http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/1365854/

discuss.

4/29/2007 10:40:50 AM

Quote :

"nine face expulsion"

haha oh shit...there are going to be 18 very pissed off parents who just wasted $$$$$$ on tuition

4/29/2007 10:49:02 AM

you'd think people that are grad students at duke would be smart enough to either not cheat or not get caught.

[Edited on April 29, 2007 at 10:59 AM. Reason : though i mean, come on graduate take home test?]

4/29/2007 10:58:21 AM

everyone cheats to get ahead

the trick is to not get caught

4/29/2007 11:16:27 AM

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=475055

4/29/2007 11:30:33 AM

difference between cutting corners and whatnot and blatantly cheating on an exam though.

id even be willing to overlook some minor colaboration, but obvious copying (or severe collab) is just dumb and shows laziness.

4/29/2007 12:01:46 PM

Reinforces the the notion that MBA students are the biggest cheaters

Quote :

"Just as in their profession, business students often do anything to get ahead — even in the classroom. A recent study by the Center for Academic Integrity (CAI) at Duke University found that MBA students are the biggest cheats in academia. The study, which distributed 5300 surveys at 54 colleges and universities including Carnegie Mellon, revealed that 56 percent of students in MBA program admit to cheating."

http://www.thetartan.org/2006/10/2/news/business_cheat

4/29/2007 12:03:59 PM

Not a big suprise considering the MBA program is generally filled with the people who either

a) weren't smart/skilled enough to make it as a professional (law, engineer, medical, computers)

or

b) weren't good enough as a professional to advance

or

c) think getting an MBA will get them out of the shit mid level position they've been stuck in for years.

4/29/2007 12:13:56 PM

Quote :

"Hemmerich said a red flag was raised after a professor noticed unusual consistencies in the answers of a take-home exam that was not meant for collaboration among students."

That is BS because I know many people who take-home tests and help each other out even thoug it should be individual.

I mean, when you give a take home, do you honestly think a student would leave a question blank if he/she couldn't figure what the answer was?

4/29/2007 12:33:33 PM

Quote :

"Not a big suprise considering the MBA program is generally filled with the people who either a) weren't smart/skilled enough to make it as a professional (law, engineer, medical, computers) or b) weren't good enough as a professional to advance or c) think getting an MBA will get them out of the shit mid level position they've been stuck in for years."

our President!

4/29/2007 12:41:08 PM

lol

4/29/2007 12:43:29 PM

Quote :

"a) weren't smart/skilled enough to make it as a professional (law, engineer, medical, computers)"

that is retarted, in engineering companies especially they send engineers back to school to get there MBA or some other buisness training so they can be effective as middle and upper management. Actually while working for Sony Ericsson I knew management who just had the MBA or other business degree and no actual engineering background.

4/29/2007 12:58:13 PM

it's duke. why are peo le surprised?

4/29/2007 1:37:54 PM

right, because this definitely never happens at ncsu.

4/29/2007 2:11:37 PM

because it's duke

4/29/2007 2:11:57 PM

noen, you forgot a couple

d) want to do big-time investment banking (can't get it without an MBA)

or

e) want to become a partner at a consulting firm (after 3-5 years, you have to get an MBA to move up)

or

f) want to change professions (I for one wouldn't be doing marketing effectiveness and forecasting/modeling for a fortune 15 company right now if i hadn't gottan an MBA after leaving the military and having a polisci undergrad degree)

or

g) don't want to wait 20 years to become a brand manager after doing low-level marketing work

or

you get the point (or maybe you're so dense you don't)

4/29/2007 2:33:12 PM

It's a dark day. All my illusions have been shattered.

4/29/2007 2:41:51 PM

1) It was a TAKE HOME exam.

2) It said the test was not "meant" for collaboration but never said anything about it being a guideline for taking a take home exam

3) If this many students were involved chances are that it wasn't made clear that collaboration was not allowed and the professor is being a dick.

I wouldn't be suprised if this gets reversed and the faculty member fired.

4/29/2007 2:54:50 PM

^ or the class was hard and there were a bunch of chummy people in it. we can't necessarily jump to conclusions one way or the other.

4/29/2007 3:21:00 PM

Quote :

"1) It was a TAKE HOME exam. "

^^

Jesus people, do you know what an EXAM is???

4/29/2007 3:32:10 PM

Don't worry, it's just Raige. His cognitive function is somewhere right above a very smart donkey but somewhat less than a monkey.

4/29/2007 3:40:45 PM

Quote :

"If this many students were involved chances are that it wasn't made clear that collaboration was not allowed and the professor is being a dick."

riiiiiiiiiight

4/29/2007 3:42:33 PM

I've never had a take-home exam where collaboration was allowed.

4/29/2007 3:49:50 PM

Quote :

"noen, you forgot a couple d) want to do big-time investment banking (can't get it without an MBA) "

Not true at all. I don't know where you heard that. Goldman Sach's certainly doesn't think so and I don't see how much bigger you can get than that.

Quote :

" e) want to become a partner at a consulting firm (after 3-5 years, you have to get an MBA to move up) "

Again, bullshit. Having worked now with dozens of consulting firms from many different industries, and the number of partner's with professional degrees (Architecture, Engineering, Bio/Chem, Law, etc) vastly outnumber the partner's who have MBA's (who btw almost always already had another post-graduate degree). This MIGHT hold water with megolithic firms, but that's becoming dated business.

Quote :

" f) want to change professions (I for one wouldn't be doing marketing effectiveness and forecasting/modeling for a fortune 15 company right now if i hadn't gottan an MBA after leaving the military and having a polisci undergrad degree) "

This I can agree with, in some regards. It was very fortunate for you, because you had an undergraduate degree with little market skills, and a military experience that I'm guessing didn't fit with what you wanted to do in a civilian career. But even then, it's only worth it if you want to change professions INTO marketing/sales.

Quote :

" g) don't want to wait 20 years to become a brand manager after doing low-level marketing work "

Here's an idea: There are more ways to move up on the food chain than through the rank and file of a big ass corporate giant. Hell, I was in school with a girl who gave up a brand management job at 24 to change careers.

Quote :

" you get the point (or maybe you're so dense you don't)"

Your points are the absolute, typical corporate machine responses. Which is what the overwhelming majority of MBA students I've ever encountered are, sheep in the machine. It's not always a bad thing, I can definitely understand that for a lot of people work is not their life.

But there are so many other ways to get places.

Quote :

"that is retarted, in engineering companies especially they send engineers back to school to get there MBA or some other buisness training so they can be effective as middle and upper management. Actually while working for Sony Ericsson I knew management who just had the MBA or other business degree and no actual engineering background."

Choosing the right engineers, this is absolutely awesome. But often the people who are sent are the ones who WANT to be managers, not the ones who SHOULD be managers.


Just to clarify for the people who are getting their panties in a wad (AKA the ones with MBA's apparently), the trends and studies are with me on this. I'm not saying it's an inherently worthless degree or anything. Hell, I will probably get one at some point, because there is a wealth of knowledge in any reputable business school. But the MAJORITY of the people who are in the non-upper eschelon b-schools are doing it to get a raise/promotion at their current job, or to claw their way up whatever corporate ladder they've landed in.

Business schools are not doing all that well, the ROI for an MBA is not anywhere near what it used to be and many large companies are moving to the internal promotion and training philosophies.

4/29/2007 4:19:31 PM

Quote :

"But the MAJORITY of the people who are in the non-upper eschelon b-schools graduate school are doing it to get a raise/promotion at their current job, or to claw their way up whatever corporate ladder they've landed in."

[Edited on April 29, 2007 at 5:23 PM. Reason : To improve the accuracy of his comment. ]

4/29/2007 5:22:50 PM

you think it's a fact that more people go back to graduate school after graduating and then working than people that go directly after their undergraduate degree? i understand the idea of your comment but i highly doubt the accuracy of it

4/29/2007 5:28:32 PM

I suppose there are always those people who can't get a job.

4/29/2007 5:39:08 PM

very, very relevant to this discussion:

http://www.fedex.com/us/about/unitedstates/advertising/tvads/mbawm.html

4/29/2007 10:25:45 PM

haha a take-home exam? what did the professor really expect?

4/29/2007 10:42:59 PM

haha academic integrity? a quality that no longer exists?

4/29/2007 10:49:22 PM

^^^ Tom clearly isn't a supply chain MBA. Perhaps he went to Duke.

4/29/2007 10:54:57 PM

haha 9/11? what did the US expect?

[]

4/29/2007 11:09:27 PM

I had a NCSU porfessor tell me, and I quote...

Quote :

"Take home tests are full of shit. If a test is given anywhere but the classrom, it has zero integrity (SP, o know), so go work with each other."

4/29/2007 11:25:20 PM

usually unless the professor says so, assignment are considered to be graded on the basis of one's individual work. it's bee nthat way since, what, middle school? They got what they deserved, but I'll admit that some of it was pretty harsh.

4/30/2007 12:10:05 AM

If you get that far into school, and you haven't figured out ^, then maybe you need to be kicked out.

4/30/2007 12:18:59 AM

The problem is that these professors make it too easy to cheat. A take home test? In graduate school. Give me a break. I would bet that ~50% cheating reflects all of academia, whether individuals admit it or not. The biggest problem, especially in undergraduate, is cheating is so blatant and it is so easy not to get caught. Fellow students notice, and competition being what it is, feel like if someone else is getting an advantage they should as well. Crazy schemes will always be thought up by desperate students, but professors could cut down on cheating by tailoring evaluation accordingly.

4/30/2007 12:32:12 AM

[Edited on April 30, 2007 at 1:16 AM. Reason : nm]

4/30/2007 12:50:40 AM

^^The problem is that kids have absolutely no fucking integrity. None. This website is pretty clear evidence of that.

It never even crossed my mind to cheat while I was in school. Partially because most of the kids in my classes were morons, partially because my friends and I had fun trying to beat each other out, but mostly because I paid for my education.

4/30/2007 10:03:04 AM

Not that I condone what these guys did, but could this be indicative of the sorts of pressures that college students today are under? I dunno, it seems to me that on the one hand everybody likes to talk about virtues such as integrity and hard work, but on the other hand people are also told to do whatever it takes to get ahead. Because really, what pays off quicker? Doing all of the work or cutting corners wherever you can?

4/30/2007 10:22:56 AM

I don't know if this was said already or not... but IT WAS A TAKE HOME EXAM!!!

4/30/2007 10:27:06 AM

The problem with take home exams is the frats and the jocks lose any advantage they had.

4/30/2007 10:31:13 AM

Quote :

"I've never had a take-home exam where collaboration was allowed."

I have one in front of me - [class #] Final

Granted, this one is given by a teacher with a great sense of humor, is lax in some areas, and isn't someone you'd consider a hardass, but...up at the top it says You may do the quiz on an individual or group of two basis. Dunno why they call the exams 'quizzes' over here at textiles so often, but they do.

He even acknowledged there will be folks who partner up, and one does all the work, and the other does nothing. He said he doesn't wanna hear whining about that happening, because the two pairing up know what's going to happen going in, and the pairings are voluntary.

Easy test? Absolutely. Final exam? Yes. Take home? Yes. Collaboration? Allowed.

Not saying this is the norm, but I'm just pointing out that they do exist, even if they oughtn't.

4/30/2007 10:31:38 AM

A take-home exam wouldn't be out of the ordinary if this was an online class. Just saying.

Duke ain't got anything on where I did my master's degree. Google "Ohio University and Cheating" sometime if you want to see how the professionals do it. Multiple professors, grad students, undergrad, and others involved in the Engineering Program. That place was a zoo.

4/30/2007 1:31:10 PM

The lacrosse players were never found guilty. Their names were reported in the news.

The cheaters have already been found guilty. Their names aren't reported in the news.

That's some fucked up shit right there.

4/30/2007 2:03:04 PM

in on this thread too

4/30/2007 2:20:14 PM

i saw this in the paper, and had a good laugh (duke student paper)

4/30/2007 3:34:34 PM

I may have left with a 2.7 or 2.8 but at least it's MY 2.7 or 2.8!

5/1/2007 2:00:53 AM

I'm sure the average GPA at Duke is like a 3.8

5/1/2007 9:21:45 AM

5/1/2007 10:42:05 AM

Quote :

"The lacrosse players were never found guilty. Their names were reported in the news. The cheaters have already been found guilty. Their names aren't reported in the news. That's some fucked up shit right there."

yep.

5/1/2007 11:26:54 AM