then should women who get illegal abortions (after Roe v. Wade is overturned) be sentenced to 25 years to life? After all, it IS premeditated. They thought about the murder they wanted to do before hand and went to go do it. And should women who do multiple illegal abortions be subject to capital punishment? After all, they'd be guilty of multiple murders!

8/1/2007 3:19:41 PM

Another of God's gems!

8/1/2007 3:21:44 PM

This proves God is concerned about abortion.

Quote :

"after Roe v. Wade is overturned"

A divine prediction, huh?

8/1/2007 3:23:16 PM

Well if it's premeditated and considered murder they should get the death penalty like anyone else convicted of murder. If you don't do this then you're saying that unborn babies are not quite people, which makes your case for abortion stronger.


All in all I say make it legal but give people incentive to not have children that they can't afford.

8/1/2007 3:25:45 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20010696/site/newsweek

8/1/2007 3:26:03 PM

That documentary actually seems pretty clever.

8/1/2007 3:29:05 PM

keep abortion semi-legal, but tax the shit out of those who have them, or maybe a stair step system where you have one OK, but the more you have, the more you pay

Abortion isn't inherently bad imo, it just gets that way when used as birth control.

8/1/2007 3:49:49 PM

great idea, cause most people who have abortions do it cause they can't afford a kid, better to let them have a kid and go on welfare because the abortion tax was too high


abortion should be encouraged among low income, low education people - keeps crime down, poverty down, and controls the population.

[Edited on August 1, 2007 at 3:54 PM. Reason : purely economic reasoning]

8/1/2007 3:52:55 PM

Quote :

"most people who have abortions do it cause they can't afford a kid"

Is that really true? Any stats to back it up.

I think most people who have abortions use them as birth control.

8/1/2007 3:55:15 PM

Quote :

" abortion should be encouraged among low income, low education people - keeps crime down, poverty down, and controls the population. "

prevention should be encourage. i don't find abortions to be morally wrong so much as it is bad for a persons body. teach them to use birth control properly and the need for abortions plummets dramatically.

8/1/2007 3:57:01 PM

they got pregnant, couldn't afford/didnt want/weren't ready to have kids, doesn't much matter - taxing it would make it less attainable for lower income people, which would create even more finanicial burden for those people once they have to support an (unwanted?) child

abortion would become another way for wealthy, irresponsible dumbasses to get out of responsibility

[Edited on August 1, 2007 at 3:59 PM. Reason : ]

8/1/2007 3:57:59 PM

http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html

Who's having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".

Who's having abortions (income)?
Women with family incomes less than $15,000 obtain 28.7% of all abortions; Women with family incomes between $15,000 and $29,999 obtain 19.5%; Women with family incomes between $30,000 and $59,999 obtain 38.0%; Women with family incomes over $60,000 obtain 13.8%.

Why women have abortions
1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).

At what gestational ages are abortions performed:
52% of all abortions occur before the 9th week of pregnancy, 25% happen between the 9th & 10th week, 12% happen between the 11th and 12th week, 6% happen between the 13th & 15th week, 4% happen between the 16th & 20th week, and 1% of all abortions (16,450/yr.) happen after the 20th week of pregnancy.

Likelihood of abortion:
An estimated 43% of all women will have at least 1 abortion by the time they are 45 years old. 47% of all abortions are performed on women who have had at least one previous abortion.

8/1/2007 4:01:12 PM

wow 43%

damn, id like to see the demographic breakdown of that, but I can't believe that almost half of women have had an abortion. i would have guessed 5-10% and that seems like a lot. I don't know anyone that's had one (or told me about it)

8/1/2007 4:05:11 PM

Clearly we should put 43% of all women in prison.

8/1/2007 4:08:06 PM

Quote :

"(or told me about it)"

thats why you dont hear about it

no woman will tell you she has had one

8/1/2007 4:09:21 PM

Quote :

"47% of all abortions are performed on women who have had at least one previous abortion. "

terrible.

8/1/2007 4:13:08 PM

^why is that terrible?

8/1/2007 4:17:46 PM

well youd think that women would learn after the first one

exception: medical reason or deformed fetus again

8/1/2007 4:20:50 PM

Quote :

"why is that terrible?"

b/c it shows (save very few exceptions) that they use it as a form of birth control.

8/1/2007 4:24:10 PM

Quote :

"save very few exceptions"

you mean 53%?

8/1/2007 4:25:23 PM

no, i;m talking about the women who have had multiple for medical reasons included in that 47%.

8/1/2007 4:26:08 PM

or maybe their form of birth control didn't work.

i mean if 53% of all abortions are performed on people who have never had a previous abortion, then that would suggest that close to half only get one abortion. That doesn't seem like they're using it as (at least primary) birth control.

8/1/2007 4:29:37 PM

Quote :

"b/c it shows (save very few exceptions) that they use it as a form of birth control."

and why is this terrible?

[Edited on August 1, 2007 at 4:38 PM. Reason : ...]

8/1/2007 4:37:36 PM

If nothing else, it's a lot more trouble than other forms of birth control.

8/1/2007 4:39:03 PM

Quote :

"That doesn't seem like they're using it as (at least primary) birth control."

primary, secondary, tertiary.....it doesn't matter imo, something of that magnitude isn't meant to be taken so lightly.

^^if you really can't see why, there's no use trying to explain.

[Edited on August 1, 2007 at 4:40 PM. Reason : .]

8/1/2007 4:39:35 PM

The study isn't very clear on when these abortions are performed either. Morning after pills and the like are fairly different from surgical procedures imo.

8/1/2007 4:40:10 PM

Quote :

"^^if you really can't see why, there's no use trying to explain."

please elaborate.

8/1/2007 4:47:37 PM

nah...see the quote box in your post.

8/1/2007 4:53:36 PM

^so you're argument is "Abortion, used as birth control, is bad because I say it is." Is this accurate?

[Edited on August 1, 2007 at 4:59 PM. Reason : ...]

8/1/2007 4:59:15 PM

Quote :

"or maybe their form of birth control didn't work."

or maybe people are stupid and/or horny dogs.

you know how it is... in the heat of the moment, a lot of people don't bother with it if not handily available. and i really can't see how people who claim that their condoms or bc pills failed can be believed. again, either they are mentally retarded, or are just lying.

if a combination of the rhythm method and coitus interruptus has worked for me 100% of the time for 2 1/3 years, i am sure non-retarded people can make condoms, pills, and iuds work for them.

8/1/2007 5:08:13 PM

Quote :

"if a combination of the rhythm method and coitus interruptus has worked for me 100% of the time for 2 1/3 years, i am sure non-retarded people can make condoms, pills, and iuds work for them. "

because the actual failure rates of these contraceptives are LIES

8/1/2007 5:32:04 PM

and you are an insider from the contraceptive industry?

people are stupid and uncivilized... that's far more likely than what you said, and is documented!!!


[Edited on August 1, 2007 at 5:35 PM. Reason : ]

8/1/2007 5:33:33 PM

condoms break, the pill sometimes doesn't work. you can't deny that.

what does being civilized have to do with it?

[Edited on August 1, 2007 at 5:38 PM. Reason : .]

8/1/2007 5:37:27 PM

Quote :

"people are stupid and uncivilized"

either that, and/or people never want to take responsibility for their own actions

8/1/2007 5:38:51 PM

or they just know that they can't support a baby (much less afford to be pregnant)

8/1/2007 5:40:36 PM

This is why virtual sex will be superior.

Either way, advancing technology should eliminate the need for abortions.

8/1/2007 5:41:25 PM

^^its too bad they never consider those type things before they repeatedly have unprotected sex when old girl knows damn well approximately what time of the month it is

8/1/2007 5:44:22 PM

i don't know why you think most of these abortions are from people having unprotected sex.

i've certainly had a scare or two in my life while on using a condom or she's on the pill. these methods aren't 100%

8/1/2007 5:45:35 PM

Quote :

"i don't know why you think most of these abortions are from people having unprotected sex"

are you saying the pill and condom are less than 50% effective? i think its clearly obvious that most abortions are from people having unprotected sex

8/1/2007 5:50:17 PM

check that math again. that would assume that people have sex once in their lives.

8/1/2007 5:52:04 PM

Quote :

"i don't know why you think most of these abortions are from people having unprotected sex."

and i don't know why you think that most of these abortions are from people having protected sex.

Quote :

"these methods aren't 100%"

do you always look at extremes? they aren't 100%, but neither are what you want us to believe (even though you haven't given is a figure). they SHOULD be 95% effective if used PROPERLY and EVERY TIME.

but as i said, people are stupid and uncivilized. so either they don't know how to use these things, or they don't use them.

8/1/2007 5:53:48 PM

i've heard 99% for most methods. but say it's 95%. that would mean 1 out of 20 times someone has sex, that form of birth control isn't working. that would be a pretty frequent occurence for most sexually active couples. certainly enough that it would seem reasonable that someone could use protection every time and still have a failure of birth control that results in a pregnancy.

8/1/2007 6:02:37 PM

i wish we had cloning

i'd clone myself and kill myself for fun

8/1/2007 6:08:23 PM

I'd clone you, then kill you and leave your clone.

And I wouldn't tell your clone about TWW.

8/1/2007 7:23:03 PM

Quote :

"i've heard 99% for most methods. but say it's 95%. that would mean 1 out of 20 times someone has sex, that form of birth control isn't working. that would be a pretty frequent occurence for most sexually active couples. certainly enough that it would seem reasonable that someone could use protection every time and still have a failure of birth control that results in a pregnancy."

surriously. i mean i thought condoms were supposed to be 2-3% ineffective. you can double up on measures to help out, but it isnt like you can just start taking the pill immediately or force some girl to do so.

8/1/2007 7:35:06 PM

Damn, there's a whole lot of stupid in this thread

Quote :

"i've heard 99% for most methods. but say it's 95%. that would mean 1 out of 20 times someone has sex, that form of birth control isn't working."

[NO], when they say that a form of birth control is 95% effective, they mean that in A YEAR'S SPAN 5% of women using that form of birth control exclusively will get pregnant. Some forms of birth control have been tested to be 99.9% effective, so your point is moot.

Quote :

"abortion would become another way for wealthy, irresponsible dumbasses to get out of responsibility"

As opposed to poor, irresponsible dumbasses who undertake the majority of abortions in this country?

Quote :

"The study isn't very clear on when these abortions are performed either. Morning after pills and the like are fairly different from surgical procedures imo."

What? The morning after pill is NOT AN ABORTION. It prevents pregnancy, but it has no effect on a woman who is already pregnant. Get out of this thread if you don't know the difference between the morning after pill and a drug-induced abortion.


[Edited on August 1, 2007 at 7:40 PM. Reason : 2]

8/1/2007 7:38:06 PM

Quote :

" What? The morning after pill is NOT AN ABORTION. It prevents pregnancy, but it has no effect on a woman who is already pregnant. Get out of this thread if you don't know the difference between the morning after pill and a drug-induced abortion. "

The website and study I linked earlier lists the morning after pill as a form of abortion. I guess you need to correct them?

8/1/2007 11:15:47 PM

this thread is a perfect reason for why I no longer believe in you

8/1/2007 11:31:00 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk6t_tdOkwo

pwned

8/1/2007 11:35:53 PM

^^^I'd be glad to correct you. Pregnancy, by definition, begins with the implantation of the blastocyst in the uterine lining, approximately 5-10 days after fertilization of the egg. Any doctor will tell you that.

From your own link:

Quote :

"Morning after pill Large doses of existing birth control pills (or another drug levonorgestrel, known as Plan B) are given up to 72 hours after intercourse to attempt to prevent the implantation of the embryo. A second dose is given 12 hours after the first one. The action of these large doses of hormones birth control pills work to prevent ovulation and/or fertilization."

Once implantation has occured, the morning after pill has no effect. Therefore, it is simply a form of contraception, not a form of abortion. If you want to say that pregnancy starts at fertilization, then birth control pills are forms of abortion, since they have the same effect as the morning after pill.

[Edited on August 1, 2007 at 11:50 PM. Reason : 2]

8/1/2007 11:47:48 PM