Quote :

"Mom urges WPB school board to ban 80 books Tuesday, July 10, 2007 Eighty books in high school library stacks are corrupting students with tales of abortion, homosexuality and atheism. That's according to a West Palm Beach mother who has appealed to the school board to remove the books from the shelves of Dreyfoos and Royal Palm Beach high schools. Laura Lopez has been fighting since September to ban these books that she says "promote sin and lies." Committees at both schools have already shot down her request. So has Superintendent Art Johnson. On Wednesday, she will ask the full school board to intervene. Palm Beach County School District staff can't recall any book challenges reaching the school board in at least seven years. Lopez admits she hasn't read a single one of the objectionable books cover-to-cover. In her appeal, she quotes scripture and blames the Columbine school shootings, drugs, bullies, teenage pregnancy and other ills on what she considers the removal of God from schools. She targets literary genres ranging from reference books to short stories. Among the books she wants removed are "Medical Ethics: Moral and Legal Conflicts in Health Care," "Warriors of God: Richard the Lionhearted and Saladin in the Third Crusade," "Coping When a Parent is Gay" and "The Cider House Rules," a John Irving novel about a rural doctor who runs an orphanage and performs illegal abortions. Lopez said the book challenges stemmed from a basic interest in the types of books in her sons' school libraries. So, she went to the computerized card catalogue and typed in the keywords "homosexuality," "abortion" and "atheism." She was shocked by the dozens of titles that popped up. "My kids are going to school to learn, not to become a homosexual or an abortion doctor or an atheist," she said. Lopez requested a meeting with Royal Palm Beach High Principal Jose Garcia. During the meeting, she didn't name any specific titles, but was generally concerned about the kinds of literature students were being exposed to in the school library, Garcia said. He told her he couldn't simply pull books off the shelves based on her complaint. Parents who want to challenge library books or classroom materials must file a written request for reconsideration with the school where the objectionable book, movie or other material was found. Then the principal convenes a committee of parents, students and staff members, which evaluates the objection, reads reviews from professional journals and consults school board policy. In Lopez's case, committees at Dreyfoos and Royal Palm, where she two teenage sons attended, found no merit in her objections. They said she did not cite specific passages to which she objected, as required, and noted that board policy dictates that materials be chosen to represent "all points of views." Rather than referencing specific pages, Lopez included mostly general comments. In her objection to "Am I Blue?: Coming out from the Silence," a collection of 18 short stories about gay and lesbian issues, Lopez wrote: "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, and not Eve and Sue." Lopez appealed the decisions of Garcia and Dreyfoos Principal Ellen Van Arsdale to Johnson. He sided with the principals. Lopez said she doesn't know what her chances are before the school board. Even within her own home, reaction is split. "My oldest son doesn't believe in God," she said. "I guess he kind of thinks I'm stupid.""

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/07/10/0710bookban.html


Question for the social conservatives:

What do you think about this?

If you disapprove, could you differentiate your beliefs from this lady's?

[Edited on July 12, 2007 at 7:58 AM. Reason : .]

7/12/2007 7:58:20 AM

I disapprove... but just because a piece of writing is a book should not give it the almighty status of immortal. Some books are shit. And I think people are afraid to call that out (besides this woman... who hasn't read the books so she needs to stfu).

It's like when you label something "art." All of a sudden, it's closed minded and ignorant to protest it... like the Mother Mary with Elephant Shit portrait that Rudy got rid of in the Art Museum in New York or the one of that guy peeing on Jesus (I imagine if it was someone peeing on MLK, the media attention would've been higher). I totally support that. Some things that are labelled "art" really aren't art at all.

7/12/2007 8:33:33 AM

What differentiates "art" from things that people call "art" but aren't? Who makes this distinction?

7/12/2007 9:11:53 AM

on an ad-hoc basis. Someone paints Mary and smears elephant shit everywhere (intentionally done to inflame and denigrate a religion)... that's not art. That's a political statement. Away with it.

While you have full right to say what you want to and call it "art", public distribution of that is not a right.



[Edited on July 12, 2007 at 9:14 AM. Reason : .]

7/12/2007 9:12:59 AM

So something cannot be both art and a political statement?

7/12/2007 9:13:55 AM

it can but

Quote :

"public distribution of that is not a right."

public distribution: shown in a museum where the museum receives public funds, libraries, etc.

[Edited on July 12, 2007 at 9:15 AM. Reason : .]

7/12/2007 9:14:33 AM

Quote :

"So something cannot be both art and a political statement?"

In my opinion thats the lowest form of art today.

Thats how Green Day won a grammy.

7/12/2007 2:29:44 PM

I think the lady should move her kid to another school

7/12/2007 2:32:03 PM

Quote :

"In my opinion thats the lowest form of art today. Thats how Green Day won a grammy"

well said.....


Why do parents want to shield their kids from the real world? Do they think they'll never find out about these things?

7/12/2007 2:32:14 PM

^but if they do have screws loose and want to shield their kids...let them put their kid in another school...dont change the whole school just for your kid

7/12/2007 2:33:04 PM

This woman is an idiot.

If she doesnt want her kids reading that, fine. But pushing your beliefs on someone else is usually a bad thing. To say SHE thinks they are bad, so NO ONE should be able to read it(without even reading it herself) is just stupid.

7/12/2007 2:48:58 PM

The part I was really interested in understanding is how this is any different from other incarnations of social conservatism.

7/12/2007 3:00:49 PM

Because you want to validate your argument that all social conservatives are bad by attaching this stupid woman to the ideas of social conservatism.

[Edited on July 12, 2007 at 3:10 PM. Reason : .]

7/12/2007 3:04:17 PM

Quote :

"If you disapprove, could you differentiate your beliefs from this lady's?"

I AM A ROBOT

ALL SITUATIONS ARE THE SAME

THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS TO RULES

7/12/2007 4:21:49 PM

Quote :

"let them put their kid in another school...dont change the whole school just for your kid"

As the clearly morally-superior people of this land blessed by our Lord God and his son Jesus Christ, it is our obligation and sacred duty to butt into people's lives and micromanage everything they do, including telling them what is and is not acceptable reading material. In fact, I move that we ban all books and magazines that are not the Bible. If the Bible alone does not satisfy your need for reading, then you are obviously an unholy heathen who has not accepted the Light of Jesus Christ. If you are a good Christian, then you have nothing to fear and nothing to hide.

7/12/2007 4:39:17 PM

next week: muslim parents demand dresscodes for all students, demand toilets are installed to face mecca, etc

or are christians the only crazy religious people

[Edited on July 12, 2007 at 4:48 PM. Reason : .]

7/12/2007 4:48:08 PM

Quote :

"Because you want to validate your argument that all social conservatives are bad by attaching this stupid woman to the ideas of social conservatism."

No, because I'm hoping that argument is incorrect. I may be wrong though... I'm not seeing much of a defense thus far.

But maybe you're not getting what I'm asking. I can't really see the difference between her wanting to impose her literary views on the entire school, and, let's say social conservatives banning gay marriage.

I'm wanting to know how someone can be against the crazy women but for other socially conservative issues that basically amount to the same thing (someone desiring to impose their beliefs on someone else)

It's an honest question, and I was looking for solid answers.

Quote :

"muslim parents demand dresscodes for all students"

This is also social conservatism, just from a different county.

Quote :

"demand toilets are installed to face mecca, etc"

This is a semi-reasonable request

[Edited on July 12, 2007 at 4:50 PM. Reason : .]

7/12/2007 4:48:48 PM

Boone, im not for this lady censoring the entire school. I also dont care if gays want to have a civil union, just dont let them sue a church, who disagrees with it, to allow them to have thier "ceremony" there...which is bound to happen.

7/12/2007 4:51:40 PM

That's perfectly reasonable.

7/12/2007 4:56:03 PM

if the toilet thing is a semi-reasonable request....lets say hypothetically for arguments sake that there was another religion that just happened to pray to the west (essentially AWAY From mecca)

how do you accomodate both that religion and the muslims? i dont think you really can

7/12/2007 4:57:50 PM

Quote :

"I also dont care if gays want to have a civil union, just dont let them sue a church, who disagrees with it, to allow them to have thier "ceremony" there...which is bound to happen. "

Wait, why can't we make it so that it's not bound to happen? I mean when you get married in the U.S. two things typically happen
1) You and your spouse sign a piece of paper stating you are now legally married
2) You and your spouse go through a religious ceremony called a wedding

So why can't we make it so that gays are allowed to enter into a secular marriage, but churches that don't want to marry gays don't have to perform a religious wedding ceremony on them?

Besides, I don't hear about Jews or Muslims suing Christian churches for refusing to marry them in a Jewish/Muslim wedding, nor do I hear about blacks/jews/whoever else suing salisburyboy's church for refusing to marry them, so why would gays be suing anti-gay churches for not wanting to marry them? Why would they just not want to get married in a church that doesn't want to marry them?

[Edited on July 12, 2007 at 5:04 PM. Reason : .]

7/12/2007 5:01:28 PM

Quote :

"demand toilets are installed to face mecca"

you mean "demand toilets installed NOT to face nor to have the back to mecca."

not that it matters, just an fyi.

7/12/2007 5:17:10 PM

^yeah basically...i was thinking of that story about the prison a few months ago where the prisoners demanded some type of full plumbing renovation in order to accomodate their religious beliefs

and granted prisoners != students

but i think theres some type of parallel as far as how far govt should or shouldnt go to accomodate people

7/12/2007 5:23:23 PM

Any takers, other than the Mecca tangent that's already been discussed in its own thread?

Or you can take a crack at this:

Quote :

"Hindu prayer in the Senate draws protesters WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Three protesters disrupted a prayer by a Hindu chaplain Thursday at the opening of a Senate hearing, calling it an abomination and shouting slogans about Jesus Christ. It was the first time the daily prayer that opens Senate proceedings was said by a Hindu chaplain. Capitol police said two women and one man were arrested and charged with causing a disruption in the public gallery of the Senate. The three started shouting when guest Chaplain Rajan Zed, a Hindu from Nevada, began his prayer. Video Watch the disruption » They shouted "No Lord but Jesus Christ" and "There's only one true God," and used the term "abomination." Religious figures from various faiths have said the prayer, which is normally recited by a Christian chaplain. Barry Lynn, executive director of religious watchdog group Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said the protest showed the intolerance of the "religious right." "I don't think the Senate should open with prayers, but if it's going to happen, the invocations ought to reflect the diversity of the American people," Lynn said in a statement. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid had invited Zed. "I think it speaks well of our country that someone representing the faith of about a billion people comes here and can speak in communication with our heavenly father regarding peace," he said after the disruption."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/12/prayer.protest.reut/index.html

.

[Edited on July 13, 2007 at 11:29 AM. Reason : .]

7/13/2007 11:26:37 AM

why dont you tell us what YOU think

7/13/2007 11:36:35 AM

I don't see the difference; I thought I made that apparent already.

I'm hoping someone can rationally argue that there is a difference.

7/13/2007 12:48:18 PM

Quote :

""demand toilets are installed to face mecca""

just make your approach to the bowl perpendicular to the traditional angle of attack.

7/13/2007 2:05:36 PM

Quote :

"In my opinion thats the lowest form of art today. Thats how Green Day won a grammy"

Aha, that may be the worst blanket statement against politically driven art I've ever heard.

You just lumped Fugazi in with Green Day in one sentence.


[Edited on July 13, 2007 at 2:10 PM. Reason : asdf]

7/13/2007 2:07:43 PM

Quote :

"Weapons not food, not homes, not shoes Not need, just feed the war cannibal animal I walk tha corner to tha rubble that used to be a library Linin' to the mine cemetery now What we don't know keeps tha contracts alive an movin' They don't gotta burn tha books they just remove 'em While arms warehouses fill as quick as tha cells Rally round tha family, pockets full of shells Rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells They rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells"

7/13/2007 3:35:04 PM