy named Rivers, culminating in an Orange Bowl win"

Stopped reading you post right there.. Try again.

4/24/2007 2:19:24 PM

Quote :

"Men's coach ( Richard Sykes) was hired in '01."

The 47 year old golf pro at my home course was going to come play for Sykes before he found out he was a dickhole and declined the offer. Sykes has been here for over 30 years.

[Edited on April 24, 2007 at 2:28 PM. Reason : ]

4/24/2007 2:27:19 PM

^^^ It was a Gator bowl victory instead of Orange.

Overall I'd give Fowler a B+ for what he's done in the non revenue sports and a C for the revenue sports.

[Edited on April 24, 2007 at 2:28 PM. Reason : :]

4/24/2007 2:28:01 PM

it was a nice try. i like your blurb on coach jordan (wrestling, since you don't seem to know his name). it just kindof ends mid sentence.

4/24/2007 2:28:54 PM

oh, i knew his name, i knew all the coaches names i just got lazy towards the end and missed tons of things in my proof read and figured there was no point in trying to go back and edit all of them, I'm not going to even lie. It has tons of mistakes, I know but hey, whatever, it was a start.

[Edited on April 24, 2007 at 2:36 PM. Reason : .]

4/24/2007 2:35:54 PM

how 'bout you just dont post shit if you dont know what you're talking about

4/24/2007 2:57:16 PM

he still sucks and knows nothing about negotiating.

Hopefully Tom O'Brien will work out

4/24/2007 3:16:05 PM

As stated earlier, he insults the alumni, students, and financial supporters of the University and its athletic programs. He flat out lied to one of my classes last year about student ticket availability.

I hope every coach he hires wins a National Championship to help make him look good, but it was absolutely unacceptable for an AD, who did not graduate from this school, to humiliate the fanbase and school like he has done.

4/24/2007 3:52:36 PM

Quote :

"Chuck Amato was an early success thx to guy named Rivers, culminating in an Gator Bowl Win and tons of highly ranked recruits and draft picks but was on a downward spiral for the past 3 years since Rivers left and showed a complete lack of being able to keep assistant coaches. New coach that was hired that has a proven record of being consistently good but not great, however with NC State resources, only time will tell what happens grade: B- Rivers years, all those 1st round picks, and bowl wins, plus the basic rebuilding and extension of Carter Finely and O'Brien hire offset the last 3 year of Chuck"

didnt Les hire Chuck??

4/24/2007 7:25:48 PM

dont remember....but I do remember that Mary Ann Fox was the one that fired MOC. If she was still here CTC would have been fired after 2004.

4/24/2007 7:28:31 PM

makes you wish oblinger cared enough to fire a football coach.

4/24/2007 7:39:53 PM

...like you up,chews them, then SPITS THEM OUT!

4/24/2007 7:43:37 PM

Our athletics dept. was in shambles only a few years ago (Les years). The emphasis was on cleaning up our image and graduating players. The performance trend in most sports is positive since then.

With all the facility and coaching upgrades over the past couple years I think things will continue to improve. Over the next decade, I think our athletics will be among the best in the ACC.

Although I would like nothing better than to have an alumnus as the AD, I think Fowler is managing things well.

4/24/2007 10:28:32 PM

^haha, that post is basically pure wrong

maybe the focus was on graduation and a clean program when les was a COACH. since sendek and amato have been here, the focus has been winning.

4/24/2007 10:34:18 PM

Les was AD before Fowler dumbass. And we sucked in every sport. We're much better across the board now. If you can't see that, then you're an idiot.

I'm not saying Folwer is great or anything. But you guys forget how pathetic we were 10 years ago....in every sport.

4/24/2007 10:48:23 PM

our sports program as a whole is ranked 9th in the nation, so hes not doing that bad

4/24/2007 10:49:53 PM

les robinson hired sendek, who turned basketball around

and hired chuck amato, who turned fball around

Quote :

"Les was AD before Fowler dumbass."

that is why i said when les was a COACH, learn to read

[Edited on April 25, 2007 at 7:35 AM. Reason : a]

4/25/2007 7:34:35 AM