Anyone have any experience with this vehicle beyond the general info and what I can find easily googling? Obviously tons of power and lots of potential as far as that goes. How do they handle? Reliability? Costs to upgrade?

Just curious, used to really like them and happened to see one in good shape for sale on the way home.

5/16/2007 5:42:31 PM

Since only a couple people will probably know what a WS6 is, google says:

5/16/2007 6:04:49 PM

im pretty sure most of us know what a ws6 is

5/16/2007 6:23:38 PM

go ahead and grow the mullet and buy a nice single-wide

5/16/2007 6:40:25 PM

i think everyone will know what a WS6 is. if they don't, they're not gonna know the answer to any of those questions, anyway.

I've never driven a WS6, but I've driven a Z28 of that generation with Eibach suspension, and it drove like the U.S.S. F-body. The WS6 would only be worse. If it's a big concern, you're looking at the wrong car. That machine is about cheap straight line speed.

[Edited on May 16, 2007 at 6:42 PM. Reason : asdf]

5/16/2007 6:41:47 PM

Quote :

"go ahead and grow the mullet and buy a nice single-wide"

Its an 02, not a 92, so he can probably swing the double wide.

5/16/2007 6:57:16 PM

Quote :

"That machine is about cheap straight line speed."

5/16/2007 6:57:48 PM

sumfoo is right on this one.. It's a nice car to go fast in a straight fine and relatively easy/cheap to upgrade. You're better off reading some camaro forums (same thing basically) if you want to get an idea on cost. The drivetrain is very solid on them (the auto transmission isn't the best but if it's a m6 then it's great) so nothing major to worry about there usually.

5/16/2007 7:02:00 PM

Yea kinda figured about the straight line performance. Never figured to be able to use it for an autocross or anything. I guess ill go for the double wide

Someone mentioned the drivetrain holds up decently. This ones got about 75K on it, how long do they usually make it?

5/16/2007 7:27:01 PM

Everyone here hates on fbodys' handling, but they actually do quite well on a road course with just a few suspension parts. Autocross is usually too tight.
Looks for a 6 speed. Hard to say "how long they make it", but overall they are fairly reliable.

5/16/2007 8:49:29 PM

the reason i ask is if i were to get the t/a it would be a daily driver and it would suck to have it toast out on me at 100k. but i guess worst comes to worst i could always rebuild the engine

5/16/2007 9:09:24 PM

^^yep. with a few suspension mods, they're on par with a stock c5 i'd say in terms of getting around a road course/twisty two lane. some of the inherent drawbacks of a solid axle are always going to be there, but for their size/weight they do well.

straight line acceleration has already been addressed. nothing special in stock trim, but the LSx motors respond freakishly well to even basic bolt ons. you can easily have a deep 12 sec. car for ~2k in parts. aftermarket stuff is priced nice and everyone and their mother makes things for them.

the motor/trans is solid, but the 10 bolt rear is a big liability with any amount of traction, even with stock power levels.

your biggest issue is going to be with build quality type stuff. expect interior stuff to break and wear fast, minor electrical issues, etc.

[Edited on May 16, 2007 at 9:12 PM. Reason : .]

5/16/2007 9:10:58 PM

yeah i'm not saying it can't handle i'm just saying thats not the car you buy to make it handle well.
the seating position is all wrong for any sort of road course / autox type of driving.

to be honest if you tighten up any suspension balance it right and put big enough tires on it it'll turn aight.

i plan on building an old car and "making it handle well" but it'll either be a charger, mustang or thunderbolt clone all if which handling well will definitely be a relative term.

5/16/2007 9:34:40 PM

^ thats good to hear as far as the handling characteristics. for my taste it doesnt need to handle like a god just respectably. as far as straight line you cant beat that big smile you get on your face when a big v8 pins you to the seat and all you hear are the flows roaring.

the forums ive looked at would agree with your statement on the rear end. apparently thats the weak link. not unfixable though

the build quality thing will piss me off. but as long as i replace things as the break and they dont build up it wont bother me too much.

one weird thing i noticed that the dealer did not is the previous owner put a traction control button on the left side of the center console, obviously aftermark, and obviously very very poor craftsmanship, didnt even try to hide it. did these cars not come with any kind of traction control? anyone know if this is a common mod for this car? im going to check the t/a forums as well.

[Edited on May 16, 2007 at 9:41 PM. Reason : ...]

5/16/2007 9:40:30 PM

^^ hope you arent gonna build a first gen mustang g machine, cause the seating position on those is all wrong

5/16/2007 9:54:27 PM

seating position is a personal preference thing. visibility wasn't great, but the actual wheel/pedals/shifter position in my f-body suited me great.

traction control was a factory option. it was probably standard on the ws6. are you sure it's not a factory button/switch? or maybe the factory one failed and something else was rigged on it.

[Edited on May 16, 2007 at 11:59 PM. Reason : .]

5/16/2007 11:53:34 PM

yeah i love the way those sit. hell i have seats from a 4th gen trans am in my olds.

5/16/2007 11:58:55 PM

Quote :

"when a big v8 pins you to the seat and all you hear are the flows roaring"

5/17/2007 12:14:09 AM

i have a 98 trans am with around 91k miles on it and it is running strong. i put LT headers on it, an off road y, magnaflow exhaust, some subframe connectors, and a pro 5.0 shifter and i love it. i had it dyno tuned and i put down 335 hp 345 tq. considering i didnt spend more than 1k on performance parts id say that did really well. the 02 would have the ls6 intake on it and that would give you some more hp. check out ls1tech.com they are the best site you will find for an fbody.

people rag on the fbody for its handling but a few suspension mods and it will feel like a totally different car (although stock isnt really that bad). plus the overall straightline speed makes up for it in the end.

cant go wrong with an ls1

5/17/2007 2:03:40 AM

BigBlueRam the traction control placement on this one is weird. Looks like a stock button but the cut off a piece of trim from another car. Mounted it to the side of the center console and then mounted the TC switch to that.

Was it an option on the WS6 and not the formula or something? Maybe its not truely a WS6 and this guy was trying to just add on the differences himself. Dont know, just guessing.

5/17/2007 6:16:09 AM

Quote :

"hope you arent gonna build a first gen mustang g machine, cause the seating position on those is all wrong "

You're right it is.
i sorta forgot that... i don't like sitting with my ass 4" off the floor.

5/17/2007 7:06:17 AM

Quote :

"Anyone have any experience with this vehicle beyond the general info and what I can find easily googling? Obviously tons of power and lots of potential as far as that goes. How do they handle? Reliability? Costs to upgrade? Just curious, used to really like them and happened to see one in good shape for sale on the way home."

Very reliable and durable engines. I've known people making well over 400rwhp and running 11s on stock high mileage (100k+) shortblocks with simple heads and cam upgrades.

Beyond that, the cars are ok. I've owned a 1997 Z28 for several years now and very little went wrong or broke on it. The cruise control went out after I did a heads/cam swap (probably my fault and not the car's), and I've had to put one alternator on it. Some of the backlighting on the radio/instrument panel went out last year, but I almost expect that on any 9 year old car. The T-tops will leak a bit if you don't cinch them down perfectly and tightly.

Handling? Very predictable at almost all speeds with plenty of adhesion and decent feedback IMO. Stock brakes will fade when you stop or slow quickly several times in a row from triple digit speeds. No, it isn't a damn Miata or 325i, so it isn't particularly suitable for satisfying the cones-in-a-parking-lot definition of handling measure most people on here use. Tons of suspension bits can be had for this car, and you can essentially have a car that goes and handles like a Corvette on an open track for a whole lot less cash.

Overall I'd say that having one of these cars is rather enjoyable and you won't regret buying one if you find a deal on it.

5/17/2007 2:44:15 PM

Just an update. Dealer called me today and said he sold it right after I left! lol Hes also got a 2000 WS6 really looks like its in better shape, slightly less miles, and cheaper, but heres the kicker, its got a Procharger running 5psi of boost.

Ive always made the rule of never buying a car someone has already been fucking with, but this ones got me thinking about it. Problem is you never know what your getting into. The dealer cant tell me a damn thing about whats been done to it, cam, heads, tuning, who knows. Anyone know if this upgrade is common on the t/a's?

Im trying to call around to find a local pro to have a look at it as well as checking the LS1 forums.

5/17/2007 4:44:11 PM

5 psi @ peak rpm= hardly worth the effort.

5/17/2007 4:53:33 PM

^dont know, may just have a smaller pulley on it.

wouldnt want more than 8 or 9 on most cars anyway.

5/17/2007 5:01:24 PM

^ sally. depends on the car. my Evo blows like 19+ stock. my Miata made about 17 psi.

my S2000 made about 5.5-6 psi.

^^ and on that note, sometimes 5-6 psi can make a helluva difference (like, if you're already squeezing 11.5:1 CR, haha).

5/17/2007 5:19:06 PM

^^^yeah, since psi is all that matters. of course cfm has nothing to do with it.

i don't think i'd call and extra ~75hp or so "hardly worth the effort". you've got room to grow with that setup too, procharger makes a nice kit.

sc =/ turbo.

[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 5:21 PM. Reason : .]

5/17/2007 5:20:57 PM

that too

5/17/2007 5:22:16 PM

^ my old STi ran 15psi as well but generally on the larger compression engines you want less boost.

anyway just talked to a guy that runs a dyno near here and he just said the tune is the key. if its got the s/c the injectors, fuel pump, cam, and tune have all been updated.

he said if i brought i by he could check it out and pull up the tune. but he did make it sound like this combo can be very tempermental. not exactly daily driver material.

5/17/2007 5:28:24 PM

whoever you talked to doesn't know wtf they're talking about. except that a good tune is key, which goes for any damn thing.

5/17/2007 5:34:06 PM

^whys that? seems reasonable to me. know something different? or are you talking about the tempermental comment?

[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 5:35 PM. Reason : ...]

5/17/2007 5:34:59 PM

^^^^^ hell, not even all SCs are created equal. a Roots blower is generally shit hot on a big domestic V8, but would've been basically useless on something like my S2000 (with stock internals), because it would've built too much boost down low and caused wicked detonation.


^that, and just because it has a little bolt on SC making 5psi, it in no way necessarily has any upgraded fuel system components, much less a different cam, etc.

[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 5:37 PM. Reason : asfasdf]

5/17/2007 5:36:44 PM

read some corner-carvers.com for some American iron + road course tech. It can certainly be done.

5/17/2007 5:38:32 PM

Quote :

"that, and just because it has a little bolt on SC making 5psi, it in no way necessarily has any upgraded fuel system components, much less a different cam, etc."

bingo.

^the point isn't so much that it can be done... hell, ANYTHING can be built enough to do well. it's that f-bodys lend themselved well to fairly minor/cheap suspension upgrades and will get around a track great.

[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 5:41 PM. Reason : ,]

5/17/2007 5:39:00 PM

^^ oh, they can generate a shit ton of lateral grip. no doubt. they're never gonna handle like a sports car, though. they're great in a straight line, and can be made to grudgingly perform pretty well around a road course (although they're not gonna have a sports car's agile, surgical feel).

the one I drove (which even had eibach springs and some kind of stiffer shocks...don't know about sway bars or anything) felt like a battleship.


actually, i think i've driven Drake's Z28, too. i don't know if anything has been done to it suspension wise, but it's a battleship, too. i mean, i'd like to own it, but don't kid yourself. it isn't a sports car, and you will never convince it otherwise.

[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 5:46 PM. Reason : asdfasf]

5/17/2007 5:42:34 PM

gotcha, i guess ill just have to wait and see.

to buy something like this i guess i would have to own up to the possibility of having to rebuild the engine in the near future in the worst case.

5/17/2007 5:43:26 PM

bbr... don't be a jackass you know as well as i do on a stock engine you can figure out hp from a boost pressure pretty easy.

And my statement holds true even if it is a built motor cause 6 psi isn't going to cram much more air into the motor than it would suck in on its own THAT is my point.

I know full well you can put an f-4 on a big block with the smallest pulley you can fit on it and only push 2lbs of boost.... and the motor would make almost the same amount of hp w/o the blower as it does with it.

5/17/2007 5:46:00 PM

i'm not being a jackass, facts are facts. what you're saying is just dead wrong, simply put. you can't judge a power adder based on psi numbers alone.

speculate and hypothesize all you want to, but the fact remains good gains are made from prochargers with low boost on stock motors. hell, they even make a 4psi pulley for 98-02 f-body kits.

i see the point you're trying to make, but it doesn't apply here.

[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 6:02 PM. Reason : .]

5/17/2007 6:00:23 PM

Quote :

"to buy something like this i guess i would have to own up to the possibility of having to rebuild the engine in the near future in the worst case."

You seem to be ruling out catastrophic failure. When I think rebuild I imagine freshening up a low compression engine that spits out a little smoke. Suck a valve into the combustion chamber or throw a rod through the block and you're in for a little more punishment.

Not that I'd be that concerned with one of these motors, but forced induction and unknown tuning certainly makes it more possible.

[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 6:07 PM. Reason : s]

5/17/2007 6:06:40 PM

^true

im not as worried about that though, the first order of business after purchase would be to have the tune updated.

5/17/2007 6:09:49 PM

Dude.... you're acting like there could be one of a billion prochargers on there..
i'm making the assumptions that its a p1sc and the motor probably has exhaust on it too.
other than that i'm assuming its stock.
based of of this one would assume it should have about %40 hp over stock or so
which you could get from heads cam intake etc. for the same price and get... OMG TORQUE too.
and not have to wait to spool it cause believe it or not centrifugal blowers tend to spool slower than PROPERLY SIZED turbos.

5/17/2007 6:14:56 PM

if it's a 5psi kit it can only be one blower. i'm not the one trying to say otherwise, you're the one trying to talk about big blocks with f4's.

the whole original point is you said 5psi isn't even worth it. when in fact, procharger offers very decent hp gains at low boost for this particular vehicle. 5psi is good for at least ~75rwhp with a good tune.

sure, h/c/i offers about the same if not slightly better gains for comparative pricing. so? he's not trying to make a decision about what's the better option, he's asking about a car that's already been modded. torque? is it really that big of a concern with a mild v8, especially if you're nursing a 10 bolt? i think not.

if you really want to argue about it, he's still got the option to toss a good set of 6.0 heads on, a blower friendly cam, and boost it as much as the blower will do if he wants to. if he was just doing an na h/c/i setup, he'd be throwing the boost option out of the window to get competetive gains.

imo, you can't beat a good turbo setup on an LSx as the best option. that's not the topic at hand though.

5/17/2007 6:37:49 PM

Quote :

"believe it or not centrifugal blowers tend to spool slower than PROPERLY SIZED turbos."

i just noticed this. please tell me you're joking. there are very limited applications where this would hold true. i don't know how you can even begin to make a blanket comparison like that and claim to have a clue about forced induction.

5/17/2007 6:41:57 PM

ok now... you're just wrong with that last one.

compare any psi or torque curve from a centrifugally supercharged car to a turbo and you'll find that
the centrifugal doesn't make nearly as much under the curve because it builds boost as rpm goes up so you don't hit peak boost until you hit peak rpm. where as the the motor in a turbo car has to X amount of hot gas to get the train rolling but then 500 rpm later its making full boost and holding it for the next 2.5-3k rpm.



[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 6:59 PM. Reason : didn't pertain]

5/17/2007 6:58:07 PM

this deserves to be said again:

Quote :

"i don't know how you can even begin to make a blanket comparison like that and claim to have a clue about forced induction."

what you're saying is true, but it's not even close to being a rule or even a guideline. you're right that sc's usually don't make as much boost as turbos. to that, i'll say this again (scarcastic):

Quote :

"yeah, since psi is all that matters. of course cfm has nothing to do with it."

also, i don't know what world you're living in that a properly set up sc isn't making full boost well before peak rpm.

5/17/2007 7:12:35 PM

Quote :

"^^yep. with a few suspension mods, they're on par with a stock c5 i'd say in terms of getting around a road course/twisty two lane."

ive only driven one so i maybe i had a bad example, but i dont see how a stock c5 is a good example of anything that can get around a road course well

5/17/2007 8:52:11 PM

this planet. I'm sure you don't care but i REALLY design compressors in my line of work...
positive displacement compressors are the only ones that don't really "spool" they just run out of efficiency.

5/17/2007 9:07:46 PM

Quote :

"How do they handle?"

My 1995 Formula handles like a land yacht... if that's any indication. I'm not too sure how much better an LS1 handles than an LT1... Either way, easy to mod, easy to make relatively fast.

5/17/2007 9:26:51 PM

Youve never owned a land Yacht then.

But then again it is a fucking Formula.

5/17/2007 9:43:39 PM

Quote :

"but don't kid yourself. it isn't a sports car, and you will never convince it otherwise. "

...says the Miata owner.

There is a whole lot of magazine readers in this thread who don't know shit about what they speak......then again I guess its just TWW.

5/17/2007 10:31:11 PM