I don't know what else he has to do to prove his superiority. Kobe has done nothing, Dirk isn't even a factor in their losing series. If you peeps can't see this, you're blind. Go ahead and scream "he shouldn't win it 3 years in a row".

4/29/2007 5:36:26 PM

FACT.

4/29/2007 5:37:18 PM

Im loving this. The MVP voters leave him no choice.

4/29/2007 5:39:41 PM

4/29/2007 5:41:27 PM

He's the 2nd best player on his own team.

4/29/2007 5:58:23 PM

^ no

paging treetwista

4/29/2007 5:59:55 PM

You take Nash out of the Suns and they don't make the playoffs. You take anyone else out, they're still a top playoff team. He is the most VALUABLE player in the league.

4/29/2007 6:11:30 PM

You cant be serious about that.

Amare Stoudamire is probably the premeire big man in the league.

Shawn Marion is an all-star.

Barbosa is a great guard.

Bell is a great role player as a shooter & defender.


Then they have several solid role players like Diaw, Jones, and Thomas


I guess the Dallas Mavericks collapsed after they lost Nash and replaced him with Jason Terry.

4/29/2007 6:22:11 PM

What? You take Nash off the Suns and they don't make the playoffs? HAAAAAhahahahaaaaa ahhhhhhhh haha thats hilarious.

You replace Nash with any point guard in the league in the Suns still make the playoffs.

ahhhh I always know that whenever I need a good laugh I can count on the tards on the Wolf Web to come up with something stupid to say

4/29/2007 6:22:51 PM

Since its a given that Kobe is right about at Michael Jordan's level..

I guess Nash is better than Jordan too!!!!


Nash is the best basketball player ever because he can dump the ball to Stoudamire!!!!


Nash is the best PG in the game, one of the greatest passers of all-time, and is a terrific offensive basketball player.

He's arguably a Hall of Famer even.... but how can you compare an arguable Hall of Famer to a legend like Kobe? This has really gotten out of control....

I know this started as a joke but I think some of you are really starting to talk yourself into this Nash phenomenon.

What's Phoenix playoff record the past three seasons? 22-17? That's borderline underachievement based on the talent they have. Let's wait until they start winning a lot of games/championships before we put Steve Nash ahead of Jordan, alright?


It's fun to see a white guy excel in the NBA, but let's not be blinded by skin color.

This is akin to worshipping James Blake because he's a black man in a predominantly white sport. But no one ventures to say that he's better than Federer or Nadal.



[Edited on April 29, 2007 at 6:31 PM. Reason : a]

4/29/2007 6:29:44 PM

yea...suns are horrible without amare

[Edited on April 29, 2007 at 6:31 PM. Reason : ]

4/29/2007 6:30:55 PM

mvp and best player in the league are not necessarily the same thing. just saying.

4/29/2007 6:37:25 PM

they arent horrible without Amare but it took them 7 games to squeeze past an inferior Lakers team and they barely beat an inferior Clippers team. If Mike Dunleavy didn't collapse completely under pressure last year the Clippers probably take that series with a team that has essentially zero playoff experience.

Then they looked outmatched against Dallas.

You know, the team that let Nash go as an unrestricted free agent because they realized they could replace him with Jason Terry and be just as good.


Let's imagine Kobe was traded straight up for Nash.

The Lakers would struggle mightily to make the playoffs. I don't think they'd have enough scoring to make it, but I won't rule it out completely.


Barbosa, Kobe, Marion, Stoudamire wins the Championship without a doubt. Scooby Doo could be their fifth starter for all I care. I thought I'd reference a fictional character here since most of you guys live in fantasy land.

With Nash on the team they are Championship contenders. Absolutely they CAN win the championship. But they didnt enter the playoffs as the favorites to win because theres questions about whether they can beat Dallas or San Antonio.

I'm astounded you can't see the difference.

[Edited on April 29, 2007 at 6:41 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on April 29, 2007 at 6:43 PM. Reason : a]

4/29/2007 6:38:09 PM

no one said Nash was better than Jordan. No one even said Nash is better than Kobe. I just said Nash is the most VALUABLE player. And the only reason why the guys around him are so good is because Nash makes everyone on that team better.

Remember Quentin Richardson? How is he doing in NY? Didn't he break the NBA mark for made 3's while teammed up with Nash in Phoenix? He's disappeared since.

How about Joe Johnson who took over the SG slot after Richardson left? He shot like almost 50% from 3 point range when he played for Phoenix. I bet his numbers then and his numbers now are pretty similar even though he is now the "go-to" guy in Atlanta. It says alot when his numbers are pretty much the same when he was maybe the third or fourth option on a Nash-led team compared to being "the" guy at Atlanta.

Kobe is the better player no doubt, Nash is just more valuable because he makes everyone around him so much better. Case in point today's game.

4/29/2007 6:44:29 PM

no one (at least not me) is saying nash is better ball player than kobe...ask anyone who knows me, i jock kobe more than anyone...i simply think nash is the mvp

4/29/2007 6:50:53 PM

Q-Rich sucked in the playoffs.

That's why they jettisoned him as fast as possible

Isiah Thomas was the only one dumb enough to trade for him.

Joe Johnson exploded AFTER he left Phoenix

Marion has been putting up the same numbers his whole career.


Nash benefits every bit as much from Amare as vice versa. Amare has the most dunking range in the league. If you drop the ball off to him it's 2 points. He even has a jumper now.


Nash is a great PG. In the end he's still a PG though.

Just because Isiah Thomas could beat the Bulls when his team was loaded, didn't make him a better player (or an MVP) over Jordan.

[Edited on April 29, 2007 at 6:54 PM. Reason : a]

4/29/2007 6:53:16 PM

joe johnson made me a hawks fan

4/29/2007 7:00:18 PM

Quote :

"Nash is a great PG. In the end he's still a PG though."

so what you're saying is a pg can't be an mvp? i don't follow.

4/29/2007 7:11:58 PM

yup...only 2 guards are allowed to be mvp's

4/29/2007 7:13:56 PM

^^ I'm not saying a PG CAN'T be the MVP.

But he has to be a really dominant all-around player like Magic Johnson

Just being John Stockton, Jason Kidd, or Gary Payton historically hasn't been enough.


PG's are easily replaceable. A solid PG and a spectacular SG are always going to be more valuable than a spectacular PG and solid SG.

PG's are essential in college basketball and non-essential in the NBA.

The Phoenix Suns would be one of the best teams of all-time if you switched Kobe out with Nash.

With Nash they're exciting and all...but very beatable. I mean Nash has yet to even make an NBA Finals and he's a 10+ year veteran.

Why can't we just appreciate him for being so fun to watch? I become less and less appreciative of his skills everyday mostly because of the way everyone takes his production out of context.

Let's just end the MVP debate once and for all so I can go back to cheering for the Suns.

4/29/2007 7:25:39 PM

Quote :

"The Phoenix Suns would be one of the best teams of all-time if you switched Kobe out with Nash"

if thats the case then kobe needs to work out a trade, because he's not winning the mvp otherwise

4/29/2007 7:29:58 PM

nash > kobe

if they're playing 1 on 1...i take kobe...if it's 5 on 5...nash hands down.

4/29/2007 7:33:33 PM

You almost had me convinced I was crazy until this last post ^^^

PGs are a valuable and rare commodity. Athletic swingmen are very common. I'm not lumping Kobe in to that class, because he's obviously the best player in the league. One of the all time great shooting guards ever, but Nash is the MVP this year.

Amare isn't as good as Nash and that offensive system makes it seem.

[Edited on April 29, 2007 at 7:36 PM. Reason : d]

4/29/2007 7:35:38 PM

Quote :

"He's the 2nd best player on his own team."

i know i'm a bit late on this...but i can't believe someone would actually argue amare stoudEmire over nash. at this moment, that is certainly not true. stoudemire is an incredible athlete, but he still has a long way to go...and i have little doubt that he'll be a hall of famer, but at the moment, nash is a superior player without a doubt.

4/29/2007 9:57:41 PM

Quote :

"Barbosa is a great guard. Bell is a great role player as a shooter & defender. Then they have several solid role players like Diaw, Jones, and Thomas"

do you just not like white people?

guys like bell and diaw only average more than 5 points a game because of nash, coincedentally I saw nash put sidespin on the ball to squeeze a pass between two defenders so amare could have an easy dunk

I guess any point guard could do that

Quote :

"they arent horrible without Amare but it took them 7 games to squeeze past an inferior Lakers team and they barely beat an inferior Clippers team. If Mike Dunleavy didn't collapse completely under pressure last year the Clippers probably take that series with a team that has essentially zero playoff experience. "

they might get in the playoffs but they wouldn't win a series at all without nash

[Edited on April 29, 2007 at 10:10 PM. Reason : k]

4/29/2007 10:08:20 PM

didnt they have a losing record when nash was out for a bit this year?

4/29/2007 10:14:05 PM

Ralegh-Durham is right fellas

4/29/2007 11:14:44 PM

are you one of those?

4/29/2007 11:18:26 PM

Let's stick with the germane here guys. This is NOT about Kobe. Nash is the MVP and that's the bottom line. He exceeds Kobe and Dirk played himself out of position. There is absolutely no way he should not be granted with this for the third time.

Quote :

"It's fun to see a white guy excel in the NBA, but let's not be blinded by skin color."

Racists statements like this prevents you from forming decent, valid arguments. This is YOUR cop-out, plain and simple. When you run out of weapons and tools, "hey I'll play the racism card". It's really getting [old].

Kobe is a great player, because he can score like no other. Noone is arguing that. But Nash is out performig him. Fact. 20 +pts and 20+ assists....there is just no way around that.

[Edited on April 30, 2007 at 12:43 AM. Reason : /]

4/30/2007 12:37:35 AM

MVP is about the regular season, how has Dirk played himself out of position?

If it was about the postseason Nash would have never won it, considering he hasn't lead a team to the finals.

4/30/2007 12:42:38 AM

Quote :

"if they're playing 1 on 1...i take kobe...if it's 5 on 5...nash hands down."

Best thing said in the thread tonight.

4/30/2007 1:02:41 AM

23 assists

4/30/2007 1:36:28 AM

15 in first half...he wasn't really needed much in the second half

4/30/2007 1:49:29 AM

Its a skewed number and its not hard when every single other player on your team is a great shooter and you're going against the west that doesn't leaves somebody open everytime. Speaking of the west, Delonte could average that many assists under those conditions.

I was never very athletic but played OMF in high school and had a pair all state forwards on my team. Long story short I was getting offers from some smaller schools because of all the assists I piled up.

4/30/2007 2:10:51 AM

Quote :

"I thought I'd reference a fictional character here since most of you guys live in fantasy land. "

lol, that made my day, no need to keep reading

4/30/2007 2:40:44 AM

me?

4/30/2007 6:59:28 AM

NC State is awesome without a good PG

4/30/2007 10:30:09 AM

Everyone wants to talk about Kobe's scoring.....ok let's look at it this way. Let's use a hockey point system.

Kobe had 31 points and 9 assists....that means he caused at least 49 points.

Nash had 17 points and 23 assists....that means he caused at least 63 points.

That is 14 points....the Suns won by 13.

And cathocutie stop posting about sports. Delonte West? Come on.

4/30/2007 1:25:05 PM

no, that's dumb.

Kobe can't rack up assists because his team sucks.

And if you use that method, why not use defense? I bet Kobe's defense prevents a lot more points than Nash's defense.

[Edited on April 30, 2007 at 1:33 PM. Reason : ]

4/30/2007 1:32:39 PM

^Kobe is not a good passer. Even though he handles the ball a lot and his team doesn't have a true point guard, he's never been a distributor. He is always in 'shoot first, pass at the last resort' mode.

*cue rallydurham with some pseudoscientific bullshit about how Kobe's points are worth more than Nash's assists*

Or if the stats don't help his argument, he'll just use his Michael Vick argument style and say that the stats don't matter.



[Edited on April 30, 2007 at 1:43 PM. Reason : 2]

4/30/2007 1:32:54 PM

agreed... Nash leads his team to wins better than Kobe

4/30/2007 1:52:39 PM

Uh, Kobe sets up his teammates all the fucking time. It's not his fault Luke Walton can't hit open jump shots, Kwame Brown bricks point blank layups, and Lamar Odom is the biggest pansy of a power forward in the history of the NBA.

4/30/2007 1:54:02 PM

It's never Kobe's fault.. always his teammates..

4/30/2007 1:55:59 PM

no, when kobe misses a shot it is his own fault.

When one of kobe's teammates misses a shot it is that teammates fault.

Assists are WAY overrated.

4/30/2007 1:58:10 PM

Kobe won three CHAMPIONSHIPS before Nash was even on the fucking radar you dolts.


What has Nash done? NOTHING!


KOBE INVENTED THE PIANO KEY NECK TIE

4/30/2007 2:00:54 PM

I just think its funny how Kobe's teammates are always blamed when his teammates have a higher FG%.

             FG%  3P%  ADJ. FG% 
K. Bryant .463  .344  .502 
L. Odom   .468  .297  .508 
L. Walton .474  .387  .517 
S. Parker .436  .365  .506 
K. Brown  .591  .000  .591 

Oh yeah, and for comparison purposes:

S. Nash   .532 .455  .613 

4/30/2007 2:05:03 PM

Because those guys don't take shots at the same degree of difficulty that Kobe does.

They arent the ones forced to make plays when the shot clock is winding down, they dont take 25 shots a game, and they don't draw double teams or any defensive attention.

Dallas Mavericks wins from 2000-2003 (w/ Nash)

53, 57, 60, 52

Dallas Mavericks wins from 2004-2006 (w/o Nash)

58, 60, 67


Where is the drop off

4/30/2007 2:11:30 PM

Nice try, changing the subject.

Back to Kobe: Yes, he does draw more attention, and yes, he takes much tougher shots. I am not contesting that. I am saying that he doesn't pass as much as he should, and he doesn't set his teammates up despite the fact that they make more of their shots.

He is amazing when he is on, but when his shot is not falling he is pretty worthless on offense except as a decoy. Nash can still keep that offense running at a high level when his shot is not falling.

4/30/2007 2:14:51 PM

^^^yesterday

Walton - 27.3%
Odom - 29%
Brown - 41.7%
Bryant - 38%
Farmar - 0%

Lovely productivity/shooting from the supporting cast

[Edited on April 30, 2007 at 2:16 PM. Reason : ]

4/30/2007 2:16:34 PM

^^ He was changing the subject eh?

Last time I glanced at the subject, it said "One word...Nash"

4/30/2007 2:17:54 PM