Quote :

"Bush's conference, chaired by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, would bring together Israel, the Palestinian Authority and unspecified "neighbors in the region," but it could be less inclusive than the last major U.S.-sponsored Arab-Israeli conference, which was organized by President George H.W. Bush in Madrid in 1991. Unlike his father, the president invited only those that "recognize Israel's right to exist," seemingly excluding potent actors in the region such as Iran and Hamas, the Palestinian militant group."

(emphasis added)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/16/AR2007071600063.html?hpid=topnews

It doesn't seem like it would be much of a peace summit if those who are the main impediments to peace aren't even invited to the table.

7/17/2007 1:48:52 PM

That's our Dubya!!!!

7/17/2007 1:52:43 PM

Why invite them? THey've shown time after time to agree to a deal only to break it later. Maybe the groups coming to the table can discuss a new strategy: "Peace through strength..."

I remember that working somewhat well during the Reagan years of the Cold War...

7/17/2007 2:10:24 PM

Hamas and Iran (under it's current leadership) have no interest in peace talks. They want to destroy Israel.

A peace accord between Israel and Fatah would be a good first step and will further isolate Hamas, an organization which needs to be eradicated from the region.

7/17/2007 2:15:54 PM

Quote :

"It doesn't seem like it would be much of a peace summit if those who are the main impediments to peace aren't even invited to the table."

1) You can't negotiate with someone who has already decided you need to die.

2) What sort of peace would be negotiated if they don't believe isreal has a right to exist? Any peace talk which includes them and isreal would be dead from the start.

7/17/2007 3:08:59 PM

Quote :

"It doesn't seem like it would be much of a peace summit if those who are the main impediments to peace aren't even invited to the table"

i agree it doesnt...but it also doesnt seem like any type of peace summit or talks are going to change the warped assbackwards suicidal views of militant muslim groups like hamas

^,^^,^^^ basically

7/17/2007 3:09:07 PM

Quote :

""Peace through strength...""

Seems to have worked really well in Iraq and Afghanistan.....

Perhaps if the administration was actually able to get Saudi Arabia, Jordan and/or Egypt to actively participate, it might have a chance to do some good.

And the US heading up peace talks in the Middle East might seem a little ironic given our current position.

7/17/2007 3:11:56 PM

actually after reading the article, it doesn't seem like that bad of an idea, but as it mentions, it might be too late for the plan as many palestinian people are losing faith in their leader, and hamas is coming on strong.

7/17/2007 3:28:24 PM

Nuke them into a parking lot.

7/17/2007 3:38:59 PM

Quote :

"Nuke them into a parking lot."

Israel or the rest of em?

7/17/2007 3:44:13 PM

Well the problem is that Israel doesn't want to negotiate at all. They just want to make peace without doing anything to hold up their side of the table. Its a two-way street.

For starters, maybe Israel could pay reparations to the region to, in essence, "buy" some of their right to exist. Thats the most logical idea for peace talks.

7/17/2007 3:56:08 PM

^ They've had various opportunites for peace, but they refuse to go back to their pre-1967 borders.

Of course, who knows what the arab world will do once Israel bends for them.

7/17/2007 4:06:15 PM

^ They gave up the west bank and gaza, no peace. They gave them their own governmetn and their own sovereign territories, and still, they send in madmen with bombs strapped on and blow up kids in a pizza parlor.


Obviously, Israel is the one who doesn't want peace.

7/17/2007 4:45:48 PM

Quote :

"They gave up the west bank"

Really, they did?

Israel has been expanding its settlements in the WB since 1967 NON STOP, even during periods of relative peace and even during peace accords, in contravention of all international laws and even the US President's wishes.

And with the blessings of whoever the incumbemt Israeli leader is.

Learn your facts.

7/17/2007 4:50:04 PM

i was invited over to haifa a few months ago - definitely going to make it over there someday - sounds fun

7/17/2007 4:50:05 PM

Quote :

"For starters, maybe Israel could pay reparations to the region to, in essence, "buy" some of their right to exist. "

You gotta be kidding. Probably the most retarded thing I have read here... ever.

Maybe the Arabs should pay reparations to Israel for trying to wipe them out on more than one occasion.

7/17/2007 5:47:28 PM

Quote :

"Obviously, Israel is the one who doesn't want peace."

I wouldn't say that they "don't" want peace, but they sure aren't leading the way on it.

7/17/2007 5:53:10 PM

here is a thought

there will never be peace in that region

one side has to blink and you know that shit wont happen because neither one wants to be a pussy

7/17/2007 7:11:42 PM

yeah persians are freaking hard headed too

7/17/2007 7:16:30 PM

Quote :

"Maybe the Arabs should pay reparations to Israel for trying to wipe them out on more than one occasion."

Maybe Israel should go back to Europe. This is insane. Imagine if Mexicans or somebody else took California and expected peace right after. We wouldn't recognize them or negotiate until all of California was back. But we somehow expect a religious culture to act completely different about their holy land.



At the same time we go apeshit in this country about people who COME PEACEFULLY to our land, heaven forbid take part of it over, kick us out and expect peace without even giving it back.

The arab nation has bended over backwards and is the only side working towards peace because they aren't even asking for everything back. Pre 67 would bring peace to the region until Israel invades again. Thats like if we only asked for San Francisco on up back. GENEROUS.

7/18/2007 11:39:21 AM

Quote :

"The arab nation has bended over backwards and is the only side working towards peace because they aren't even asking for everything back."

I think bended over backwards is an overstatement, but right, they are asking for their land back, and haven't been given it back from Israel. Israel has overstepped its bounds. The US, the UK and pretty much the rest of the western world have been turning a blind eye to what it's doing. (Granted that might be because Great Britain and the US were the ones to redraw the map after WWII, but I digress...)

7/18/2007 11:47:41 AM

I think bended over backwards is grammatically incorrect as well as an overstatement.

7/18/2007 1:08:51 PM

^^ should we give up land that we took as the bounty of war? What is the statue of limitations on this?

7/18/2007 1:50:35 PM

Sinai

7/18/2007 2:02:50 PM

Quote :

"should we give up land that we took as the bounty of war? What is the statue of limitations on this?"

Point well taken. I'm not necessarily convinced that this is the same thing as war bounty though, because, correct me if I'm wrong (I know that you will) there has never been a declared war between Israel and Palestine.

7/18/2007 2:03:09 PM

I never understood this declare/actual war shit. If you invade, isn't it war?


And the declared war is the nation of palestine v. Israel. THe palestinians and hamas are the ones continuously saying that Israel will be wiped off the face of the map. They certainly have declared and have been fighting war for some time now.

7/18/2007 2:30:30 PM

Quote :

"Maybe Israel should go back to Europe."

Wow. Go read a book.

7/18/2007 2:36:20 PM

Israel is just as bad as Hamas if not worse. So maybe they shouldn't be invited either

[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 3:21 PM. Reason : fda]

7/18/2007 3:21:06 PM

^ you're an idiot.

7/18/2007 3:32:14 PM

Quote :

""Maybe Israel should go back to Europe.""

Maybe Saudi Arabia should go back to New York.

7/18/2007 4:00:18 PM

^^you are a moron if you think otherwise. Israel is the aggressor. Israel breaks the peace with their missles and artillery fire and their incursions.

7/18/2007 4:53:26 PM

maybe hitler was on to something by killing off all the jews...

7/18/2007 5:00:14 PM

Maybe some of you should register for a HI class before the late registration period gets here.

7/18/2007 6:25:26 PM

A+ thread...

Quote :

"Maybe some of you should register for a HI class before the late registration period gets here."

Take your own advice, and maybe learn what sarcasm is as well.


Israel exists because they had the will and the might to fight off the Arab world on more than one occasion. They were strong, the Arabs were weak. Might makes right.

7/18/2007 7:07:14 PM

Quote :

"Israel exists because they had the will and the might of the west to fight off the Arab world on more than one occasion. They were weak, the Arabs were strong. West makes right."

there, fixed it for you.

7/18/2007 9:56:51 PM

^ ^^ both of you are fucking simpletons.

7/18/2007 10:04:05 PM

Meaningless, ineffectual gestures are now a property of good leadership.

7/18/2007 10:42:52 PM

Quote :

"Israel exists because they had the will and the might to fight off the Arab world on more than one occasion. They were strong, the Arabs were weak. Might makes right."

...

Wow.

7/18/2007 10:50:50 PM

We should give all of America back to the Indians; oh wait we are they're called Mexicans.

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 12:53 AM. Reason : .]

7/19/2007 12:52:59 AM

i heard you fucked your trailer trash mother in the ass.

7/19/2007 1:00:02 AM

Quote :

""Israel exists because they had the will and the might of the west to fight off the Arab world on more than one occasion. They were weak, the Arabs were strong. West makes right.""

Up until the early 70's Israel received very little support from the US.

How much military support did they receive in '48? How about in the 50's? It wasn't until the Arab states started to align themselves more closely with the USSR did Israel start to receive massive amounts of military aid from the US, and this aid really skyrocketed during and after the Yom Kippur war.

Quote :

"Wow."

What's so wow about it? Is it not yhe truth? Israel exists because they can/will/have taken up arms and been successful in defeating their enemies/neighbors. In the real world, strength=power. You aren't strong enough to win a war, you get fucked.

-

Quote :

"i heard you fucked your trailer trash mother in the ass. ... both of you are fucking simpletons."

Someone just trolling a thread and spouting off shit like that is calling anyone else a simpleton? Right.

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 3:03 AM. Reason : .]

7/19/2007 3:03:03 AM

Hitler says give peace a chance. It worked out pretty good for him for a few years.

7/19/2007 4:11:19 AM

Godwins Law!

7/19/2007 10:26:21 AM

Olmert has already responded saying Israel will not discuss for now the final settlement issues, i.e., borders, refugees, Jerusalem.

Israel sure wants peace, doesn't it?

These are delaying tactics that Israel has been using for several years now.

WHY? To establish "facts on the ground."

So that the Zionist illegal settlements in the WB can get bigger and bigger, thus forcing them to become permanent, and also for all the walls and barriers that have been put up to become permanent.

In this way, a few years down the road, the Palestinians will be given half of the WB with portions cut out of it and walls snaking through it.

7/19/2007 2:34:12 PM

Quote :

"What's so wow about it? Is it not yhe truth? Israel exists because they can/will/have taken up arms and been successful in defeating their enemies/neighbors. In the real world, strength=power. You aren't strong enough to win a war, you get fucked."

So are you encouraging the Arabs to become strong enough to destroy Israel?

7/19/2007 2:48:18 PM

Quote :

"Godwins Law!"

Come on, it's a thread about Israel and war. It's not like I'm injecting it into a discussion
of tax reform or something. Whatever.

7/19/2007 8:40:31 PM

D&L already breached Godwin's law long ago in this thread.

Quote :

"Israel exists because they had the will and the might to fight off the Arab world on more than one occasion. They were strong, the Arabs were weak. Might makes right."

Might doesn't make right, but it doesn't help that the arab states haven't been able to get their act together enough to actually present a unified front on any concept other than the fact that Israel should be destroyed.

7/20/2007 5:11:55 PM

so what is godwins law anyways?

7/20/2007 6:02:42 PM

Quote :

"Might doesn't make right"

Sorry, but you're wrong. Might does make right. Just check, I dunno, all of recorded history to verify this fact. When you are strong you make the rules and dictate to others, when you are weak you don't.

7/21/2007 5:17:06 PM

^ what definition are you using for "right"?

"might makes right" could be something that a dictator/oppressor (person or country) could use, but that doesn't mean their actions are right, i.e., morally and/or legally justified.

or perhaps you agree/side with the oppressors? if not, stop saying "might makes right".

are you saying unfortunately that's just how the world works, or are you actually justifying oppression and wrongdoings when done by those in power and saying that that's ok/good?

7/21/2007 6:10:29 PM